The Current CCW Environment

[glenncal1]

On Thursday last week I decided to go see the movie Lawless (which I liked BTW) and was just about in the garage when I realized I hadn't grabbed a CCW gun.

My first thought was, "oh now big deal, I am just going to the local theatre. Don't need to worry about carrying."

After the rest of my brain kicked in, "oh ****, it was just about a month ago that a nut job went to a movie theatre about 7 miles away and killed and wounded many people."

Back upstairs, gun in pocket, proceed to the movie. Kind of sad that you have to worry about being armed at the cinema.

 

[PDL]

Actually, the firearms should not be a second thought. It should be the first thing after the belt is buckled.
Not being overly paranoid, plenty of folks are being attacked in their own home.

 

[andrewb70]

On Thursday last week I decided to go see the movie Lawless (which I liked BTW) and was just about in the garage when I realized I hadn't grabbed a CCW gun.

My first thought was, "oh now big deal, I am just going to the local theatre. Don't need to worry about carrying."

After the rest of my brain kicked in, "oh ****, it was just about a month ago that a nut job went to a movie theatre about 7 miles away and killed and wounded many people."

Back upstairs, gun in pocket, proceed to the movie. Kind of sad that you have to worry about being armed at the cinema.

After the Colorado movie theater shooting, the local chain decided to make their theaters a "gun free zone."

I live in Memphis and all of the Malco theaters have posted sign. Needless to say, I am not going to the movies anytime soon.

Andrew

 

[woodsltc]

After the Colorado movie theater shooting, the local chain decided to make their theaters a "gun free zone."

I live in Memphis and all of the Malco theaters have posted sign. Needless to say, I am not going to the movies anytime soon.

Andrew

I consider the right to defend my life and the lives of my loved ones a God given right..........signs or no signs (unless it's a government building or school), my gun is in my pocket or in a well concealed holster and has been long before we had carry privileges.

Don

 

[Alpo]

Another of the joys of the free state of Florida, where "no guns" signs don't mean diddly.

Seems kinda weird, "I need to get a carry gun, because I'm going to a 'bad part of town' ". I got my pants on and I have a gun. Been that way since I got my carry permit. Why bother getting a permit if you're not going to carry all the time?

 

[andrewb70]

I consider the right to defend my life and the lives of my loved ones a God given right..........signs or no signs (unless it's a government building or school), my gun is in my pocket or in a well concealed holster and has been long before we had carry privileges.

Don

I completely understand your position. However, I have a different take and prefer to put pressure on a business by not giving them my money. A private business has a right to make any rules it wants. This is a fundamental part of the concept of free (voluntary) association. Thus, I choose not to associate with any business that does not allow me a means of defending myself. Going to the movies is optional and I have many other entertainment choices to choose from.

Andrew

 

[jaykellogg]

It is my understanding that the Colorado Theaters were "gun free zones" We saw how well that worked out.

It chaps my butt that the anti gun crowds response is to "ban guns". Then if something bad happens anyway they double down and want further restrictions on guns.

About the only place in the USA today you are truly safe from attack with a gun is after security at an airport. Ask yourselves, if we need that level of security to make it work, is it worth it? I mean, do you want to submit to a pat down and take your shoes off to see a movie? Do you want alarms at the exits and armed security in case someone tries to go out an unauthorized exit? I hear it has gotten to close to this in some urban schools.

The Arizona shooter, the Colorado shooter and the VA Tech shooter were all bouncing off the wall nuts. Yet no one thought it prudent to do anything about it other than to force them out of school (then it is somebody else's problem).

 

[26Ford]

Funny, anymore just where is " the bad part of town ". This very morning on Florida local news, since just last night at 6 PM mind you until 7 AM this morning- 3 shootings and 1 stabbing, 1 of the shootings were already listed a FATAL.

The jist of this post is that 2 of the 3 shootings and the 1 stabbing were in Palm Beach County and the stabbing in Wellington. In case you don't know, Wellington is quite nice, actually very very nice!!!!, and the other 2 incidents in Palm beach County were also fairly nice areas for anyone here to live in.

You that have a legal right to Conceal carry a gun- DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Road Rat]

The best way to work on this issue is to:


Tell the theater owner/operator...............here you are preaching to the choir.....

I made up some of these and freely hand them out to the people working at places with the no gun signs............some have taken the signs down!!
Concealed Carry Business Cards, 4 Concealed Carry Business Card Templates

 

[jaykellogg]

How about I have talked with my attorney and he tells me that since your sign deprives me of the right of self defense that your establishment has assumed that responsability.

