Speer short barrel ammo 357 vs 38+P

[Robert B]

I currently use the Speer short barrel 135 gr 357 ammo in my J frame. I'm wondering how much less felt recoil there would be if I switched to their 38+P short barrel ammo. A Speer technical rep e-mailed me recommending the switch to the 38+P stuff. What do you all think? Would the two rounds hit the target about the same? The 357 stuff is right where I aim at 7 yards. Would the recoil and thus the follow up shot speed be improved? Just your thoughts.....

 

[OKFC05]

Here's a recoil calculator that will give you the numbers:
Recoil Calculator

However, FELT recoil is so subjective only you can judge what you want.

Here's a suggestion on practice with stubby J frames: Shoot most of your practice rounds with WC or othr light practice ammo. Then fire one cylinderfull of your defense ammo at the very end of your practice session, and quit. If you absolutely can't deal with the five rounds of your defense ammo, then perhaps lower power is needed.

Nobody thinks a full practice session with .357 in a stubby is fun. Well, maybe one guy.......

 

[sonny]

Pull up the Speer short-barrel ammo web-site and you find this:
Gold Dot Personal Protection ammo:
Comparing the 125 grain ammo for each caliber:
Both the 38+P and the .357 are 125 gr.
Velocity: .38 = 945 fps .357 = 1450 fps
Muzzle energy .38 = 248 ft# .357 = 584 ft#
recoil energy .38 = 2 ft# .357 = 5 ft#

If you use the .38 and hit your mark, your recoil will be about half of the .357 and your followup shot will be much quicker.
If you use the .357 and hit your mark, you won't need the followup shot.
IMHO
Practice with the .38 stuff with an occasional cylinder of .357's. Carry the .357's. In an emergency, you won't feel any recoil.
Sonny
p.s. at short distance, less than 15 yards, the .357 is likely to it 1-2 inches lower than the .38. Not a big deal.

 

[10-12]

A single man with no one depending on him may choose to disregard the following. However, I would advise against practicing with light loads and carrying full magnums for serious purposes without being able to demonstrate proficiency. Heaven forbid you have to use your weapon because a lawsuit will ensue and the prosecutor will attempt to make you appear irresponsible if not worse. You could lose everything you own to your attacker or his family. I would recommend you practice with .38s and once proficient with them then practice with .357s until you can hit your target. For instance, my standard is six rounds on the space close to that of a paper plate at 25 yards. When I can do that I consider myself proficient. I begin by practicing with .38s. Once there, I practice with .357s. Afterwards I annotate the target with the distance, load, and date. I keep the most current one.

One time while on the line for qualification, a small statured officer was firing magnums. The area behind the target was the safest place to be. She was shooting up the ground all around the feet of the rest of us and we looked like a bunch of drunks doing the Mexican hat dance. She would have been better served, as would all of us and the public, had she carried .38s.

Even for someone who isn’t concerned with the law, it is still morally reprehensible for him/her to carry a deadly weapon if he/she has not mastered it. Just because they mastered a revolver loaded with .38s does not mean they have mastered it loaded with magnums.

I realize my opinion may be in the minority but there are likely to be innocents in the area beside the miscreants should you have to shoot. I for one would hate to live with harming an innocent person because I allowed macho to trump responsibility.

Just my opinopn.

 

[Electraclyde]

A single man with no one depending on him may choose to disregard the following. However, I would advise against practicing with light loads and carrying full magnums for serious purposes without being able to demonstrate proficiency. Heaven forbid you have to use your weapon because a lawsuit will ensue and the prosecutor will attempt to make you appear irresponsible if not worse. You could lose everything you own to your attacker or his family. I would recommend you practice with .38s and once proficient with them then practice with .357s until you can hit your target. For instance, my standard is six rounds on the space close to that of a paper plate at 25 yards. When I can do that I consider myself proficient. I begin by practicing with .38s. Once there, I practice with .357s. Afterwards I annotate the target with the distance, load, and date. I keep the most current one.

One time while on the line for qualification, a small statured officer was firing magnums. The area behind the target was the safest place to be. She was shooting up the ground all around the feet of the rest of us and we looked like a bunch of drunks doing the Mexican hat dance. She would have been better served, as would all of us and the public, had she carried .38s.

