Anyone ever have this happen before? I bought a beautiful older 6" S&W .357 in mint 99% condition from my favorite Pawn shop about 2 weeks ago and I got a cop showing up at my front door yesterday saying that it was a stolen gun and that I have to fork it over. I did (after some quick verification of course!) and went to the pawn shop today and they gladly gave me my money back. I don't know what happened but I'm pretty disappointed that I had to say good buy to my new little beauty. Only adds to my disappointment about the direction in which our country has decided to steer itself (elections)...but enough about that since I'd imagine that everyone reading this is on the same page there. On the other hand, I'm glad the rightful owner is getting it back....I'd be pissed beyond belief if it were mine and it got stolen!
Stolen S&W!!!
- Thread starter idaho
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
Anyone ever have this happen before? I bought a beautiful older 6" S&W .357 in mint 99% condition from my favorite Pawn shop about 2 weeks ago and I got a cop showing up at my front door yesterday saying that it was a stolen gun and that I have to fork it over. I did (after some quick verification of course!) and went to the pawn shop today and they gladly gave me my money back. I don't know what happened but I'm pretty disappointed that I had to say good buy to my new little beauty. Only adds to my disappointment about the direction in which our country has decided to steer itself (elections)...but enough about that since I'd imagine that everyone reading this is on the same page there. On the other hand, I'm glad the rightful owner is getting it back....I'd be pissed beyond belief if it were mine and it got stolen!
m657
Member
just a question here.....how does the seller end up returning your money?
Stophel
Member
Probably just out of the goodness of his heart. Count yourself lucky. The seller doesn't have to give you anything back.
Bullseye Smith
Member
Lay you odd's that he didn't hold it for 30 days and give local LE serial number fast enought. Other way around he would have told you go screw yourself. That is one reason I don't go to Pond Shops for a high cost screw.
smith41mag
Member
If he purchased it from a FFL, the NICS check should have pick up on it when it was entered.
Yes the dealer would be obligated to refund your money. He would have to get his back from who he purchased it from.
sometimes it's a mix up in the S/N also.
Believe me it happens.
Bullseye Smith
Member
Sorry , but you don't give a serial number to NIC's. You are checking out the person not the gun.
smith41mag
Member
Maybe this will help.
OPEN LETTER TO ALL TENNESSEE FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSEES
Permanent Provisions of the Brady Law. The purpose of this letter is to advise you of your responsibilities under the permanent provisions of the Brady law, 18 U.S.C. § 922(t). On November 30, 1998, the interim provisions of the Brady law will cease to apply, and the permanent provisions of the Brady law will take effect.
The permanent provisions of the Brady law provide for the establishment of a national instant criminal background check system (NICS) that licensees must contact before transferring any firearm to unlicensed individuals. While the interim provisions apply only to handguns, the permanent provisions of Brady will apply to all firearms. In addition, under permanent Brady there will no longer be an exemption for the redemption of a firearm from pawn.
Notification from the Attorney General. On October 30, 1998, the Department of Justice published a final rule in the Federal Register, announcing the establishment of the NICS as of October 31, 1998. Accordingly, licensees will be required to comply with permanent Brady as of November 30, 1998. Copies of the Justice Department's final rule are available on DOJ's Home Page on the Internet at http://www.fbi.gov/programs/nics/index.htm, and DOJ is mailing copies of the final rule to licensees.
Initiation of NICS Checks. The State of Tennessee will act as the point of contact for NICS checks for all firearms transactions. To request a NICS check for any firearm transaction you must contact the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation by dialing 1-877-486-2435.
Transfers Subject to NICS Check Requirement. As of November 30, 1998, you will be required to initiate a NICS check prior to transferring a firearm to anyone who is not a licensee. The following steps must be followed prior to transferring a firearm:
1. Have the transferee complete and sign ATF Form 4473, Firearms Transaction Record.
2. Verify the identity of the transferee through a Government-issued photo identification (for example, a driver's license).
3. Contact NICS through the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. You will get either a "proceed," "denied" or "delayed" response from the system. If you get a "delayed" response and there is no additional response from the system, you may transfer the firearm after three business days have elapsed. Of course, you must still comply with any waiting period requirements under State law.
