I use the lock. Any change is going to meet resistance, remember people objecting to seat belts and airbags? My mim and locked 63 is a very fine tool and a pleasure to shoot.
So what's the hit by the critics on newer S&W revolvers?
- Thread starter CSG
- Start date
I use the lock. Any change is going to meet resistance, remember people objecting to seat belts and airbags? My mim and locked 63 is a very fine tool and a pleasure to shoot.
So far, there are no other issues being discussed in this thread. Just "they don't make them like they used to" and the criticism of the IL and MIM parts.
I'll tell you, right now, my biggest criticism is lack of availability (locally) of new or used S&W revolvers. Plenty of Charter Arms, Taurus, and Ruger and some more obscure S&W's in the big hunting calibers. But J frame snubs? Forget it. All I've seen is online and over MSRP for new and plain overpriced for used.
I'll tell you, right now, my biggest criticism is lack of availability (locally) of new or used S&W revolvers. Plenty of Charter Arms, Taurus, and Ruger and some more obscure S&W's in the big hunting calibers. But J frame snubs? Forget it. All I've seen is online and over MSRP for new and plain overpriced for used.
littleriver1
US Veteran
Could some one please direct me to an actual report of an IL failure. I don't want some one who said it failed. I would like to see a confirmed. I would also like to know what happens when it fails. I have never seen that eather. I'm guessing it locks by itself while firing and stays locked. In a do or die gun fight it locks and you die. I have never seen a report of that eather. I'm not being a smartzzz here, I really want to know. I don't post much so consider this a newbe question.
Cal44
Member
nachogrande
Member
IL'S
I think more problems arise from them working too well. you lock the gun, then can't find the key when you need it. I now own my 2nd IL and don't have the key for it, thank GOD. don't think I'll be buying another set of keys anytime soon. I got enough trouble keeping track of my car keys and need MORE keys like I need more remote controls in the house.
I think more problems arise from them working too well. you lock the gun, then can't find the key when you need it. I now own my 2nd IL and don't have the key for it, thank GOD. don't think I'll be buying another set of keys anytime soon. I got enough trouble keeping track of my car keys and need MORE keys like I need more remote controls in the house.
Doug M.
Member
*
There used to be a huge sticky on the forum with page upon page of those, from members and other credible sources. Ayoob collected a lot of the reports because he has access to a lot of sources of information. When the forum changed software a few years ago, that string got lost. It's a shame, as it was a great resource. The failures as I have understood them to be are just as you hypothesize.
I would not be surprised to see this string get locked as most of these about the lock tend to go to hell in a handcart in a hurry, and there is a sticky about discussing it somewhere (at the top of at least a few of the sub-forums).
All of my guns are either ready for immediate use, or locked away empty/disabled. I don't have kids, and none come in the house, so I don't have to worry about that issue. If I did have to address that, the only workable answer is to wear one, and lock up the others. The lock serves no purpose that cannot be addressed by other more appropriate means. It potentially interferes with the life saving use of a critical tool. I recall a member of this forum, or maybe one of the few others I read, finding out after carrying one of his revolvers with a lock that he had been carrying it locked for days. No thanks.
QC in general: many manufacturers, of many things, do a horrid job of checking product before they send it. I have had a couple of higher end 1911s that simply did not work for reasons that should have been caught in pre-shipping inspections and testing. (This is stuff that was apparent in dry firing, on $2000 pistols. What a crock.) I have had cars had multiple flaws resulting in recalls and campaigns. I drove a first year Mack CH that was a complete disaster, with all sorts of stupid stuff wrong with it. I don't think that there is any question S&W has had some issues - folks report them here regularly. Some of them are utterly inexcusable. They are not unique, unfortunately.
littleriver1
US Veteran
Wow, thanks now I have to run to the other room and dry fire mine.
Similar threads
I posted a thread on this about a week ago and answered to another one today. The general consensus was:
There's nothing wrong with MIM parts
The lock really doesn't affect anything
Us traditionalists don't like either, but that is just our own tastes. Somebody could just as soon say, "I don't want those double actions" or "I don't want removable firing pins" 'cause they ain't no good.
