THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION

[chief38]

This is not the first time I have discussed this subject but since it does seem to come up from time to time I figured I'd post this again. The costs below are from what I have personally purchased in the recent past.

Let's say one is going to buy a Reloading Outfit to load .38 Special, .45 acp and .45 Colt. I am NOT including the cost of the Brass because IMHO there is no reason to buy it! Almost any Range is laden with once fired Brass in these popular calibers and it is there for the taking. My Club Ranges are so heavily littered with perfectly serviceable Brass I always tell new guys getting into reloading NOT to buy the cases. I would have a hard time believing your local Ranges are any different. I have given out thousands and thousands of Brass to new Re-loaders just to get them started. OK - so let's say the Brass is free.

Bullet heads for target shooting that I use are lead. I pay 0.089 cents for a 230 grain .45 acp bullet, 0.065 cents for a 158 grain RNL bullet and 0.100 cents for a .45 Colt 255 RNFP bullet all from Dardas Cast Bullets which I think are very good quality.

I use Titegroup for .38 Spl and .357 Mag, W231 for .45 acp and Unique for .45 Colt. Since all of those powders all cost about $20 / lb (I buy 8 pound cans).

Primers are selling for about $28 - $30 bucks per 1000 so that comes to about 0.030 each.

OK - now the math......

.38 special

cartridge Case.......... FREE
Bullet ..................... 6.5 cents
Powder.................... 1.0 cent
Primer..................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL..................... 10.5 cents / rnd x 50 = $5.50 /box of 50


.45 acp

Cartridge Case........... FREE
Bullet........................ 9 cents
Powder...................... 1.3 cents
Primer....................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL....................... 13.3 cents / rnd x 50 = $6.65/box of 50


.45 Colt

Cartridge Case .......... FREE
Bullet....................... 10 cents
Powder..................... 2.3 cents
Primer...................... 3 cents

TOTAL....................... 15.3 cents each x 50 = $7.65/box of 50

There are 7000 grains of powder in a pound so you can divide how many grains of powder you are using into 7000 and come up with cost per round based on your price per pound.

A GOOD reloading outfit can certainly be purchased for $1500.00 or so. If you save $15 per box over name brand Factory ammo (average of course - some more some less) and you take the $1500 equipment cost and divide it by the savings per box ( 1500 / 15 = 100 boxes of ammo) you will break even and pay for all your equipment after 100 boxes or 5,000 rounds.

While I don't know how long it would take you guys to shoot 5,000 rounds I know I go through that in about 6 months. So that is my perspective on just how fast reloading equipment and components will pay for themselves. Slightly longer if you buy super premium equipment and slightly less if you buy budget stuff. I suppose it also depends on what bullets you shoot but for Target shooting I have no problem using lead cast bullets.

OTHER THAN DOLLARS AND CENTS NOW:

Many guys like myself are serious target shooters and like shooting very accurate and slightly lighter recoiling bullets. I load my target ammo to respectable velocities but not up to defensive ammo velocities. So you can custom tune your own loads to your personal needs.

Many guys find reloading relaxing and enjoyable (I am not really one of them and usually load in bulk - then cover the press again). That's a personal opinion of course.

Once components are procured you never loose the ability to roll your own no matter what the political climate is. Since components last virtually forever if stored properly, you can but in bulk when one of the larger suppliers runs a sale and offers free shipping and NO Haz-Mat fees.

So there is my take on re-loading for those of you who are thinking about taking the plunge!

Regards,
Chief38

 

[Rule3]

Nice write up Chief. Only thing I would question is the "free" 45 Colt brass or 357 for that matter. I never see those laying around. But that said once you have some you are good to go.

 

[sw282]

l suppose the COST savings of hand loading is the primary motivator for most..

Mine is to be able to Custom Tailor a load to a firearm for a specific use.

Example-- l wanted to shoot my S&W 460 PC gun in IHMSA Field Pistol Class..

The 100yd targets are limited to 44Magnum power levels for that class.

We all know a 460S&W has a bit MORE power than Ole Elmer's favorite..