4. If you have initiated a NICS check for a proposed firearms transaction, but the transfer of the firearm is not completed, you must retain the Form 4473 in your records for a period of not less than 5 years. If the transfer is completed, the Form 4473 must be retained for at least 20 years.
Alternatives to a NICS Check. The Brady law provides that certain permits may qualify as alternatives to a NICS check. However, there are no permits in your state that qualify as an alternative to a NICS check.
Final Regulations and Forms 4473. On October 29, 1998, ATF published final regulations implementing the permanent provisions of the Brady law. ATF has also modified ATF Form 4473, Firearms Transaction Record, to reflect the changes in the background check system. A copy of the final regulations and a small supply of Forms 4473 will be mailed to each licensee under separate cover before November 30, 1998.
Questions. If you have any questions, please contact your local ATF office or the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
Jimmy Wooten
Assistant Director
(Firearms, Explosives and Arson)
Bullseye Smith
Member
I work with a FFL in Ohio and yet to give a serial number on a nics check. You are checking the person and if it is a long gun or hand gun.
Spotteddog
Member
I once purchased (Aurora, Illinois) a really nice Model 67 for my Wife out of a pawn shop. After installing Meprolites, doing a trigger job, and clocking the tapered, pinned barrel correctly, that square butt would put 6 full wads into the same raggy hole at 30 feet. Fast forward 3 years. Wife's best girlfriend (and BTW, makes me regret not being Mormon!) builds her dream "chateau" just north of Trinidad Colorado. Her brother(suburban Chicago cop)and I
think it'd be a pretty good idea, for her to at the very least have a handgun at the mountain rural property. Wife agrees, M-67 goes to her, a new Model 66 goes to Wife. Wife, girlfriend, brother and I, are all pleased. Fast forward two more years. Low life type handyman is hired, burgles chateau. 3 weeks later frantic phone call from girlfriend. Local sheriff's office gets a ping on the M-67 having been stolen, Chicago. THANK GOD! pawn shop receipt produced and faxed to Wife's girl friend, no further discussion from the authorities. A month or so later low life handyman in a drug addled state is killed on a stolen motorcycle, happy ending!
The pawn shop I'd purchased it from, never made move one to try to make amends. So if yours did, it's a higher class operation than the one I was involved with!
Only regret I have, is that if I was going to be out the money for the 67, I'd have loved to see it returned to it's rightful owner! Which of course, it could not be. Because said turd handyman had no doubt sold it in some bars parking lot, and it was never found.
think it'd be a pretty good idea, for her to at the very least have a handgun at the mountain rural property. Wife agrees, M-67 goes to her, a new Model 66 goes to Wife. Wife, girlfriend, brother and I, are all pleased. Fast forward two more years. Low life type handyman is hired, burgles chateau. 3 weeks later frantic phone call from girlfriend. Local sheriff's office gets a ping on the M-67 having been stolen, Chicago. THANK GOD! pawn shop receipt produced and faxed to Wife's girl friend, no further discussion from the authorities. A month or so later low life handyman in a drug addled state is killed on a stolen motorcycle, happy ending!
The pawn shop I'd purchased it from, never made move one to try to make amends. So if yours did, it's a higher class operation than the one I was involved with!
Only regret I have, is that if I was going to be out the money for the 67, I'd have loved to see it returned to it's rightful owner! Which of course, it could not be. Because said turd handyman had no doubt sold it in some bars parking lot, and it was never found.
Beans
Member
#1
In 1987 I purchased a model 28 S&W from a gun shop "A" in Las Vegas Nevada. I kept the gun almost 2 years and then traded it to another Las Vegas gun shop "B" that I frequented a lot.
Four days after I traded it. A Las Vegas Metro Detective called me and wanted me to turn in the gun as it had been reported stolen, several years before.
In Las Vegas and/or Clark Country Nevada ever handgun that is purchased is required to be registed at the time of sale with the Las Vegas Police department. Being caught with a unregistered handgun can result in an arrest and confiscation of the handgun. Even private sales are require the buyer to register the handgun with the PD.