Even for someone who isn’t concerned with the law, it is still morally reprehensible for him/her to carry a deadly weapon if he/she has not mastered it. Just because they mastered a revolver loaded with .38s does not mean they have mastered it loaded with magnums.

I realize my opinion may be in the minority but there are likely to be innocents in the area beside the miscreants should you have to shoot. I for one would hate to live with harming an innocent person because I allowed macho to trump responsibility.

Just my opinopn.

I agree. I own a 340 M&P .357 magnum and a 442. I shoot .357 mag ammo in the 340 and .38 Spe +P in the 442. I normaly shoot equal amounts of ammo in each gun at each range session. I carry the 340 as a primary concealed carry and the 442 as a backup and also as a weak hand gun if needed. I carry one reload strip with .38 Spe +P so I can use it in either gun. I always practise with what I will carry.

 

[flop-shank]

Here's a suggestion on practice with stubby J frames: Shoot most of your practice rounds with WC or othr light practice ammo. Then fire one cylinderfull of your defense ammo at the very end of your practice session, and quit. If you absolutely can't deal with the five rounds of your defense ammo, then perhaps lower power is needed.

Nobody thinks a full practice session with .357 in a stubby is fun. Well, maybe one guy.......

Good advice, but if you're refering to me, no way! The last time I fired Speer SB .357, and equivalent recoil practice loads from my wood gripped 360 PD I had "magnum hand" for three days.

As I recall the SB +Ps are a nice bit easier on the hand.

 

[OKFC05]

One time while on the line for qualification, a small statured officer was firing magnums. The area behind the target was the safest place to be. She was shooting up the ground all around the feet of the rest of us and we looked like a bunch of drunks doing the Mexican hat dance. She would have been better served, as would all of us and the public, had she carried .38s.

This situation is a real problem, and the challenge as a trainer is how to deal with the person productively. I have worked with several deputies (in private NRA-type class setting) to get them through the problem. Too often, the dept "trainer" in small organizations just belittles the person and tells them they should quit.

That's where I came up with the 25 reg .38s followed by the five defense loads and quit. Repeat again tomorrow, PRN. Concentrate on form. Finally, the defense loads will start landing in the A zone.

One woman who had previously been started out shooting heavy loads went from shooting under the target at 5 yds with wadcutters, to a good qualifying score with full-power--weeks later.
Started out with a flinch THIS BIG.

As I'm sure other instructors wil agree, it is easier to teach a woman who has never fired a gun than one who has been handed a belchfire magnum to learn on and been hurt by it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you check the Speer site you will notice the 135gr .38 Special +P SB ammo is rated at 860 fps from a 2" barrel and the 135gr .357 Magnum SB ammo is rated at 990 fps from a 2" barrel. Considering that 135gr bullet was engineered to reliable expand at 800 fps I see no reason to buy the much more expansive .357 ammo over the .38 Spl +P ammo. (sometimes as much as twice the price but not always)

 

[magnum12pm]

For instance, my standard is six rounds on the space close to that of a paper plate at 25 yards. When I can do that I consider myself proficient. I begin by practicing with .38s. Once there, I practice with .357s. Afterwards I annotate the target with the distance, load, and date. I keep the most current one.

.

I'm still waiting to see someone at my range that can hit a paper plate at 25 yards shooting double action with a revolver!!

 

[stiab]

I'm still waiting to see someone at my range that can hit a paper plate at 25 yards shooting double action with a revolver!!

You must be kidding? I guess there are no long term revolver shooters at your range. Several of my friends and I frequently shoot DA revolvers at 100, 50, and 25 yards at the range, along with 1911's, P220's, etc. I'd say there are many people on this forum who could perform that task with little difficulty using S&W revolvers with adjustable sights. For many long term revolver shooters like myself, DA is the only way we shoot.

 

[magnum12pm]

You must be kidding? I guess there are no long term revolver shooters at your range. Several of my friends and I frequently shoot DA revolvers at 100, 50, and 25 yards at the range, along with 1911's, P220's, etc. I'd say there are many people on this forum who could perform that task with little difficulty using S&W revolvers with adjustable sights. For many long term revolver shooters like myself, DA is the only way we shoot.