I posted a thread on this about a week ago and answered to another one today. The general consensus was:
There's nothing wrong with MIM parts
The lock really doesn't affect anything
Us traditionalists don't like either, but that is just our own tastes. Somebody could just as soon say, "I don't want those double actions" or "I don't want removable firing pins" 'cause they ain't no good.
rebel0994
Member
I don't like the looks of the lock , But I have other guns with them and have not had a problem, and MIM parts make no difference to me at all, My thing is, I don't have all the old Smiths I want yet!
pmosley
Member
If inspected properly (cosmetically and mechanically) there are cost savings to be gained from buying used.
Many buy these little Airweights, shoot less than a box of ammo and place them strategically about for home defense.
Financial need, major life changes or perhaps sheer boredom may lead to the selling of a "LNIB" gun, sometimes at bargin prices.
Last edited:
Can the MIM triggers be rounded/smoothed like a forged or cast one can?
I don't like the serrations or sharp edges on my M29-10.
After 50 rounds of Magnums Friday before last, my trigger finger was literally just short of bleeding.
I wouldn't do it myself, I'd take it to a smith. I want it like the surface on my GP100. Smooth and rounded.
I don't like the serrations or sharp edges on my M29-10.
After 50 rounds of Magnums Friday before last, my trigger finger was literally just short of bleeding.
I wouldn't do it myself, I'd take it to a smith. I want it like the surface on my GP100. Smooth and rounded.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
You folks may wish to drum me out of the outfit when I admit this, but here goes: due to financial constraints (my whole working life in underpaid care-giving professions, and now retired on Social Security) I have never, ever bought a new S&W revolver or pistol, or Ruger revolver. I've bought from people I trusted, mostly LGS, and inspected the weapons carefully before buying. Every one has been a bargain and performed without any problems whatever. I don't worry about MIM parts, and don't like the idea of the lock on principle but could remove it. I'd like to be able to buy new guns. But the used-gun market has been really good to me.
I'll be one of the few to admit I dislike MIM parts and the "lines" of the new generation revolvers based solely on aesthetics. I also know Safe-T-Hammer meant well with their IL, but I always purchased trigger/cable locks for all of my firearms anyway and am a big believer in the K.I.S.S. principle.
If S&W Holdings Corp. trusted us to be adults and got rid of the IL and made the MIM parts cosmetically identical to the older forged ones (i.e. no casting/sprue marks or hollows/scallops), I could live with the internal firing pins.
Aside from that, I don't think the newer revolvers are in any way mechanically "inferior" to the older generation ones from a quality perspective.
If S&W Holdings Corp. trusted us to be adults and got rid of the IL and made the MIM parts cosmetically identical to the older forged ones (i.e. no casting/sprue marks or hollows/scallops), I could live with the internal firing pins.
Aside from that, I don't think the newer revolvers are in any way mechanically "inferior" to the older generation ones from a quality perspective.
qrachel
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2013
- Messages
- 468
- Reaction score
- 235
Wasn't Going to Post, What The Hey . . .
Hi: Interesting thread and really some of the best of what draws me to the S&W Forum.
Hi:
I don't think there's a simple resonse here, though the effects of a cultural and social perception by many members is generally reflected in the nay or yea columns of dialog. Like most of them, I've got my biases and I'm quite attached to them; so, as you read remember that I'm "one of those people" - whomever you are talking about.
Were the old days that much better in terms of fit, form and function of handguns? I suspect that today's 24 hour connected world has a bunch to do with the answers we hear, plus market and design/mfg realities also play into this. I'm pretty hard nosed about the level and consistency of quality today but it would take a ton of work to do the longitudinal research to make highly informed statements (and I've tried but insider status is going to be required to do that), but sure enough there's plenty of information one has access to make a great case one way or the other anecdotally.