And l had previously learned the HARD way that ''MY 460'' does NOT like

the shorter 45 Colt rds fired in Her... So l had to come up with a custom

load with 44Magnum Power levels in the long 460 S&W case. Fortunately

there is published data out there that meets those requirements... That

kind of ammo virtually UNOBTANIUM... YOU have to load your OWN...

 

[chief38]

Nice write up Chief. Only thing I would question is the "free" 45 Colt brass or 357 for that matter. I never see those laying around. But that said once you have some you are good to go.

Rule3,

I think that since Cowboy Action Shooting became so popular in the 90's (at least around my home town) many of us either purchased or resurrected our Lever Actions and Single Action Army Revolvers in .45 Colt. Years before I got involved with SASS Matches, I owned and shot a Marlin 1894CS and Colt SAA in .45 Colt. I also believe that the S&W M25 helped put that cartridge back on the map - so to speak. The S&W Governor, the Taurus Judge and similar wheel guns have also increased sales of the vulnerable .45 Colt cartridge. In any event....... I will not say the.45 Colt is anywhere near as popular as the 38 spl, ,45 acp, 9mm, .40 S&W, or .380 but I will say that other than purchasing 250 Nickel Plated cases (to look good at SASS Matches) I do not ever remember buying any and I have thousands of them. Even at the SASS matches you would not believe how many shooters did NOT re-load and just gave away their Brass.

So yes you are correct in saying the .45 Colt would presumably be a bit more difficult to find for free, but doable if persistent. The other calibers I mentioned above are all over my Club's Ranges and a piece of cake to find. We have several 30 gallon Steel pails just full of once fired Brass and occasionally we will dump one and take what we want. Some guys are nice enough to even put every cartridge back into the box inserts, reinsert them back into the box and throw into the pails.

 

[hammer 1]

I agree with it all, but, the revolver brass, but 100 pieces of brass, last a long time. I have been getting 357, and 41 mag Starline brass, at candles for 24 bucks for 41, and 21 for 357. Abuddy gave me 1200 chrome plated 38 special brass, that will last me forever

 

[Troystat]

Nice write up, I would say a good reloading outfit can be had for less than 1500 dollars unless you really need a progressive press. At my range they don't like you picking up brass that is not your own but I often get extra 45 acp brass when I am there, these days 38 special and 357 are very rare to find lying around though. Plenty of 40 and 9mm though.

 

[muddocktor]

Nice write up chief38, except that I take issue with you calling a bullet a "bullet head". A bullet head to me is someone with a shaved, pointy crowned top of their head and not something installed on top of a cartridge case.

 

[chief38]

Nice write up chief38, except that I take issue with you calling a bullet a "bullet head". A bullet head to me is someone with a shaved, pointy crowned top of their head and not something installed on top of a cartridge case.

Semantics I guess..........

Back in the day of the Lone Ranger, they use to call the entire cartridge a bullet. Now people call the projectile the bullet. Some call the whole thing a bullet and designate the projectile as bullet head.

Now days when I refer to a drill (the part that actually does the hoile cutting) a drill bit, some guys freak out!

If that's the only critisizm here I can easily deal with that!

 

[mtgianni]

No freaking out just tell them the drill bit goes into the drill motor. Nice write up.

 

[chief38]

Nice write up, I would say a good reloading outfit can be had for less than 1500 dollars unless you really need a progressive press. At my range they don't like you picking up brass that is not your own but I often get extra 45 acp brass when I am there, these days 38 special and 357 are very rare to find lying around though. Plenty of 40 and 9mm though.

I belong to three Ranges and none care what you take. Some days I simply can not believe what is in the Brass Buckets! Last month I found 500 pieces .223 NICKEL once fired in their original boxes! - too bad I don't have an AR.

One of my Clubs allow the Police and the Fed's to use our pistol Range for their competitions and they never have any problems finding enough of us to help sweep up all the empties.

Now days (at least for the most part) I don't look too hard anymore. I've got enough Brass to last me two lifetimes. If there are once fired complete boxes of calibers I shoot I'll grab a few boxes, but now I'll alert my shooting buddy's to help themselves.

