Targeting on the body question

[Protected One]

You are talking about muscle memory , the only way to train Nerve to the point that you can really depend on that muscle training is to expose yourself to that which you are unnerved by ( Gettin Shot At in this situation ) and nobody I know is willing to train for that . Being shot at ain't a sport . Not saying training ain't good and much needed but I am saying it will only get you so far .

If I got to bet my life on a guy with tons of training but not much nerve or one with hardly any training but all the nerve in the world you can put my bet on the latter . Next time you train get somebody to shoot at you and see how that works out for you .

Eddie

You make a good point. There have been many army rangers who, once the REAL shooting started, turned into, well... cowards.

 

[rwt1405]

Some of you might find this of interest.

Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job

One persons experience, but certainly "food for thought".

 

[rwt1405]

Yes, I am a fan of Mas Ayoob

5 Gunfighting Myths Debunked By Massad Ayoob

 

[ContinentalOp]

No. You have to look at my previous statement about training.

When under stress, you will fall back on how you practiced. This doesn't matter if that practice matches reality closely or not.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Sol-Invictus]

You are talking about muscle memory , the only way to train Nerve to the point that you can really depend on that muscle training is to expose yourself to that which you are unnerved by ( Gettin Shot At in this situation ) and nobody I know is willing to train for that . Being shot at ain't a sport . Not saying training ain't good and much needed but I am saying it will only get you so far .

If I got to bet my life on a guy with tons of training but not much nerve or one with hardly any training but all the nerve in the world you can put my bet on the latter . Next time you train get somebody to shoot at you and see how that works out for you .

Eddie

You are simply wrong. These are proven universal learning and performance principals. Your are presenting issues that are not relevant to performance factors.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Eddie Southgate]

You make a good point. There have been many army rangers who, once the REAL shooting started, turned into, well... cowards.

You are born with an instinct to survive that sometimes overcomes your training . Ain't everybody reacts the same. If you got the stand and fight in you the training helps , if you don't then no amount of training will likely make you a fighter . It may give you just enough confidence to get yourself killed .

Remember what John Wayne told Ronnie Howard in The Shootist ? I know it was a movie and what he said was just what was in the script but it is the truth if ever it was told , if you ain't willing to die for what you are fighting for that's likely to be what you do .

Eddie

 

[Mister X]

When under stress, you will fall back on how you practiced. This doesn't matter if that practice matches reality closely or not.

1. A lot depends on how much you have practiced.

2. And if your training doesn't match up to the reality of the defense scenario you're involved in, it may be impossible to utilize what you have practiced.

To use martial arts as an analogy...

- You'll see people with limited training not utilize anything they have learned in sparring or an actual fight.
- You'll see trained individuals who have undertaken training in a different, apparently more effective style/system, revert back to trying to utilize the old system when pressed.
-Not all techniques can be effectively utilized in all scenarios. An individual extensively trained solely in a long range system like Shotokan karate will generally try to utilize the methods of that style in all situations even when it's impossible since that is all they know. The reason they wouldn't be able to utilize the techniques the way they have practiced is lack of space, so they can't fall back on their training since it's physically impossible.

In shooting, we see poorly trained police officers demonstrating shooting methods very different from what they have practiced. If all you have practiced is static two-handed shooting with full extension at the range, but then you are involved in an ECQ defense scenario in which you have to fire while engaged in an entanglement, grounded, while in movement, or one handed, then it is impossible to fall back on your training since you have never practiced these skills.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Funniest thing I ever heard at training was an FBI instructor teaching defensive tactics who was in the process of getting up from the mat as he was saying "You didn't attack me properly for the technique we were practicing . . . "

 

[BE Mike]

I think a lot of that depends on how accurate your practice mirrors reality.

Practice is repeating something you already learned, be it something good or less than good. Training introduces new material or refining things previously learned. I know it may be splitting hairs to some, but it is important for us to think about what we are really doing at the range, if we are to improve.

 

[BE Mike]

Funniest thing I ever heard at training was an FBI instructor teaching defensive tactics who was in the process of getting up from the mat as he was saying "You didn't attack me properly for the technique we were practicing . . . "

Yep, training needs to be relevant. I remember a buddy who was going through "journeyman school" at FLETC. The instructor used him as a dummy and pushed him up against the wall. After the demonstration, my buddy told him, "That will be real useful, if I ever find a wall on the banks of the Rio Grande."

 

[Muss Muggins]

After the demonstration, my buddy told him, "That will be real useful, if I ever find a wall on the banks of the Rio Grande."

Well . . .

 

[Mister X]

Funniest thing I ever heard at training was an FBI instructor teaching defensive tactics who was in the process of getting up from the mat as he was saying "You didn't attack me properly for the technique we were practicing . . . "

You've repeated that story several times. I still don't see your point.

Were you actually fighting, going freestyle or just doing drills? That makes a pretty big difference.

If I asked about any pro-fighter or instructor on the planet to show me how he handles a left hook and he tells me to throw it in the context of teaching, but instead I suddenly shoot in for a double leg, they are not likely going to be able to defend it no matter who they are.

That being said, I've never been all that impressed with the vast majority of DT instructors I've come across. Maybe this guy just sucked.

 

[Mister X]

Practice is repeating something you already learned, be it something good or less than good. Training introduces new material or refining things previously learned. I know it may be splitting hairs to some, but it is important for us to think about what we are really doing at the range, if we are to improve.

Sure. I'm from a martial art background, the term training is almost exclusively used universally.

 

[Muss Muggins]

. . . That being said, I've never been all that impressed with the vast majority of DT instructors I've come across. . . .

Me either . . .

 

[Mister X]

Me either . . .

There is something else we agree on.

 

[Muss Muggins]

There is something else we agree on.

I think that's twice now in about two weeks. We're on a roll . . .

 

[DevilDog72]

This has become a very interesting thread, for me. A lot of ideas, suppositions and a little "my way is better than yours".
I for one, practice shooting different parts of the body for one reason... the dirtbag, we all hope to be ready for and still hope we never meet, will not present a silhouette target to us. I also practice point shooting out to 15 or so yards with strong and weak hand... I believe the hits no matter where on our antagonist land degrades him in his offensive intent and turns the tide making it possible for us to go on offense instead of strictly surprised defense. Shock and blood loss is our friend when the jerkwad is on the receiving end... yes he could still be in the fight, but, how determined is he/she going to remain in the face of a determined defense put up by John Q Citizen that has already drawn his blood and rendered his tissue with injury. It seems to me caliber and type of hand gun we prefer is a personal choice, they will all work.
A Texas Ranger friend of my dads(RIP) once told him, while I was sitting in the room with them, take what the bad guy offers until you have taken all he has.... that is how you win. This has stuck with me my whole life.

 

[TomkinsSP]

You make a good point. There have been many army rangers who, once the REAL shooting started, turned into, well... cowards.

And 100 pound women who turn into she-bears protecting their cubs.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Funniest thing I ever heard at training was an FBI instructor teaching defensive tactics who was in the process of getting up from the mat as he was saying "You didn't attack me properly for the technique we were practicing . . . "

So funny it's not funny (because it's true).