I have never liked their coffee. It all tastes burnt to me. But I do agree with the comment in the letter that said no gun owner should ever set foot in any Starbucks again. I wasn't planning to anyway but now I for-sure will not.
Starbucks caved
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UncaGrunny
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I think you and I are in near-total agreement here, sir.
But, isn't Shultz's letter pretty much doing the same thing as asking someone to leave, by just asking people to not openly carry into the stores in the first place - especially for purposes of politics - without penalty if someone chooses not to follow his wishes?
Why would an individual confrontation & the threat of police intervention be necessary, if you know how the owner of the property feels up front?
Seems to me more is to be gained (& less is to lost) by not forcing this guy into the position of having to set a full-on formal policy actually prohibiting private-citizen carry into his stores (which would be used by anti-gunners to great propaganda advantage every time violations of the rule made the evening news), by forcing a show-down where he admittedly holds all the cards, should he choose to play them.
To me it seems like he's taking a reasonable, reasoned approach, even if I disagree with his reasoning - - sharp contrast to recent corporate knee-jerk political posturing like what Dick's Sporting Goods did post-Sandy Hook, by ending MSR sales in their stores. That decision cost them dearly enough that they've been working to recapture those lost sales through an affiliated division.
Remains to be seen how much business this may cost Starbucks. It's for sure it will cost them some; up to the owners to decide if it's worth it.
Your mileage may vary, of course. Nothing saying we have to agree, I'm just interested.
Nothing better than kicking important topics around with smart, passionate people.
Look at me Im a stud! The vast majority of people look at that photo and think Wow what a *******... Get a concealed permit and use it.Intimidating little old ladies impresses no one..
duppie
Member
I find it rather ironic and telling that some of the the participants of this thread who advocate the simplistic "you're either for us or against us" or "We have the right to open carry" edict in this instance all have low thread counts compared to the members we know and trust....
I make no judgments but make it a habit to disseminate all info carefully and with a critical eye.......
I make no judgments but make it a habit to disseminate all info carefully and with a critical eye.......
True
Well I don't like the idea of a company asking you to give up your right for them, which is pretty much what he does.
I find it disturbing.
I would prefer if they would ask everybody who open carries to leave as soon as they enter the store on the base that it is their property and on non compliance they can file charges.
I consider that the proper legal way to handle it and not asking citizens to give up rights given by the State / Constitution.
Well, you can apply that for any right you have. Should you now each time make sure that you give up the appropriate right to please the owner?
Well if he wants to remain neutral it would have been better to just say nothing or announce that Starbucks will not tolerate political events on their property.
I think it is more an economic approach. He knows lots of gun owners went to Starbucks because of their policy. He wants them to continue buying coffee and please the liberals. So a reasonable approach as I stated above would have been banning any political events at Starbucks , including Pro Gun and Anti Gun events.
The question of course is when does open carry acts as a political statement?
Nothing to add there
I think it will cost them some business in the beginning but I feel that lots of open carry people will cave in due to the single reason because they don't carry open for making a political statement.
I don't think it was a good idea at all showing up with AR15, small steps are required. A open carried nicely holstered handgun would have made the same statement without being to invasive for the little scared sheep
Very true
A right not exercised is a right lost. Especially in current times where politics run berserk we have to fight every single right we have, if we give one up we will eventually lose all.
Do low thread counts make somebody's opinion less valuable or what do you want to say exactly?
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My feeling is that just because you have a right to do something does not mean that you SHOULD do it all the time. Open carry is one of those areas where a little common sense goes a long way; there are places for it and places that being discreet makes more sense and concealed carry is the way to go. The decision to carry a firearm carries a lot of responsibility with it.
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duppie
Member
As in any trusting relationship a certain amount of time and experience must be accrued before a that relationship is considered valid.....at least IMHO....so the answer is Yes. I, as a new member of this forum expected to "make my bones"and gradually gain credibility if not acceptance...I in turn expect the ones who come after me to contemplate the same.....
labworm
US Veteran
Some people should just stay out of the advertising business.
The knuckleheads constantly crying for attention do nothing for us responsible gun owners.
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Unfortunately the post counter does not show any experience. There are people with very high post counters who train every weekend their drills and tactics on the shooting range hitting the paper target probably have not the same experience then somebody with a low post count but served active in war zones like Afghanistan.
I think you should base the credibility on what people write, not on some number. Especially in this forum people will get called out very quickly if somebody writes nonsense
duppie
Member
Agreed....but the subject at hand has little to do with putting holes in paper and more with a understanding of the nuances of being a asset or liability to the cause of firearm owners and the perception of the group as such. Combat experience is little necessary as much as a sensible mind and experience and history of that mind . Justly or not, is judged by post count simply because Idiots seldom linger.....Unfortunately the post counter does not show any experience. There are people with very high post counters who train every weekend their drills and tactics on the shooting range hitting the paper target probably have not the same experience then somebody with a low post count but served active in war zones like Afghanistan.
I think you should base the credibility on what people write, not on some number. Especially in this forum people will get called out very quickly if somebody writes nonsense
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True, but if you decide to do it you should not be subject to any harassment. Just look how many people got stopped by LE because they used their right of open carry.