I am not suggesting it can't be done, just saying I don't see anyone that can do it where I go. They have 1600 members, not all handgun shooters, skeet and trap are big there. We also have 12 lane indoor pistol range. I been going there three years and have not seen that level of skill with revolvers. I agree with you I would not think of pulling the hammer back except for sight adjustment off a rest. A hammer puller is committing sin

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would give up shooting if I couldn't put all 6 rounds into a paper plate at 25 yards DA. (and I don't consider myself a "great" shoot)

If you want to get good with a J frame try this: (not my idea so I can't take credit)
Try shooting 5 rounds into a 5" plate from 5 yards in 5 seconds. When (and if) you can do that try it while you move. After that shooting slow fire DA at 25 yards will be a lot easier.

 

[ajpelz]

I'm still waiting to see someone at my range that can hit a paper plate at 25 yards shooting double action with a revolver!!

WOW, speechless. It isn't that difficult. Anyone with average skills should be able to put 5 of 6 on a plate at that distance... who shoots at your range??

 

[sonny]

Try shooting 5 rounds into a 5" plate from 5 yards in 5 seconds.

Easy. But haven't tried it on the move or will walk into other shooters. Usta be able to do this in Carlisle, Pa yrs ago when we had our own shooting building, 7 x 24 hrs. Very, very nice. Paid $5 per yr for a door key. Was in middle of town. Even had a kitchen. If it's still there, I'm moving back.

Sonny

 

[OKFC05]

Want to know how yor shooting stacks up?
Try IDPA. Shoot the classifier. There are IDPA clubs all over.
International Defensive Pistol Association - Affiliated Club State and Country List

I recruit shooters from the commercial ranges, and many are shocked to find how outclassed they are when they start. But if that old competitive spirit kicks in, they start taking lessons and learning proper grip, trigger control, gun handling, and pretty soon they're competing in their IDPA class.

Not everybody has the physical capability to be a master shooter, but IDPA has five divisions, each with five classes. The IDPA National Stock Service Revolver (SSR) Champion lives in OK, and Curt can beat me any day on any match, but I'm in a lower classification, so we can both go to a match and bring back a trophy. And you can learn a lot from watching..............

 

[magnum12pm]

WOW, speechless. It isn't that difficult. Anyone with average skills should be able to put 5 of 6 on a plate at that distance... who shoots at your range??

I here ya! It is mostly people with very little experience (beginners). There are really just a handful of skilled shooters. The revolver is not popular around my range. I shoot a couple of IDPA fun shoots each summer as I live to far from sanctioned events. I usually have to drive 70 miles or more for the fun shoots. However I have to give the folks credit they are there regularly, trying to build their skills, I can't fault anyone working at it, right? I see some really bad fundamentals. I often help as many people as are willing to ask.....

 

[RedBerens]

Is the felt recoil between the two loads really that big? I noticed the velocity difference was only a little over 100 fps, so I was hoping the short barreled magnum load would be pretty manageable.

 

[ncy54]

I'm still waiting to see someone at my range that can hit a paper plate at 25 yards shooting double action with a revolver!!

Not an issue at my ranges, as most of us shoot Police-L and NRA Bullseye at 15 yards with full size revolvers double action. A small pie plate would be adequate. The J frames, on the other hand, might require a bigger plate (platter) at 25 yards........

 

[Andy Griffith]

I'm still waiting to see someone at my range that can hit a paper plate at 25 yards shooting double action with a revolver!!

You do mean with a 2" barrel, correct?

It's easy with a 4" barrel .38 Special S&W or Colt, but becomes increasingly hard with a 2" Chief's Special (took me lots of practice and get 3 to 4 in that plate at that distance since I've aged)...and close to impossible with a NAA in .22 Short.

Now, if you can master a pie plate at 25 yards with this thing...you'd be dangerous.

 

[magnum12pm]

Not an issue at my ranges, as most of us shoot Police-L and NRA Bullseye at 15 yards with full size revolvers double action. A small pie plate would be adequate. The J frames, on the other hand, might require a bigger plate (platter) at 25 yards........

I had to try it...I can put 70% of my shots on a 8x11 sheet of paper at 25yd. with my fixed site model 60 snubby. Thats probably similar to a paper plate. I can live with that.