I've gotten 3 guys into reloading over the last few years and so far NONE have bought one single case (with the exception of one guy who shoots .38 Super which IS hard to find). Even they are now saying they have plenty. We also help each other out, I shoot a LOT of Trap, Skeet and Sporting Clays and have no interest in reloading Shot Shells - I give them away. I can buy them so cheap I don't bother. On the other hand there are guys who shoot .45 acp, .357 Mag and 38 Spl. who offer them to me.

 

[Alk8944]

Semantics I guess..........

Back in the day of the Lone Ranger, they use to call the entire cartridge a bullet. Now people call the projectile the bullet. Some call the whole thing a bullet and designate the projectile as bullet head.

Now days when I refer to a drill (the part that actually does the hoile cutting) a drill bit, some guys freak out!

If that's the only critisizm here I can easily deal with that!

No, not semantics, but a pretty good indicator that you are from New York or somewhere in New England, or the Chicago area. People from these areas are the only ones I have ever heard referring to bullet as a "bullet head" or just "head". Note: The cartridge "head" is on the back end, where the primer is.

Look it up in the dictionary, you will not find "head" ever defied as a bullet or projectile. Have you ever bought a box of Hornady, Speer, Sierra, etc, "projectiles" that were labelled as "heads"??? Bet you haven't. Or bought a bullet mold (or mould) labeled as a "head mold"? Again, bet you haven't!

 

[chief38]

No, not semantics, but a pretty good indicator that you are from New York or somewhere in New England, or the Chicago area. People from these areas are the only ones I have ever heard referring to bullet as a "bullet head" or just "head". Note: The cartridge "head" is on the back end, where the primer is.

Look it up in the dictionary, you will not find "head" ever defied as a bullet or projectile. Have you ever bought a box of Hornady, Speer, Sierra, etc, "projectiles" that were labelled as "heads"??? Bet you haven't. Or bought a bullet mold (or mould) labeled as a "head mold"? Again, bet you haven't!

I'll take your word for it. I've heard them called all of the above and have used different terms at different times myself. For some reason I am not a stickler on this one (I usually am a Ball Buster), but I am as adamant as you are when people call a Magazine a Clip. So therefore next time do a write up like this one I will refer back to your post.

 

[g8rb8]

Ditto - Nice write up.

I would add to the "sense" (reasons to reload):
-Being able to produce your own ammunition when availability is not so good. I remember times when various calibers I like to shoot were hard to come by.
-Sense of accomplishment. Reloading is not rocket science but I suspect most people enjoy making and using a product they made themselves, akin to home-made cookies versus store bought cookies.

 

[hdwhit]

Even considering that the equipment is fully amortized, there is still the value of your time.

I shoot jacketed bullets on almost all of my reloads and they are a little more expensive than cast lead bullets, so my cost per 50 round box of 38 Special comes out closer to $12.

If I add in the value of my time that box comes in closer to $90. So, unless you want to "sell" your reloading time for about the same hourly wage as a child chained to a sewing machine in a Bangladesh shirt factory, don't do it to "save" money.

 

[muddocktor]

hdwit, you are buying the wrong bullets if it costs you $0.24 a round for 38 Special. Zero bullets sells 158 grain JHP bullets for $206.40 shipped for 2000 bullets. So you could load the 38 special for around $0.15-0.16 a round using their bullets. And the quality of their bullets seems to me to be as good as the big boys. And they happen to be in stock at Roze Distribution lately. That is their retail outlet.

As to the time thing, well I do not figure that in on my load cost. If I weren't reloading, I would probably be wasting time watching the stupid tube or farting around on the internet instead, so the time thing is immaterial. Plus, it is an enjoyable pass time for me to reload. And for pistol ammo, my time spent loading rounds isn't nearly as expensive in time as you evidently, since I load them on my old Dillon RL-450 and can crank out 300-400 rounds/hr after setting up my powder charge and bullet seating depth. That doesn't take me 15 minutes nowadays.

 

[4barrel]

What ever it takes not to come in last I lost cost a long time ago.

 

[rwsmith]

If you load......

If you load rifle bullets and magnum pistol bullets, you are WAY ahead of the game. Especially when circumstance can make those either expensive, scarce or non existent.

