SOLVED Help Identifying Low-Number Hand Ejector

[USRaider]

Hi Everyone! I just purchased a hand ejector in .32-20, and am not sure which model it is. (I am certain it was not the .32 cartridge I had hoped for, but that's a story for a different time.)

Here is what I see:

• Hand Ejector
• "32 Winchester Ctg"
• Nickel Finish
• Serial 55X (3 digits on the butt)
• Fixed Sights
• 4 screw (no screw in front of the
• NO underlug
• Curved butt/heel (See pictures, I am unsure what terminology is correct here)
• Tension screw on front of grip

Thanks for looking! (Picture background blurred to reduce file size)

 

[murphydog]

It is an early (wait for it) - .32/20 Hand Ejector, model of 1899, a K or medium frame. They may have also called the chambering .32 Winchester. It is the only type that did not have the forward locking point for the extractor rod.

It has a round butt grip frame, as did all of this model's production at the time. You may have been looking for an S & W in .32 Long, but at that time they were only made on the I or .32 frame. K frame .32 Longs are scarce and usually have Target sights.

 

[USRaider]

And there it is, my answer! Thank you!

I suspected it would be the wrong .32 but bought it for a cheap price with vague information, so took the gamble.

The (overly long and wordy) back story: A few years ago I purchased a Colt New Police in 32 Long Colt. At the time I was unaware that it was different from .32 Long, as the other 32 colt is apparently a renaming of the same thing.

Before realizing, I bought several boxes of 32 S&W long, and some snap caps. Cue the ongoing hunt for .32 Colt Long at reasonable prices, and a relatively cheap .32 S&W long shooter.

Saw this .32/20 Hand Ejector, model of 1899 listed vaguely, knew it stood a good chance of being yet another different .32, but had hope in my heart.

Gambled and won a different prize than anticipated.

Thanks again!

It is an early (wait for it) - .32/20 Hand Ejector, model of 1899, a K or medium frame. They may have also called the chambering .32 Winchester. It is the only type that did not have the forward locking point for the extractor rod.

It has a round butt grip frame, as did all of this model's production at the time. You may have been looking for an S & W in .32 Long, but at that time they were only made on the I or .32 frame. K frame .32 Longs are scarce and usually have Target sights.

 

[rct269]

And it's REALLY old!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[USRaider]

Close to antique, but no cigar.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Your .32-20 is the same gun as the .38 M&P Model 1899, except for caliber. The action is made up of flat springs and levers and has been obsolete since 1905. Your gun still has the knob on the extractor rod. It's removable and they tend to fall off and get lost. So, at least you won't have to find a replacement. It may be the angle of your pictures, but the extractor rod appears to not be parallel to the barrel. Does it wobble when the cylinder is rotated? If so, it may be bent. That can be fixed, if necessary. Anyway, congratulations on acquiring an early example of the .32-20 M&P handgun!

 

[USRaider]

Strangely, it appears to remain at that angle.
The knob has some vise marks on it, I suspect it had fallen off and the previous owner aggressively prevented a repeat incident.

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Your .32-20 is the same gun as the .38 M&P Model 1899, except for caliber. The action is made up of flat springs and levers and has been obsolete since 1905. Your gun still has the knob on the extractor rod. It's removable and they tend to fall off and get lost. So, at least you won't have to find a replacement. It may be the angle of your pictures, but the extractor rod appears to not be parallel to the barrel. Does it wobble when the cylinder is rotated? If so, it may be bent. That can be fixed, if necessary. Anyway, congratulations on acquiring an early example of the most popular .38 Special handgun in history!

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Strangely, it appears to remain at that angle.

Well, if it doesn't wobble when the cylinder is rotated, the cylinder alignment may be off. The rod should have a uniform gap with the barrel over its length. Before you shoot it, I suggest having a gunsmith check it out.

 

[USRaider]

The barrel appears to cant upward slightly. When I hold the revolver frame face and ejector rod as my point of reference, they appear to be straight.

It will be looked at before firing for sure.

 

[StrawHat]

As Guy mentioned, the action is comprised of a series of flat springs and levers. Parts for this model are difficult, if not bordering on impossible, to locate. I would suggest only judicious firing and not much of it.

Kevin

 

[mikepriwer]

There are several groups of 32-20's that were chambered in 32 long. Some were targets, and some were M&P's. The groups were typically 10-20 revolvers, and they seem to have started in about 1909. They are seldom seen, but they do exist.

Mike Priwer

 

[USRaider]

That's interesting to know. This seems to be a plain jane .32-20, 32 S&W snap caps and rounds do not fit the cylinder properly.

Upon deeper inspection, it is clear someone has been here before. (And not just because they signed the grip)

The screw that holds in the cylinder crane arm was in the wrong socket (I have corrected it).

The spring for the detent in the crane arm appears to be missing (I have not corrected it).

The barrel and side plate are matching.

It definitely seems that the mechanical issue is a bent barrel. Perhaps it was "tuned" for accuracy. Or more likely, maybe they had an accident and adjusted the fouled up sight accordingly.

 

[murphydog]

There are several groups of 32-20's that were chambered in 32 long. Some were targets, and some were M&P's. The groups were typically 10-20 revolvers, and they seem to have started in about 1909. They are seldom seen, but they do exist.