 

[andrewb70]

How about I have talked with my attorney and he tells me that since your sign deprives me of the right of self defense that your establishment has assumed that responsability.

I think this might be a stretch because visiting any establishment is voluntary. I do not HAVE to go to the movies. I do not HAVE to go to a restaurant that has a "no gun policy."

If there is an establishment that prohibits firearms, then the proper thing to do is to stop being their customer. It is that simple.

Andrew

 

[old bear]

Kind of sad that you have to worry about being armed at the cinema.

Or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[DWalt]

With a few exceptions, I ignore those signs. If your CCW is actually concealed as it should be, who is to know whether I have one or not?

 

[duppie]

On Thursday last week I decided to go see the movie Lawless (which I liked BTW) and was just about in the garage when I realized I hadn't grabbed a CCW gun.

My first thought was, "oh now big deal, I am just going to the local theatre. Don't need to worry about carrying."

After the rest of my brain kicked in, "oh ****, it was just about a month ago that a nut job went to a movie theatre about 7 miles away and killed and wounded many people."

Back upstairs, gun in pocket, proceed to the movie. Kind of sad that you have to worry about being armed at the cinema.

You at least have the ability to carry, here in New Jersey we have about 1400 CCWs for in excess of 4 million residents, where you have to be a LEO,ex LEO,armored guard, or politically connected to warrant a CCW. We have come to the realization that we are all fair game for the criminals and polititions, which in NJ is unfortunately the same.

 

[wbraswell]

DWalt made me think. I know if an officer asks, you tell him, if you're armed. If someone else asks, like a proprietor, are you obligated to tell him?

 

[Alpo]

Why would you be? If he asks "boxers or briefs?", would you answer that?

 

[jframe]

Put simply, I carry concealed everywhere, all the time. I have a snub Model 19 next to me as I type this, and an old, cut down 870 Wingmaster hanging in the closet loaded with slug, then No. 4, slug, No. 4. Not only don't leave home without it, don't STAY at home without it close either.

 

[RightArm]

Didn't the wierdo in Colorado go out the emergency exit, load up, then come bak through the same way guns blazing. A gun free zone obviously only left all other customers in jeopardy.
Sorry if this has already been covered.

 

[jaykellogg]

I think this might be a stretch
Andrew

I asked my CCW instructor who was a Deputy Sheriff in Heywood county about the no carry signs and he had two things to say. One is "if they deny you the ability to protect yourself they assume that duty." The second is "What part of concealed is it that you don't understand". We're not talking about government buildings and schools, the penalties there are severe. Carrying where there is a sign prohibiting it is a misdemeanor. The guy wasn't a lawyer, so I do not know how much you can depend on the first statement. I would investigate that option if I survived an attack where I wasn't allowed to carry. I cannot understand why the law is even written this way. They took three months to investigate me and then let some shopkeeper prohibit me from carrying.

 

[redlevel]

I asked my CCW instructor who was a Deputy Sheriff in Heywood county about the no carry signs and he had two things to say. One is "if they deny you the ability to protect yourself they assume that duty."
...........
I cannot understand why the law is even written this way. They took three months to investigate me and then let some shopkeeper prohibit me from carrying.

You ever hear of private property rights?

 

[MP22]

You have to respect private property. Just because you have a CC permit..just as I do...don't mean you are above the law.

 

[StatesRightist]

Private property residential rights are not the same as a business. That is legal fact, not personal opinion. If your business is in your home, then you might have an argument. Otherwise, the correct term is business property, there is a reason the law makes distinction between the two, your "rights" are different on each of those types of property.

I love the private property argument some make, feel free to let the guy shooting you he's violating not only your rights, but the business owners as well. So if that stops him.

Business rights do not include your ability to make others a target. If you provide armed security and walk outs to the parking lot, then you have a legitimate moral argument. It has nothing to do with being above the law, it has to with moral imperatives. A person's right to life supersedes your personal preferences. That has been a philosophical given for centuries now.

Don't get me wrong if the sign discourages your from carrying, follow your conscience. It is not a black and white issue, at least for a thinking person it's not. There are valid arguments both ways. I see both points, it falls on you to make the decsion and then live with the choice.

 

[redlevel]

Private property residential rights are not the same as a business. That is legal fact, not personal opinion. If your business is in your home, then you might have an argument. Otherwise, the correct term is business property, there is a reason the law makes distinction between the two, your "rights" are different on each of those types of property.