We've said on some threads already about the other benefits of reloading, such as tailoring your loads to exactly what you want. Where am I going to buy reduced load 30-06s???

Besides, I LIKE making my own stuff. It's very satisfying.

Simply put. If I didn't reload, I would still shoot. About one box of ammo a month.

 

[chief38]

Some caliber are now relatively cheap such as 9mm and .45 acp but when you get into .45 Colt, .380 and certain rifle calibers like .38-55 and .45-70 they become quite expensive.

It's also not easy to find certain calibers on the shelves of stores. Rarely do stores (especially the larger ones) carry .45 Colt or 38-55 and if they do they usually only have one offering at that!

 

[fredj338]

Nice write up Chief. Only thing I would question is the "free" 45 Colt brass or 357 for that matter. I never see those laying around. But that said once you have some you are good to go.

Free if you keep your brass from factory. Even if you buy it. Amortized over 20x reloaded, its less than a penny each.

 

[reddog81]

You should be able to get up and reloading with a nice progressive setup for close to $750. In years of visiting outdoor and indoor ranges I've found less than half a dozen 45 Colt cases and maybe a box or 2 of 38 special brass. However you can buy brass for relatively cheap. I just bought 200 pieces of Hornady brass for $50.

If you really want to start "saving" money you need to cast your own bullets. With my own cast bullets I can reload a reduced power .30-06 load for under $.10 vs. 1.00+ for a factory round.

Of course everyone knows you don't save a penny, but just end up shooting more. Also tailoring loads for specific purposes is a nice benefit.

 

[RobertJ.]

Even considering that the equipment is fully amortized, there is still the value of your time.

Unless you enjoy it, in which case it's a hobby!

Do you spend time in front of the TV? How much is that worth?

 

[JimBianchi]

I've been reloading for about 3 years and have more than paid for my investment in equipment.

That being said, I can make 160grn 38SP bunny-fart loads that are incredibly accurate all day long, and then I shoot more than ever before. This type of round is nearly impossible to buy commercially in 38SP.

So I did pay for the equipment, I do shoot a lot more, and I'm a better shooter for it.

 

[nachogrande]

HARD TO PUT A PRICE ON.

The pride of making your own for YOUR specific firearm & the peace of mind knowing you won't run out or go thru the hassle of running from store to store to be gouged & a limit imposed, NO THANKS. Now if I could just load rimfires I'd be set. Just today I told a clerk "you keep them", 15$ for 100 CCI short CB caps, the squirrels in my garden were happy.

 

[CH4]

I simply like reloading because it gives me a sense of accomplishment and it's an activity I enjoy - I load one shell at a time with my Rockchucker and 505 scale. Don't know if it's cheaper because I've never done the math. Don't care...

 

[Troystat]

Hey Chief38 the person in charge of my local range tells me the reason they have the posted rule about only taking your own brass is because in CA it is considered hazardous waste, he also said they sell some of it to commercial reloaders but they can't just sell it as scrap but can sell it as scrap that is hazardous waste. Don't know if this is bs but they are the only local outdoor range and if selling the used brass keeps them open that is ok with me.

 

[Duckford]

With all this talk of $90 a box with labor factored in, I took some time to crunch a few of my own numbers....

38 Special Target Load:
Material costs
Case: free
Bullet: ? cents, home made lube, electric and propane for lead for lead recycling at home, free to minimal
Powder: 2.8 grains Bullseye, .9 cents per round
Primer: 3 cents per round
Material : 3.9-? cents per round

Total labor estimate:
4 Hours work for 80 pounds of clean ingots from scrap collected from my rubber traps and remelted, $1 per 5600 grains or $1.25 a pound at $25 an hour

5600 grains / 170 grain Keith = 33 bullets per dollar, basically 3 cents per bullet

3.5 hours of casting, including setup, warm up, clean up, sorting average 1,300 bullets or 372 high grade bullets per hour, 6.7 cents per bullet at $25 an hour

One hour to size and lubricate 600 bullets, 4.1 cents per bullet

150 rounds loaded per hour in careful fashion, 16.6 cents per total loaded round

Total theoretical labor cost per total loaded round 30.4 cents
Total material plus theoretical labor 34.3 cents per round
50 round box at material cost is around $2
50 round box at material cost plus theoretical labor $17.15

If I was still on the old single stage that i still love, that would drive up the theoretical labor cost higher, and whatever wage you want to calculate will change it too, but even with $50 an hour and a 50 rounds per hour on a single stage would still be hard to come out at over $50 a box. Keep in mind some young shooters make closer to 12.50 an hour in their real jobs, and some progressive reloaders will easily outpace my careful pace. Many people take more time and make far more per hour than I, but I think a general idea of what labor included can be, at least, ballparked.