Mike Priwer

I had never heard of these before. Anyone you know have one, and a photo?

 

[USRaider]

Here is the barrel curve/dog leg that I appear to see. The red line is a hyperbolic representation of what I see. The photos don't seem to do it justice, but it definitely looks a bit like a Garand operating rod.

It seems to cant up right, perhaps it was dropped? The smallest crescent segment of the lower left edge of the cylinder face can be seen in the locked position on every chamber.

 

[MajorD]

Just to give you some additional caliber information ( and confusion!)
S&W developed the 32 S&W in the 1870’s for the small top break revolvers, then lengthened it for use in the small I frame hand ejectors. It would later be lengthened twice more, once to make the 32 H&R magnum, then again to create the 327 federal magnum. ( actual bullet diameter is about .312 so really a 31 not a 32.)
Colt started with the 32 colt ( short case) then lengthened that to a longer case in a similar fashion. The key difference is unlike most centerfires these used an Outside lubricated bullet close to the same diameter of the case ( much like what you see in a 22 long rifle) with larger bullet/ bore diameters
This was phased out in the early 1900’s over time.
Colt didn’t want to put 32 S&W marking on their guns, so designed a “new” 32 cartridge called the 32 colt new police ( often marked on guns as 32 NP) which is simply the same 32 S&W long case with a flat point instead of a traditional round nose bullet.
32/20 was also called 32 Winchester or 32 WCF ( Winchester centerfire ) and was chambered in the K size S&W and colt ‘s similar size frame as it was too long for the smaller frame sizes of the early 1900’s. When using this cartridge, caution must be advised. The ammo produced in the last 30-40 years in 32/20 has been at a pressure level safe for both rifles and pistols. Back in the 1950’s and earlier, to provide more power in rifles like the Winchester model 1892 which is a strong action some ammo companies made a high pressure/ velocity load designed for rifles only which is far too high pressure to use in a revolver safely. These are often headstamped 32/20 HV M92 or similar.
I used a lot of 32/20 in both a rifle and pistol years ago, and any random loose old ammo I found was always fired in the rifle first, then used for reloading to a pressure level safe for both types of guns.
32 colt or long colt I don’t think has been factory made since the 1960’s, so all you will find for that will be very old stock ammo. Old stock is not at all bad, but you will probably have to visit some crusty old gun shops to find it

 

[USRaider]

Thanks for the background. I did see that Winchester was advertising .32 Short Colt for cowboy matches in the somewhat recent past, definitely more recent than the 60s.

X32SCP | Winchester Ammunition

I have not seen any of that in the wild, though I haven't been looking all that long. There are boutique ammo makers for long colt, but they sell at the same $3-$4 per round as the old stock stuff. I might as well buy cases, a lead mold, press and dies, and load black powder cartridges myself.

Just to give you some additional caliber information ( and confusion!)
S&W developed the 32 S&W in the 1870’s for the small top break revolvers, then lengthened it for use in the small I frame hand ejectors. It would later be lengthened twice more, once to make the 32 H&R magnum, then again to create the 327 federal magnum. ( actual bullet diameter is about .312 so really a 31 not a 32.)
Colt started with the 32 colt ( short case) then lengthened that to a longer case in a similar fashion. The key difference is unlike most centerfires these used an Outside lubricated bullet close to the same diameter of the case ( much like what you see in a 22 long rifle) with larger bullet/ bore diameters
This was phased out in the early 1900’s over time.
Colt didn’t want to put 32 S&W marking on their guns, so designed a “new” 32 cartridge called the 32 colt new police ( often marked on guns as 32 NP) which is simply the same 32 S&W long case with a flat point instead of a traditional round nose bullet.
32/20 was also called 32 Winchester or 32 WCF ( Winchester centerfire ) and was chambered in the K size S&W and colt ‘s similar size frame as it was too long for the smaller frame sizes of the early 1900’s. When using this cartridge, caution must be advised. The ammo produced in the last 30-40 years in 32/20 has been at a pressure level safe for both rifles and pistols. Back in the 1950’s and earlier, to provide more power in rifles like the Winchester model 1892 which is a strong action some ammo companies made a high pressure/ velocity load designed for rifles only which is far too high pressure to use in a revolver safely. These are often headstamped 32/20 HV M92 or similar.
I used a lot of 32/20 in both a rifle and pistol years ago, and any random loose old ammo I found was always fired in the rifle first, then used for reloading to a pressure level safe for both types of guns.
32 colt or long colt I don’t think has been factory made since the 1960’s, so all you will find for that will be very old stock ammo. Old stock is not at all bad, but you will probably have to visit some crusty old gun shops to find it

 

[Retired W4]

... Before you shoot it, I suggest having a gunsmith check it out.

I concur.

 

[mojave30cal]

Can you tell us what is serial number is?

 

[mikepriwer]

Alan

Here is the link to one that I just bought. Still waiting to receive it.

Just a moment...

Next is a better copy of the factory letter.

Here are two that I have owned for several years.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[USRaider]

3 digit 55X (if you meant me!)

Can you tell us what is serial number is?