Straighten extractor rod on Model 63

[Nightowl]

The extractor rod on my 63 is just slightly bent, not much just a bit. Maybe not even enough to worry about. But, I went to work on it and the cylinder will not fit into the normal armorers fixture for either a J frame or the KLN fixture.

Anyone have a method to straighten the rod without using these fixtures?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[chief38]

The extractor rod on my 63 is just slightly bent, not much just a bit. Maybe not even enough to worry about. But, I went to work on it and the cylinder will not fit into the normal armorers fixture for either a J frame or the KLN fixture.

Anyone have a method to straighten the rod without using these fixtures?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Truth be told, there are very few Extractor Rods that are truly straight! Most seem to have some slight wobble however as long as they do not rub against anything and function smoothly, it matters not. If you do have rubbing or any hesitation what-so-ever, then it can be straightened.

Again, I use my drill Press Jacobs Chuck to take the ER out of the Cylinder. I also use the DP Chuck (all by hand - pull the plug out of the wall on the Drill Press) and a hammer to straighten the ER out. A Dial Indicator Gauge and Mount can be helpful to find out where and in what direction the correction needs to be done - but if you don't have one available - your eyes usually work more than good enough. You can lock the ER into the Chuck at different points to move the ER at different spots along it's length. I doubt there are many S&W's that have 100% perfectly straight ER's but thankfully there is enough tolerance built in that they don't have to be 100% perfect.

Again....... if you have proper function, no binding or rubbing - leave well enough alone.

 

[armorer951]

The problem is not with the extractor rod itself being "bent", but with the relationship between the threaded areas of the rod and the extractor body. This interface also has the extractor rod collar between the two pieces, which just adds another variable.

When you "straighten" the extractor rod, you are actually just truing up the run out in this assembly after tightening.
More often than not, this run out on the extractor rod itself must be trued up every time the cylinder assembly has to be disassembled/reassembled.

 

[Nightowl]

Thanks for the information. I don't have a drill press, so that process is out. In truth, I don't think I have ever been able to eliminate run out of any extractor rod, but have got them functionally straight. I doubt the run out on the 63 is bad enough to try to correct, but I will shoot it some more.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[lefty_jake]

When you "straighten" the extractor rod, you are actually just truing up the run out in this assembly after tightening.
More often than not, this run out on the extractor rod itself must be trued up every time the cylinder assembly has to be disassembled/reassembled.

Nicely stated armorer951. The first time I encountered this problem, it caught me off guard. I had disassembled a cylinder assembly, and then carefully reassembled it. It ended up with a large amount of run-out on the extractor rod, so I assumed I did something wrong. I disassembled and reassembled it a couple of times, before I concluded it really was properly assembled. So I trued it up, and went on with things.

I believe this issue is badly oversimplified in many documents that explain how to install endshake shims, but fail to mention that the extractor rod may need truing at the end. When working with mechanical devices, there can be things which are easy to disassemble, but tricky to put back together correctly. These areas need special mention, and the extractor rod is one of them.

 

[WR Moore]

In a long ago series of magazine articles on building revolvers, Ron Power was reported to say that once the ejector rod/cylinder had been trued, the assembly wasn't supposed to be taken apart. [Obviously, it would have to be at some point, but as noted above, then re-truing would be necessary.]

I've used a lathe chuck and a dial indicator to get the ejector rod itself straight. Once that's done, what you'll often find is that the rod itself may not be concentric with the center pin. What you end up doing then, is determining if/where the extractor rod rubs against the yoke. If it does, some very gentle filing will remove the interference.

If revolvers weren't such a niche item these days, it'd probably be worth it for someone to make a run of tight tolerance collars to minimize the chance the collar could shift and throw alignment off.

 

[jmclfrsh]

So when you mention using a drill chuck, do you use it to hold the rod, spin by hand to see where it is bent, and slightly tap it with a brass hammer or the like to get it straight again?

 

[Hondo44]

Straightening Ext Rod:

Remove the rod, I and J frames are left hand thread after the war,
K and N frames are left hand thread after 1959 (-1 indicates the change).