I love the private property argument some make, feel free to let the guy shooting you he's violating not only your rights, but the business owners as well. So if that stops him.

Business rights do not include your ability to make others a target. If you provide armed security and walk outs to the parking lot, then you have a legitimate moral argument. It has nothing to do with being above the law, it has to with moral imperatives. A person's right to life supersedes your personal preferences. That has been a philosophical given for centuries now.

Don't get me wrong if the sign discourages your from carrying, follow your conscience. It is not a black and white issue, at least for a thinking person it's not. There are valid arguments both ways. I see both points, it falls on you to make the decsion and then live with the choice.

No shirt, no shoes, no service!!

You show me a legal opinion issued by case law or legislation that says that if I own a restaurant and have a no guns policy, then I am responsible for your defense against armed violence.

Private property rights are the most important thing protected by the Constitution. In fact, that is the reason we have a Constitution.

The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their property. ~John Locke

 

[StatesRightist]

No shirt, no shoes, no service!!

You show me a legal opinion issued by case law or legislation that says that if I own a restaurant and have a no guns policy, then I am responsible for your defense against armed violence.

Private property rights are the most important thing protected by the Constitution. In fact, that is the reason we have a Constitution.

How many suits do you think have been filed in Aurora, VA Tech etc? The basis of all of them is failure to provide a safe environment. How you get to that conclusion is based on a set of events/arguments, not a single argument, not allowing guns was mentioned in the VA Tech arguments, but certainly was not a singular factor in the suits, nor even a primary one. However,the concept of suing someone after a shooting because of CCW denial is a case the NRA freely admits to looking for the right test case to bring suit on.

You missed my point on property rights, what I said was 1. There is a legally recognized difference between your home and business and the rights you have in each. 2. I said I saw both sides of the argument. You also skipped right over the moral imperative vs legality decision each person has to make. No one is debating your ability to stick a sign in the window, but what that sign truly means.

Nice Locke quote, It shows you truly care about the basis of our Government and are a fellow Patriot!

 

[luangtom]

On Thursday last week I decided to go see the movie Lawless (which I liked BTW) and was just about in the garage when I realized I hadn't grabbed a CCW gun.

My first thought was, "oh now big deal, I am just going to the local theatre. Don't need to worry about carrying."

After the rest of my brain kicked in, "oh ****, it was just about a month ago that a nut job went to a movie theatre about 7 miles away and killed and wounded many people."

Back upstairs, gun in pocket, proceed to the movie. Kind of sad that you have to worry about being armed at the cinema.

Yup, it is. It is equally sad that around here they wand you now to make sure you are not carrying, even with a GWCL in yer wallet. It sucks.

 

[bp231986]

Actually, the firearms should not be a second thought. It should be the first thing after the belt is buckled.
Not being overly paranoid, plenty of folks are being attacked in their own home.

Thats why i even carry at home, doing the dishes, wacthing a movie or whatever i might be doing i carry. I hate to be downstairs have someone smash in the house and my guns all be upstairs.

 

[andrewb70]

Private property residential rights are not the same as a business. That is legal fact, not personal opinion. If your business is in your home, then you might have an argument. Otherwise, the correct term is business property, there is a reason the law makes distinction between the two, your "rights" are different on each of those types of property.

I love the private property argument some make, feel free to let the guy shooting you he's violating not only your rights, but the business owners as well. So if that stops him.

Business rights do not include your ability to make others a target. If you provide armed security and walk outs to the parking lot, then you have a legitimate moral argument. It has nothing to do with being above the law, it has to with moral imperatives. A person's right to life supersedes your personal preferences. That has been a philosophical given for centuries now.

Don't get me wrong if the sign discourages your from carrying, follow your conscience. It is not a black and white issue, at least for a thinking person it's not. There are valid arguments both ways. I see both points, it falls on you to make the decsion and then live with the choice.

You Sir make a convincing argument, but you are missing one critical point that renders it null and void; your presence inside any private business establishment is strictly VOLUNTARY! Let me elaborate.

We (thankfully) live in a society that offers us many choices when it comes to where we procure food, drink, entertainment, clothing, etc...Individuals enter a place of business on a voluntary basis for the purpose of mutually beneficial exchange. When I visit a grocer it is because I prefer to have food instead of the money in my pocket. The grocer prefers to have the money in my pocket instead of the food on his shelves. By definition, exchange can only take place when both parties have the desire, ability, and the means to facilitate said exchange, otherwise the exchange cannot take place. Exchange, also by definition, is voluntary. Every individual chooses numerous exchanges throughout the day.

