SOLVED Help Identifying Low-Number Hand Ejector

[glowe]

Here is the barrel curve/dog leg that I appear to see. . . It seems to cant up right, perhaps it was dropped? . . .

You have a very big problem there, as I think the barrel is 1/4" to 1/2" high at the muzzle! The barrel/frame is indeed bent up and there is no way I would shoot the gun before addressing this problem. More likely it was used to hit something or someone. It does resemble a hammer and old-time law enforcement were not adverse to "buffalo" crooks and criminals.

You should find a gunsmith that does work on older revolvers. I would think it possible to bend the barrel/frame back into position, but one must be looking very closely for distress to the frame before firing. It would be good to take some pictures around the barrel/frame/cylinder. First, take a picture of the cylinder gap at the rear of the barrel, looking for visible space difference between the top and bottom of the barrel. Take a picture of the front of the yoke/frame to look for misalignment when the cylinder if closed. Lastly, a picture of the rear of the cylinder and the rebound plate, again looking for differences between the top and bottom of the cylinder.

Here is what a properly aligned barrel on a 32 Winchester Model 1899 should look like. Also, let me add your image and it looks like 1/4" to me.

 

[DARE]

I had a similar problem with a .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model. The barrel was pointing up enough that the cylinder would not latch. The frame was bent where the barrel enters the frame.
One of our members made me a tool to correct the problem. It is a brass rod turned to barrel diameter. The rod is threaded so a pointer can be attached. The point should align with the firing pin hole. When I started the point was low on the firing pin hole because the barrel was pointing up.
Gradually applied pressure until the point lined up with the firing pin hole and problem fixed. The gun shoots just fine.

 

[USRaider]

If a brass rod is enough to do that effectively, I am certainly interested.
Do you know if that user is still around here and would gice it a shot?

*Edit* It occurs to me that I will also need to add material back to the front sight. The ugly gun gets uglier.

I had a similar problem with a .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model. The barrel was pointing up enough that the cylinder would not latch. The frame was bent where the barrel enters the frame.
One of our members made me a tool to correct the problem. It is a brass rod turned to barrel diameter. The rod is threaded so a pointer can be attached. The point should align with the firing pin hole. When I started the point was low on the firing pin hole because the barrel was pointing up.
Gradually applied pressure until the point lined up with the firing pin hole and problem fixed. The gun shoots just fine.

 

[DARE]

I will contact the guy and see if he will make you a tool. The brass rod worked fine for me. One thing that occurs to me is that a .44 caliber rod would be stronger than a .32 caliber.
I would think any decent machinist could make one for you.

 

[steelslaver]

I am the guy who made the tool.
The rod is mostly used as a pointer. As it was made to fit the lands of the rifling and once in place the tip of the threaded piece should line up with the hole in center of the firing pin bushing.If not then pressure can be applied near the muzzle of the barrel to form the frame at barrel juncture back to the point where irt does lined up.

As your is an 1899 32-30 the barrel and frame are threaded at .500-36 the same size as the I and J frames. This area being lighter than later model K frames it would also be easier to get deformed especially with that long barrel and probably be easier to reform

Being land diameter it will not go down the barrel if the barrel itself is bent but will hang up at the bend.

As the groove dia of a 32 cal is .312 AND THE land dia is about .300 You could get a fair idea of the problem with a piece of smooth 1/4" round stock, that was ground to a centered point on one end. With a 6" barrel it will give you come idea, But, once the rod is in the barrel against the recoil shield you could mark it at the muzzle and forcing cone . Remove it and place 2 tight wraps of scotch tape by each mark so that they will be in barrel when rod is in place. Try not to have any over lap on the 2 wraps. Then reinsert the round stock and the tape will hold the rod closer to barrels center and give you a better idea of how far off it is

The best option would be to turn a piece to 5/16 brass rod down to .300 so it barely slipped down the barrel.

The old method way to detect bent barrels was to hold a candle near one end in a dark room with the muzzle pointed at a piece of paper a distance away. A straight barrel will project a round spot and a bent on an oval. The narrow part of the oval being the direction of the bend.

 

[DWalt]

I had never heard of these before. Anyone you know have one, and a photo?

There were some post-WWII M&Ps made in .32 S&W Long. Not many, and most were exported, never to return. One of the least common S&W handguns. The old .32 Colt cartridge is very difficult to find, and there is no other more available cartridge that has a case that can be reformed to it.

 

[steelslaver]

The good news is it is made out of steel which is very formable with proper forces applied

LOL, I learned a long time ago (about 40-45 years)when I had a "normal job" as a copier repair man, that the customer doesn't get as nearly as conserned when you bill them for forming something as apposed to bending it. I was really good at fixing copiers, but not so good at fixing customers, where the real problem often laid.

You can straighten a bowed barrel by careful use a hydraulic jack or clamps. If it the frame is distorted where thee barrel joins it, I would clamp the top strap to a piece of heavy flat bar and uses small wedges under the barrel to form it back to where it belongs. But the old school method to adjust barrels was a to use an educated strike or 2 with a babbit bar. I have lots of lead, and babbit and even several brass hammers of various sizes, but not the guts to learn how much and how hard to wack one. So, prefer applying slow controlled force. Usually when forming metal you will get some spring back . If I form something to just right and it springs back say 1/16", I then press it 1/16" past perfect and allow it to spring back to the correct spot.