I informed the Detective that I had traded the gun in to Gunshop "B". and the fun began.
I was threaten with arrest, called a liar on and on. When the Detective finally calmed down enought to listen He agreeded to check my tale out and again threaten with me arrest Etc if the tale was untrue.
The bottom line is that the handgun had been stolen from gun shop "B" and had been through several registered owners before I had purchased the gun.
The detective didn't want to beleive that I had traded the gun to gun shop "B" where it had previously been stolen from.
Gun shop "B" had not checked the handgun since I had the registration card in my name and it was dated almost two years previously and they knew me.
Gunshop "B" had resold the gun two days after I had traded it in to a out of state dealer.
The Metro Detective after confirming my tale, insisted that gunshop "B" contact the out of state dealer, retrive the handgun, turn it into the Las Vegas Metro PD for processing and eventually it would be returned to gunshop "B",
The owner of Gunshop "B" informed the Metro Detective that if he wanted the handgun he had to contact the out of state dealer himself and retrive the gun. They also went around and around over the stolen gun.
The Metro Detective never contacted the out of state dealer.
Finally the gun was taken out of NCIC and marked as recovered.
The owner of gunshop "B" and I have had several laughs and shared a beer or two over the years concerning this incident.
We never could figure out why it had taken Metro PD so long (over 6 years) to try and recover the gun as it had been registered at least twice before I puchased it.
#2
Last year in AZ, my current residence, I purchased a Colt SAA at the local swap meet. I called the local Sheriff Department for a NCIC check and was told the gun was "clean". I then purchased the gun.
A week later the SO called and wanted the gun as it had just been reported stolen. I went down and turned the gun in.
No arrests have been made, the case is still open and the orginial owner has had the gun returned to him.
In 1987 I purchased a model 28 S&W from a gun shop "A" in Las Vegas Nevada. I kept the gun almost 2 years and then traded it to another Las Vegas gun shop "B" that I frequented a lot.
Four days after I traded it. A Las Vegas Metro Detective called me and wanted me to turn in the gun as it had been reported stolen, several years before.
In Las Vegas and/or Clark Country Nevada ever handgun that is purchased is required to be registed at the time of sale with the Las Vegas Police department. Being caught with a unregistered handgun can result in an arrest and confiscation of the handgun. Even private sales are require the buyer to register the handgun with the PD.
I informed the Detective that I had traded the gun in to Gunshop "B". and the fun began.
I was threaten with arrest, called a liar on and on. When the Detective finally calmed down enought to listen He agreeded to check my tale out and again threaten with me arrest Etc if the tale was untrue.
The bottom line is that the handgun had been stolen from gun shop "B" and had been through several registered owners before I had purchased the gun.
The detective didn't want to beleive that I had traded the gun to gun shop "B" where it had previously been stolen from.
Gun shop "B" had not checked the handgun since I had the registration card in my name and it was dated almost two years previously and they knew me.
Gunshop "B" had resold the gun two days after I had traded it in to a out of state dealer.
The Metro Detective after confirming my tale, insisted that gunshop "B" contact the out of state dealer, retrive the handgun, turn it into the Las Vegas Metro PD for processing and eventually it would be returned to gunshop "B",
The owner of Gunshop "B" informed the Metro Detective that if he wanted the handgun he had to contact the out of state dealer himself and retrive the gun. They also went around and around over the stolen gun.
The Metro Detective never contacted the out of state dealer.
Finally the gun was taken out of NCIC and marked as recovered.
The owner of gunshop "B" and I have had several laughs and shared a beer or two over the years concerning this incident.
We never could figure out why it had taken Metro PD so long (over 6 years) to try and recover the gun as it had been registered at least twice before I puchased it.
#2
Last year in AZ, my current residence, I purchased a Colt SAA at the local swap meet. I called the local Sheriff Department for a NCIC check and was told the gun was "clean". I then purchased the gun.
A week later the SO called and wanted the gun as it had just been reported stolen. I went down and turned the gun in.
No arrests have been made, the case is still open and the orginial owner has had the gun returned to him.
riptrack44
Member
I wonder how many stolen guns are parted out? Lots of stolen cars meet that fate. Probably very few since most perps who steal guns are more than likely punk cat burglers, meth heads or dumber than a sack of hammers...