As with subjectivity, I'm sure if you are a heat surgeon and you moonlight at a gas station, your story about how much you make as a doctor will lead to the gas station awarding you a wage based on your skilled labor salary and not on the wage that is at the level of the job and what the employer can afford to pay. This line of logic can distort our perception of value and trying to put monetary value to our productive time we use to be productive to ourselves, when in truth all the numbers are kinda just made up.

As for me, I try to mandate myself to firing at least 2,600 rounds out o my M27 every year, so $104 of actual monetary cost to me is a fine, and very real, number, and I'll stick with that.

 

[hammer 1]

I think you mean Nickel plated.

sorry, thank you, yes, nickel brass, brain fart

 

[smokindog]

Nice piece!

Only thing I'll add is piece of mind. Supply is always one election away from disruption. I don't shoot near as much as most of you and I don't do competitions, I just enjoy plinking.

The last dry spell got me into reloading (Sandy Hook) and I've probably got enough supplies to last me the remainder of my shooting days (61 in a couple weeks). Yes, that means I bought some primers at 4+ cents but the powder I bought will never be cheaper and everything is stored properly.

I also bought a significant amount of factory ammo to use with new firearms, feed the brass supply, and keep on the shelf. If I'm out and about and see a good deal, I still will buy some.

I spent more than the $1500 mentioned for equipment BUT the $1500 budget is a great number IMO.

The point is I now HAVE IT and no election will change that. Also, since we're newly retired, it's a cost I don't have to worry about in the budget. Health care is already costing me a new firearm per month (come on 65)!

I enjoy going up to my reloading room and disappearing from the world for a few hours! THAT alone is worth the entry fee.

This is not the first time I have discussed this subject but since it does seem to come up from time to time I figured I'd post this again. The costs below are from what I have personally purchased in the recent past.

Let's say one is going to buy a Reloading Outfit to load .38 Special, .45 acp and .45 Colt. I am NOT including the cost of the Brass because IMHO there is no reason to buy it! Almost any Range is laden with once fired Brass in these popular calibers and it is there for the taking. My Club Ranges are so heavily littered with perfectly serviceable Brass I always tell new guys getting into reloading NOT to buy the cases. I would have a hard time believing your local Ranges are any different. I have given out thousands and thousands of Brass to new Re-loaders just to get them started. OK - so let's say the Brass is free.

Bullet heads for target shooting that I use are lead. I pay 0.089 cents for a 230 grain .45 acp bullet, 0.065 cents for a 158 grain RNL bullet and 0.100 cents for a .45 Colt 255 RNFP bullet all from Dardas Cast Bullets which I think are very good quality.

I use Titegroup for .38 Spl and .357 Mag, W231 for .45 acp and Unique for .45 Colt. Since all of those powders all cost about $20 / lb (I buy 8 pound cans).

Primers are selling for about $28 - $30 bucks per 1000 so that comes to about 0.030 each.

OK - now the math......

.38 special

cartridge Case.......... FREE
Bullet ..................... 6.5 cents
Powder.................... 1.0 cent
Primer..................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL..................... 10.5 cents / rnd x 50 = $5.50 /box of 50


.45 acp

Cartridge Case........... FREE
Bullet........................ 9 cents
Powder...................... 1.3 cents
Primer....................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL....................... 13.3 cents / rnd x 50 = $6.65/box of 50


.45 Colt

Cartridge Case .......... FREE
Bullet....................... 10 cents
Powder..................... 2.3 cents
Primer...................... 3 cents

TOTAL....................... 15.3 cents each x 50 = $7.65/box of 50

There are 7000 grains of powder in a pound so you can divide how many grains of powder you are using into 7000 and come up with cost per round based on your price per pound.