For me, I don't pine for the past and find much in the current handgun products that really impresses and causes me to spend my Hamilton's regularly on shooting. Further, I going to spend my time enjoying the present right now, and right now, and . . . etc. and live into a future that's all about what we can be freed from the past. Heck, I was there and while I enjoyed it there's absolutely no desire to go back or cling to the oldies but goodies. I do love great historical artifacts including some guns, like a German made Sig or a nice -4 or -5 629 and there's a couple Rugers like the Single Six two cylinder 22LR/22mag pistol, which I bought for myself as a teen and the Buntline my older friend let me shoot and pack around on the ranch - wish I still had them; they shot great and had a lot of history.
MIM shim, IL what the _ell . . . my new 617, 686 and P220 Equinox are just the best and shoot beautifully. If only I were the markswoman they are capable of supporting. Well, I'm working on that.
So, there you have it from Hollywood, CA. Now start the drum beat, but please spell my name correctly.
Take great care all,
Rachel
Hi: Interesting thread and really some of the best of what draws me to the S&W Forum.
Hi:
I don't think there's a simple resonse here, though the effects of a cultural and social perception by many members is generally reflected in the nay or yea columns of dialog. Like most of them, I've got my biases and I'm quite attached to them; so, as you read remember that I'm "one of those people" - whomever you are talking about.
Were the old days that much better in terms of fit, form and function of handguns? I suspect that today's 24 hour connected world has a bunch to do with the answers we hear, plus market and design/mfg realities also play into this. I'm pretty hard nosed about the level and consistency of quality today but it would take a ton of work to do the longitudinal research to make highly informed statements (and I've tried but insider status is going to be required to do that), but sure enough there's plenty of information one has access to make a great case one way or the other anecdotally.
For me, I don't pine for the past and find much in the current handgun products that really impresses and causes me to spend my Hamilton's regularly on shooting. Further, I going to spend my time enjoying the present right now, and right now, and . . . etc. and live into a future that's all about what we can be freed from the past. Heck, I was there and while I enjoyed it there's absolutely no desire to go back or cling to the oldies but goodies. I do love great historical artifacts including some guns, like a German made Sig or a nice -4 or -5 629 and there's a couple Rugers like the Single Six two cylinder 22LR/22mag pistol, which I bought for myself as a teen and the Buntline my older friend let me shoot and pack around on the ranch - wish I still had them; they shot great and had a lot of history.
MIM shim, IL what the _ell . . . my new 617, 686 and P220 Equinox are just the best and shoot beautifully. If only I were the markswoman they are capable of supporting. Well, I'm working on that.
So, there you have it from Hollywood, CA. Now start the drum beat, but please spell my name correctly.
Take great care all,
Rachel
I've seen people trash MIM parts on Smith's fairly regular, then they slip and you find out they have guns with MIM. I guess it's ok, THEN.
Funny that you should mention that... I was just thinking about how over in the semi-auto forum people highly praise the 3rd gens metal frame pistols as being "tanks" when it comes to being tough and reliable... when they have they have their share MIM parts as well.
I will not buy any new revolver from S&W until they take that lock out and be done with it. I sold my 625-8 back to the dealer and showed him how cheap that spring is on that lock. It's thin. And it broke. I have 3 m64s for now.
Q. C .
Fact: When shopping for A 637 J Frame I passed on first two I looked at . Barrel alignment was off .
Fact: Found one with barrel aligned , purchased it . Noticed rounds were loose in chamber . Not rattling around but not as snug as my other revolvers .
Fact: It (637) Will chamber 38S&W rounds (Remington brand not Winchester )
No opinion just facts.....
Fact: When shopping for A 637 J Frame I passed on first two I looked at . Barrel alignment was off .
Fact: Found one with barrel aligned , purchased it . Noticed rounds were loose in chamber . Not rattling around but not as snug as my other revolvers .
Fact: It (637) Will chamber 38S&W rounds (Remington brand not Winchester )
No opinion just facts.....