Would you be okay being stopped because you used your right of wearing your ski mask to 7eleven?[/QUOTE]
Rights and a sense of judgement (common sense) are two different things.We continue to write and pass more laws every day because a small segment of society figures if it ain't against the law ima gonna do it.
Would you be okay being stopped because you used your right of wearing your ski mask to 7eleven?[/QUOTE]
Rights and a sense of judgement (common sense) are two different things.We continue to write and pass more laws every day because a small segment of society figures if it ain't against the law ima gonna do it.
If we start requiring a justification for a right we have a serious issue. We should always look for a justification if we want to limit a right.
If open carry is allowed by law, should I have to justify why I open carry? Absolutely not!
HKB
US Veteran
I find it ironic that the biggest Starbucks supporters aren't NRA members here or there. 
Strange.... really. 
Well.... maybe not. 
Strange.... really. Well.... maybe not.
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the ringo kid
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I stopped spending there over 18 months ago. Not because anyone being rude and unfriendly or anything--mostly it was I was getting tired of waiting up to an hour to sit at a small table. Also, I agree-their coffee isnt as good as it would seem but--I did like their Sausage, Egg & Cheese Muffins.
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labworm
US Veteran
duppie
Member
I find it ironic that the biggest Starbucks supporters aren't NRA members here or there.
Since I choose to support more grassroots gun rights organizations such as"The NJ second amendment Society" with my finances and time instead of some overbearing and out of touch corporate money machine that had basically abandoned my home state, I have every right to an opinion.... perhaps more so than someone who donated $19.99 to justify putting a badge next to their handle on a firearms site with only 12 posts to their credit
But, isn't it their Right not to???
duppie
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Entirely.....I just don't have to agree to it and in your words... isn't that my right?
the ringo kid
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A slice of their chocolate cake.
I never tried that but--I also used to get different Scones.
I tried one of their Teas which was really good but--im used to getting free-refills of my Tea at places like: Cracker Barrel, Chili's etc. Today at C.B--had my fill of their unsweetened teas and I feel bloated.
Doug M.
Member
I have no feelings about Starbucks one way or the other. I rarely buy coffee outside of home and have my own at work, too. HOWEVER: the open carry folks have gone on the path of their wishes, and what we are getting is a more entrenched group of enemies. I get the concept of OC as a political statement, but it was always counter productive in the long run and that is coming out more now.
I have the right to wear some of my training shirts from EAG when I buy groceries, but wearing my "See the mother****er, shoot the mother****er. Quit thinking about it." shirt, while a sound paradigm, is going to get a couple of groups of handwringers bent out of shape. While I personally hate handwringers, I can make enough enemies by my unpleasant nature when annoyed. I don't need to do it that way. Same with the "Un**** yourself" T-shirt. Having that as a tat on my triceps that shows in some shirts with really short sleeves is enough for me.
I have the right to wear some of my training shirts from EAG when I buy groceries, but wearing my "See the mother****er, shoot the mother****er. Quit thinking about it." shirt, while a sound paradigm, is going to get a couple of groups of handwringers bent out of shape. While I personally hate handwringers, I can make enough enemies by my unpleasant nature when annoyed. I don't need to do it that way. Same with the "Un**** yourself" T-shirt. Having that as a tat on my triceps that shows in some shirts with really short sleeves is enough for me.
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the ringo kid
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Oh and not to keep straying far from topic--but this is related in a way. I read a comment by another on another forum who was complaining about the Wealthy--that when they retire? they should give up what they put into Social Security--and I was the only one who chimed up and said: "Why should they? they paid into it-it's theirs."
My point is--that if I were still doing business with Starbucks? and since from the story I read--the man did seem to ask in a polite way-for those not to bring in weapons. One has got to respect that even if one may not agree with it?
My point is--that if I were still doing business with Starbucks? and since from the story I read--the man did seem to ask in a polite way-for those not to bring in weapons. One has got to respect that even if one may not agree with it?
HKB
US Veteran
Since I choose to support more grassroots gun rights organizations such as"The NJ second amendment Society" with my finances and time instead of some overbearing and out of touch corporate money machine that had basically abandoned my home state, I have every right to an opinion.... perhaps more so than someone who donated $19.99 to justify putting a badge next to their handle on a firearms site with only 12 posts to their credit
I just hope your eye sight is better at the range.
I do agree with you that the number of posts is a good indicator of manhood.
duppie
Member
...and that's fine, that is what dialog and disagreement is all about. I value disagreement because it makes people actually think,reason and formulate answers as to why we disagree.....the trick is to disagree without taking it personally. I admittedly falter at times but learn something new every time and I thank all of you for the privilege........
Hack
Member
That's not what I got out of Shultz's letter.
"First, this is a request and not an outright ban."
It appears to be a simple request to either tone down and hopefully, end the 'debate' at their stores. And move it to another venue.
On a side note: I don't like Starbucks coffee either. Something not right about paying $5+ for a 'fancy' cup of Joe, but I've done it. And not just at Starbucks.
Just my $.02.
I like Starbucks logo.....
I think Starbucks is asking gun owners to behave like grown ups.They have to answer to the company owners (stockholders) just like everyone else does.
duppie
Member
Precisely........
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