Check for crookedness by rolling on flat surface like piece of glass, granite counter top, table saw, etc. The crooked area will show up easy. It will come to rest with high spot up. Mark high spot with felt tip pen.
Lay the rod on a lead ingot or piece of hard wood. Smack the high spot with lead hammer, rawhide hammer, or hard rubber/plastic tipped hammer.
Recheck by rolling on flat surface after each smack.

 

[chief38]

So when you mention using a drill chuck, do you use it to hold the rod, spin by hand to see where it is bent, and slightly tap it with a brass hammer or the like to get it straight again?

PULL OUT THE PLUG from the wall socket just to ensure the Drill Press does not accidentally turn on. Use the Drill's Chuck to hold the ER and find the way it needs to be adjusted by hand turning and noting the run-out. If it is a minor adjustment you can use a Brass Hammer to hit the ER in the proper direction. If you have a Dial Gauge and Dial Gauge Stand Holder you can actually use that to measure the run out. You can also insert the ER to the proper depth inside the Chuck so that you are correcting (bending it) it in the right place. If your ER is grossly out of round - do not try to correct in the Chuck - see below.

If the ER is really bent a lot, you can use a flat surface (Granite Counter Top, thick piece of glass, etc.) to see where it needs to be hit to bring it back in line. Straighten it out mostly on a flat steel surface and then use the Drill Press Chuck for fine adjustments. Never attempt to spin the Chuck using the Drill's Motor!

Use a marker to note where the ER has to be corrected and in which direction.

For the Drill Press chuck to be useful it needs to be sort of a robust Chuck and not a small lightweight one. If it is very light weight, the hammer blow will just move the whole Chuck with the ER in it and you won't be successful. If you have a heavy and strong chuck, minor adjustments are easy to do and like I said, the ER can be held at just the proper place where it needs to be corrected (bent).

 

[WR Moore]

If the ejector/extractor rod is bent enough that you need a hammer, I'd buy a new one and fit it properly. I managed to straighten the last one I worked on with my fingers. You still may find binding at the yoke due to various factors. Little Dykem and a very fine file takes care of that.

I'll also add that some rods are beyond saving.

 

[stu1ritter]

The problem is not with the extractor rod itself being "bent", but with the relationship between the threaded areas of the rod and the extractor body. This interface also has the extractor rod collar between the two pieces, which just adds another variable.

When you "straighten" the extractor rod, you are actually just truing up the run out in this assembly after tightening.
More often than not, this run out on the extractor rod itself must be trued up every time the cylinder assembly has to be disassembled/reassembled.

Any idea of what the actual allowable runout at the tip of the rod would be acceptable? I know we would like 0.000" but is there a spec? I've looked through the 3rd and 5th editions of Kuhnhausen and I can't find it.

thanks,

Stu

 

[Protocall_Design]

I don't know of a published spec. for that. It will be off center to one side, so as it turns it will be + one side of center, and 180 degrees it will be an equal amount - off center. In my experience, I would want it no more than + or - .005 max, that is still pretty visible as you spin the cylinder. I usually get them to + or - .002 or better in the jig. It's more difficult doing it essentially free hand though.

 

[Malamute]

I had a slightly bent rod in a 29 once. The wear on the rod from use was noticeably uneven, and if spun by hand with the cylinder out, it was obviously wobbling some. It had some light resistance when cycled DA or free spinning the cylinder in the frame. I bought a new rod, and have had no problems since.

 

[Hondo44]

I had a slightly bent rod in a 29 once. The wear on the rod from use was noticeably uneven, and if spun by hand with the cylinder out, it was obviously wobbling some. It had some light resistance when cycled DA or free spinning the cylinder in the frame. I bought a new rod, and have had no problems since.

That can be an option if the gun is new enough. Many models aren't however, and locating a replacement can be difficult to zero chance.

 

[stu1ritter]

Just found that the instructions in the Power Custom run out jig say .002" is the target runout.

Stu

 

[Nightowl]

Thanks for the info.