I collected up a bent 8 3/6 38 special barrel and was able to get it back straight. I also collected some bulged barrels and have had varying success on those. A thin 1911 barrel came out decent. One with a rib is being difficult and a heavy Ruger barrel needs more force than I have available. A 20 tons hydraulic jack. I suspect a friends hydraulic hose fitting crimper could do it, but the difference between just right and much would be a split second on the controls and it would leave the outside ugly

 

[glowe]

. . . It occurs to me that I will also need to add material back to the front sight. The ugly gun gets uglier.

The 32-20 shot much lower than the 38, so the round front sight was always lower. No need to worry as it appears totally original in your pictures. A couple of 1899s, one on the left is a 32 Winchester.

 

[USRaider]

Well, if so, it seems they may have tried to shape it to their liking.

The 32-20 shot much lower than the 38, so the round front sight was always lower. No need to worry as it appears totally original in your pictures. A couple of 1899s, one on the left is a 32 Winchester.

 

[USRaider]

It appears that the frame is slightly bent, and I do mean slightly. I did not use calipers, but the top of the cone is closer to the cylinder face than the bottom. Hard to see with the naked eye.

The front of the crane does appear to be slightly misaligned with the frame.

An amount of flame cutting can be seen on the bottom of the top strap. Yet the bore is quite clean. This might be the only well shot flaking revolver I've ever seen where someone cleaned it.

You have a very big problem there, as I think the barrel is 1/4" to 1/2" high at the muzzle! The barrel/frame is indeed bent up and there is no way I would shoot the gun before addressing this problem. More likely it was used to hit something or someone. It does resemble a hammer and old-time law enforcement were not adverse to "buffalo" crooks and criminals.

You should find a gunsmith that does work on older revolvers. I would think it possible to bend the barrel/frame back into position, but one must be looking very closely for distress to the frame before firing. It would be good to take some pictures around the barrel/frame/cylinder. First, take a picture of the cylinder gap at the rear of the barrel, looking for visible space difference between the top and bottom of the barrel. Take a picture of the front of the yoke/frame to look for misalignment when the cylinder if closed. Lastly, a picture of the rear of the cylinder and the rebound plate, again looking for differences between the top and bottom of the cylinder.

Here is what a properly aligned barrel on a 32 Winchester Model 1899 should look like. Also, let me add your image and it looks like 1/4" to me.

 

[glowe]

Well, if so, it seems they may have tried to shape it to their liking.

Thanks for the close-ups, as it is not easy to see in your other pictures. Is that brass or paint??

Also, great pictures of the cylinder/barrel gap. Certainly confirms that the barrel is quite a bit out of plumb! Keep us informed of the barrel straightening process.

 

[USRaider]

It is definitely copper, not paint. (Though I will triple check now that it's been brought up!)

It looks like it could be brazed on, considering the chances that the front sight was that low to begin with. I assumed the normal sized sight with some filing down had cut through the nickle to reveal that.

I will also have to do some digging on this forum for nickle finish preservation and care, especially with the insides flaking in places.

Thanks for the close-ups, as it is not easy to see in your other pictures. Is that brass or paint??

Also, great pictures of the cylinder/barrel gap. Certainly confirms that the barrel is quite a bit out of plumb! Keep us informed of the barrel straightening process.

 

[mikepriwer]

Be careful about removing metal. That copper coloring on the front sight may be an undercoat plating of copper, which was done prior to the nickel plating. If I am recalling this correctly, nickel was thought to plate better to copper, than to steel. It's also possible that this was done for only a short period of time!

Mike Priwer

 

[USRaider]

I will not be removing metal at all from this.
It has all it needs.

Be careful about removing metal. That copper coloring on the front sight may be an undercoat plating of copper, which was done prior to the nickel plating. If I am recalling this correctly, nickel was thought to plate better to copper, than to steel. It's also possible that this was done for only a short period of time!

Mike Priwer

 

[StrawHat]

Be careful about removing metal. That copper coloring on the front sight may be an undercoat plating of copper, which was done prior to the nickel plating. If I am recalling this correctly, nickel was thought to plate better to copper, than to steel. It's also possible that this was done for only a short period of time!

Mike Priwer

Mike,

S&W did not copper wash prior to nickel plating. At least that is what I have gleaned on this site. Other companies, yes, just not S&W..

Kevin

 

[mikepriwer]

Kevin

I thought that I was sure that Roy told me, years ago, that a plating of copper was used first, and then the nickel was plated on next. Those thumb-nails that were posted at the end of one post show that same orange coloring in various spots where the nickel is peeling off.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[USRaider]

Kevin, are you able to open those images in their larger standard size?
I'm new to posting pictures here, and as you mentioned thumbnails, I'm worried I'm doing it wrong.

Kevin

I thought that I was sure that Roy told me, years ago, that a plating of copper was used first, and then the nickel was plated on next. Those thumb-nails that were posted at the end of one post show that same orange coloring in various spots where the nickel is peeling off.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[Model19man]

Kevin

I thought that I was sure that Roy told me, years ago, that a plating of copper was used first, and then the nickel was plated on next. Those thumb-nails that were posted at the end of one post show that same orange coloring in various spots where the nickel is peeling off.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Doubtful Roy would have said something like that. It's not true.

 

[Muley Gil]

Of course, the nickel plating could have done after-market, where copper was used as a base.

 

[glowe]

Why does the top-strap have an orange color? Is it light reflection or something on the gun? I would soak that front sight in paint remover or wipe down with acetone to see if it is paint or plating?