A GOOD reloading outfit can certainly be purchased for $1500.00 or so. If you save $15 per box over name brand Factory ammo (average of course - some more some less) and you take the $1500 equipment cost and divide it by the savings per box ( 1500 / 15 = 100 boxes of ammo) you will break even and pay for all your equipment after 100 boxes or 5,000 rounds.

While I don't know how long it would take you guys to shoot 5,000 rounds I know I go through that in about 6 months. So that is my perspective on just how fast reloading equipment and components will pay for themselves. Slightly longer if you buy super premium equipment and slightly less if you buy budget stuff. I suppose it also depends on what bullets you shoot but for Target shooting I have no problem using lead cast bullets.

OTHER THAN DOLLARS AND CENTS NOW:

Many guys like myself are serious target shooters and like shooting very accurate and slightly lighter recoiling bullets. I load my target ammo to respectable velocities but not up to defensive ammo velocities. So you can custom tune your own loads to your personal needs.

Many guys find reloading relaxing and enjoyable (I am not really one of them and usually load in bulk - then cover the press again). That's a personal opinion of course.

Once components are procured you never loose the ability to roll your own no matter what the political climate is. Since components last virtually forever if stored properly, you can but in bulk when one of the larger suppliers runs a sale and offers free shipping and NO Haz-Mat fees.

So there is my take on re-loading for those of you who are thinking about taking the plunge!

Regards,
Chief38

 

[Thomas15]

When the subject comes up where an individual asks the question re: "how much money does it cost to buy reloading stuff?" I always answer that on a basic level a minimum of $500.00 is needed. Less is possible and more is certainly easy to accomplish. But when it's all said and done when the handloader who produces more than 50 rounds per year looks at what he has sitting on his bench (including the actual bench), $1500.00 is probably a better, more accurate number.

I don't know why it is that we (established handloaders) try so hard to justify our hobby to those interested in taking it up, or why we low ball the reality of the true cost of joining the ranks of handloaderdom. Since this is a handgun forum it can be assumed that the potential new handloader will need or want to crank out 100s if not 1000s of rounds per month and unless you have unlimited time and enjoy sitting/standing at a bench for umteen hours per week, then the only other option is to place a progressive press on your bench.

This is going to cost some bux and I think a newb is better served knowing this up front before they hit the buy button for a single stage turret press that they will grow out of in a few months. This is not intended to be an insult to those who have ample amounts of pistol ammo produced on a turret press. But most of us who have a spouse and kids and a full time job and a mortgage do not have the time and energy required to go that route. It is an option for cost considerations but not in my opinion the best option.

As far as per round costs go even in 9mm where factory is relatively inexpensive it is easy to handload ammo for almost half the cost of factory even if you are not casting your own bullets. If someone shoots 1000 rounds of 9mm per month, it will take only 12.5 months for him to break even on a $1500.00 bench investment. And he will have better ammo for all his trouble. And that's 9mm. 38 or 45ACP will enjoy a faster return on investment.

So personally I think that instead of encouraging potential handloaders into buying this or that kit for a couple hundred dollars I think we do the community a better service by pointing out the reality of the thing, handloading, like just about anything related to firearms, is not inexpensive.

If your struggling to put food on the table and paying the electric bill then high volume recreational shooting is probably not in your best interests and you might be better served plinking 100 rounds worth per year on what ever firearm you currently have. I know that for years, literally, I put off handloading and shooting more than once or twice a year because our financial priorities were elsewhere.

Now that the kids are adults we have the time and money but still I couldn't shoot the volume I do now using factory ammo. The negative in my particular case is that my kids are used to Dad providing unlimited ammo and I cannot get my son interested in ammo self-sufficiency.

This is a very good thread with lots of good insights.

 

[292]

Great write up. Great thread. I reload with a Lee breech lock press. I also cast using wheel weights, free from the auto shop I do business with. The cost savings gets recycled into more guns and more shooting. As for the labor cost I'd ALMOST rather pay more to get to do something myself. The fun for me is working up accurate loads using different combinations of components.