Testing LBT 180 grain .38 bullets

[AzShooter]

I casted up a few hundred bullets to test for accuracy and trying to get loads for USPSA and ICORE competition with my S&W 627.

The main problem I've come across is that published data seems to be running about 100 fps less than advertised. My first sessions have been filled with a number of powder charges causing primers to pop out of the cases.

Now that I'm producing loads in the 700 fps range accuracy is up and no more primer problems.

Best powders so far are Solo 1000, 231 and Unique.

My scope came loose last time out so accuracy was affected. I'm trying to get 1 inch groups from a rest at 50 yards. Best so far have been 3/4 in 5 shot groups st 25 with the other three making the groups about 1 1/2 inch.

Bullets are made with wheel weights, cast at 800 degrees and using LBT Blue lube.

 

[AzShooter]

I casted up a few hundred bullets to test for accuracy and trying to get loads for USPSA and ICORE competition with my S&W 627.

The main problem I've come across is that published data seems to be running about 100 fps less than advertised. My first sessions have been filled with a number of powder charges causing primers to pop out of the cases.

Now that I'm producing loads in the 700 fps range accuracy is up and no more primer problems.

Best powders so far are Solo 1000, 231 and Unique.

My scope came loose last time out so accuracy was affected. I'm trying to get 1 inch groups from a rest at 50 yards. Best so far have been 3/4 in 5 shot groups st 25 with the other three making the groups about 1 1/2 inch.

Bullets are made with wheel weights, cast at 800 degrees and using LBT Blue lube.

 

[OKFC05]

Well, you certainly have my curiosity up.
What's a model 626? Maybe a 686?

I've shot USPSA and ICORE with a 686, but never with 180gr bullets. You can get minor power factor with a 158gr bullet and a mild +P of HP38/231. (PF 125 for USPSA, 120 for ICORE)

I have never seen a scope used in ICORE or USPSA except for the dot sights on the open guns.

Considering that most USPSA and ICORE targets are shot fast at 20yd or less, I am frankly puzzled by concern about 1" groups at 50yd?

 

[AzShooter]

It's a secret I have the only one.


Jeese.... ONE LITTLE TYPO and I get caught.

The mould manufacturer says it's possible to get that kind of accuracy from these bullets. I know I don't need it but what the heck. May as well go for it.

When testing loads I find it best to use a scope. I normally shoot with iron sights, occationally with a red dot.

I've always found that my guns shoot better at about 130 power factor. Why just try to make the power floor? It's better to have a little edge and not worry about going around the country and having weather, humidity, temp affect your speed.

This bullet also lets me shoot major power factor for USPSA if I want with no problems. I can count to six so it's not a problem. If I get the accuracy I want I won't need to shoot Major. All A's will suffice. It's nice to experiment though.

 

[OKFC05]

My first sessions have been filled with a number of powder charges causing primers to pop out of the cases.

Not THAT is a real puzzler if you are loading to 130. My regular load with 158gr Berry and HP38 (PF near 135) is only a mild +P and the cases seem to last (almost) forever. Do you need to go to a slower powder with the 180gr to keep the pressure down?

I once shot my IDPA loads in a scoped 8" 686 and got consistent groups around 4" at 100yd. Declared success and kept loading it.
Sure you are not a silhouette shooter by heart?

 

[AzShooter]

Primers pop out of the cases because the charge is not hot enough.

There is not enough pressure generated to force the cartridge to press into the cylinder wall when fired. The lack of gas does not push the case, instead it simply pushes the primer out.

At first the loads I tested were getting under 670 fps which would just make ICORE minor. 690 would just make USPSA minor but again their wasn't enough pressure. Even at 690 a few primers came out.

That's why I now want at least 720 -730 fps. After that speed won't be as important as accuracy and I will keep testing .1 grain of a time with the best powder combinations.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a lighter bullet going faster the thing to do for this action type of shooting? Less dwell time, felt recoil and target reacquisition seem to be the better way to go, in my opinion.

822fps with a 158gr bullet would seem like a much nicer load to shoot. Or a 125gr @ 1040 too.
I cast both and I think I would go with the lightest bullet possible. That would be me though.

With the lighter bullets you would have a hard time making major though.

FWIW

 

[AzShooter]

Actually in a revolver without compensator you will notice less push from the heavier bullets. That's why the 230 grain is the champ with .45 ACP loads.

When Rob Leatham was shooting his .45s he tried everything and was shooting 230 grainers instead of lighter bullest from non compensated guns.

I've been shooting 158 - 160 grainers for 30 years in the .38s. I don't like the 125s because they have more felt recoil to me. I also don't enjoy the shock and noice from lighter bullets.

My best loads in .45 ACPs were 265 grain bullets. Slow, accurate and no recoil.

Experiment with some heavy bullets and you will see what I mean.

I also found 160 grain bullets in 9mm major shot softer, produced less pressure and were more accurate.

Same is true in the .38 short colt cases. It's easier to make minor with heavy bullets that with light bullets.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I too have shot mostly heavy for caliber bullets. I've NEVER noticed less recoil with any of them, never. Of course, I'm not trying to dribble one out of a barrel either. When I shoot heavy for caliber bullets, they are going the same velocity as the lighter ones, for the most part.

When I shoot PPC, I shoot the 45ACP most of the time. I load an 230gr bullet to 800fps or a 200gr LSWC at the same velocity. Don't tell me that the 230gr has less recoil than the 200gr, I've been shooting too long for that nonsense. That's why I developed the 200gr load, I wanted less recoil.

I understand about the 38/357 though as far as noise goes too. Without earplugs I would much rather shoot a full house 44mag than a moderate 357mag. There is an extremely sharp crack with the smaller caliber and it really hurts my ears, but with hearing protection it really doesn't matter. Doesn't your league require ear protection? It should.

At any rate, I understand about heavy for caliber bullets being easier to make minor.

 

[AzShooter]

Our range requires eye and ear protection. I already have to use hearing aides and do not want to loose the hearing that is left.

Some people find a load that works and are quite happy with that.

I love to reload and see what I can do with each of my rifle/pistols and tailoring loads is fun.

I may not end up using this load for competition but it sure is fun seeing if it works. BTW the manufactuerer states that it will give me 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I've never tried to hit at 100 yards with this pistol.

If I can get that kind of accuracy I may have to try the new short distance silouette and see what happens.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I've never tried to hit at 100 yards with this pistol.

My boys and I have fooled around with handguns at 100 yards before. I have one boy that is a preacher and he tells about a time when we were at the range and shooting clay pigeons laying on the berm at that distance. You know that he would never tell a lie!

At any rate, we hit them more than missed them, we did miss but .......