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I spent several years as a detective investigating business and home burglaries. Before that I spent more than 10 years in patrol taking burglary reports several times every week, sometimes every day. One thing that stuck out was that very few gun owners had any record of their guns' serial numbers. Maybe 10% of the stolen guns ended up on NCIC. Owners were likely to remember the brand, maybe, and the caliber and that was about it.
"It'll be easy to spot, Deputy! It's a Smith & Weston, or maybe a Colt, it's black, got wooden handles and there's a big scratch on the side!"
I remember one guy that had an extremely nice older Colt Police Positive stolen by his daughter's junkie boyfriend. He still had it when we arrested him. The owner didn't know the serial number. The gun was exactly as described by the owner, except it was nickel plated and the owner remembered it as blue. He insisted it was blue. The prosecutor wasn't going to charge the thief with possession of a stolen gun because the owner couldn't describe it adequately. I finally got the charge after a long interview and the thief finally admitted that he stole the gun from the old guy's house. It would have been so much simpler if he had recorded the serial number!
"It'll be easy to spot, Deputy! It's a Smith & Weston, or maybe a Colt, it's black, got wooden handles and there's a big scratch on the side!"
I remember one guy that had an extremely nice older Colt Police Positive stolen by his daughter's junkie boyfriend. He still had it when we arrested him. The owner didn't know the serial number. The gun was exactly as described by the owner, except it was nickel plated and the owner remembered it as blue. He insisted it was blue. The prosecutor wasn't going to charge the thief with possession of a stolen gun because the owner couldn't describe it adequately. I finally got the charge after a long interview and the thief finally admitted that he stole the gun from the old guy's house. It would have been so much simpler if he had recorded the serial number!
SEG
Member
I take a photo of every firearm I purchase( alot easier with computers, now), mainly for insurance purposes. Store the info on a cd w/ Photo,# , date and seller. I haven't every needed it, but its nice to know I got it. There are some simple programs where you can link the photo to the information. I also include cost and FFL, on a few I linked the value of it.
smith41mag
Member
Explain how you do your background check?
When a person fills out a 4473 I then enter the person and the gun into the TICS (Tennessee instant check system) they then enter the info into NICS, and then we get and proceed or denied. A few times the gun has ended up being stolen and TICS calls us.
Tim - here in Alabama when the shopkeeper (FFL) calls in the 4473, they are checking the person only and are only asked what type of firearm sale (i.e. "handgun").
At no time do they ask for the serial number of the gun.
The serial number is recorded on the form and then kept on premise.
Apparently Tennessee has an additional State requirement that doesn't happen in other states
At no time do they ask for the serial number of the gun.
The serial number is recorded on the form and then kept on premise.
Apparently Tennessee has an additional State requirement that doesn't happen in other states
Bullseye Smith
Member
Fill out the form and call the ATF (877-324-6427) They ask for passwork, lic #, where are you, bussiness hours,name, address, ss number, what kind of gun, then they tell you if they pass or on hold , or turned down. That's it-
smith41mag
Member
I think your probably correct. Here in TN we must enter the firearm being purchased with the S/N make , model , Cal.
It may be a Tn thig.
It may be a Tn thig.
I bought it with a credit card originally and they gave me cash back. I stood there to listed when they called the officer back...leaving a voice mail about getting the gun back. I also left the cop a voice mail (he left me his card) and said what happened. I'm pretty friendly with the guy at the pawn shop...so I don't think it was any funny business on his part. He told me that the guy who stole it is currently in prison for a long line of stuff he did and that they knew only a part of it...since it involved a number of other shops and businesses as well that the bad guy ripped off. I do keep a list of all the guns I own with serial numbers, prices, descriptions, etc. in a safe place (both a hard copy and digitally stored) and I think it might be a good idea to do the picture idea as well. Maybe over my Thanksgiving break I'll get that undertaking done. That's about all the detail I have to give. I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else here, since it was beautiful gun that I got for a "steal"!
animalmother
Member
Sorry to hear about what happened to you. Did you follow up to see if that original owner did in fact get his gun back?
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