Let's get back on point. When a business places a "no guns sign" on its door it sends a certain signal. Some perceive (incorrectly) that the business is looking out for my best interest. We all know better, because we know that "gun free" zones are more dangerous. However, what we think and what we know is irrelevant because doing business with any establishment is voluntary. So if a business chooses to not allow gun (or swords, or knives, or people wearing purple for that matter) is their prerogative. I in turn have a choice to make. I either respect their wishes and enter the establishment without my gun (or not wear purple) or I choose another establishment that does not have said rules. It is that simple...

I will even go one step further and state that it is immoral for anyone to NOT respect the wishes of the business establishment because not doing so is an act of aggression. Exerting aggression when none was exerted towards me is immoral.

Andrew

 

[Armed Babysitter]

As long as it isn't State or Federally prohibited, gun buster signs aren't worth the paper they're printed on here, legally speaking.

When we are talking whether or not to ignore no gun signs, just ask yourself, Where is my gun the most secure, in the glove box where it could be stolen, or concealed in a holster on my hip?

 

[jaykellogg]

I was licensed to carry in PA, but when I was transferred to North Carolina I discovered all kinds of places you are not allowed to carry. There are no gun signs on the door going into the Asheville Mall. Also NC is an open carry state. So I really do not need a license to carry in the car as long as the gun is visible. In PA, you needed a license to carry, even when hunting. Their license (at the time) said Hunting, fishing, target, protection. Where I lived the Sheriff would cross off either Hunting, Fishing, Target or Protection. Protection allowed you to carry concealed. I was advised I could carry anywhere except at night with a strong light in the car. Having a light and a firearm was prima facie evidence of jack lighting. I am confident that now in PA you are not allowed to carry in Govt buildings or on school property.

In NC the Carry license didn't make much sense until the Government said if you are legally allowed to carry in the state you live in you can carry in federal parks. I then got the license. It still galls me that I had to pay a lot of money for the license and wait while they investigated me, yet some businesses do not allow me to carry on the premises. Also, according to state law, If I eat in a restaurant that serves alcohol I cannot carry there. I call these "feel good" laws. it feels good to pass them. Everybody knows if you allow people to carry in bars there will be gunfights all over, right? No, these laws weren't passed because of a problem, they were passed to make certain people feel good. If you go to a mall, theater, any business where carrying is prohibited do you think there are not people carrying weapons? LEOs are allowed to carry there. There have been several high profile mass shootings in gun free zones. I am not aware of any evidence that gun free zones reduce violence. Conversely, I am not aware of any mass shootings involving gun free zones that the shooter specifically selected because he thought he was less likely to encounter armed resistance. In the Gifford's AZ shooting there were folks carrying there that were unable to use their arms to stop the shooter. In Columbine, VA Tech and Aurora, CO. I know of no reasons why the shooter selected these targets that involve there not being guns.

IMO, the gun free zones provide no safety and are a pita to lawfully licensed folks. Everyone knows (everyone here anyway) that do not carry only applies to honest folks. It is a little like me parking my car with the top down and an expensive camera on the seat and leaving a sign "Do not take this camera."

 

[TexasArmed]

No shirt, no shoes, no service!!

You show me a legal opinion issued by case law or legislation that says that if I own a restaurant and have a no guns policy, then I am responsible for your defense against armed violence.

Private property rights are the most important thing protected by the Constitution. In fact, that is the reason we have a Constitution.

The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their property. ~John Locke

That sign unless it is 30.06 sign is not enforceable in my state so I would and do ignore it in restaurants unless it is a 30.06 enforceable sign in Texas. If it is a legally enforceable sign I won't eat there, and I will not allow anyone visiting me from another state, to go there, and just explain to them that the food isn't that good there, and that area is quite dangerous for patrons. I have also posted negative reviews for other reasons for restaurants that I do not like.
They have a right to run their business as they want to, but do not have a right to search me, without probable cause, nor to enforce a non enforceable sign. I have an obligation to leave if they ask me, and can take my business and encourage others to avoid the restaurant.

It was a mass shooting in a Luby's Cafeteria in Texas that started concealed carry in Texas. If property rights of business were equal with that of private property, then any sign could be posted to prohibit anyone of a different race from coming there. Try that with a business now, and the business might get shut down.