The dreaded frame crack

[1950jcb]

J Comment

I've always been a "steel is real" kind of guy when it comes to the small frame. I'll put up with the extra weight to avoid these issues. I've been packing a 60 since the 70s, and have considered an airweight from time to time, but couldn't get by the alloy part. Old fashioned (and old) I guess.
Jim

 

[ladder13]

Thanks for the reassurances. I really want a no lock 642 to CC with.

I would say go ahead and buy one, it wouldn't stop me from buying another if I feel the need. Remember it's something mechanical, subject to failure like anything mechanical.
I own 5 Airweights, I like each one.

 

[Tinygnat219]

If you send your revolver/pistol in for warranty work you can receive it back directly because the firearm is yours. It does not have to go through an FFL to be returned to you. The only stipulation is it must be received by someone over 21 years old.

This is correct. Good advice! Especially if S&W actually provides a Fedex tag.

 

[ladder13]

Spoke to a S&W customer rep/gunsmith about 5 minutes ago, a new gun(if warranted) will be sent back via an FFL, since a new serial number needs to be issued. He asked me what State I resided in before mentioning the shipping angle. I didn't ask, but the shipping policy appears to be a State by State basis.
Also the service rep mentioned the fact that a no lock gun couldn't be guaranteed, they ship what's available. Nothing I can do about that except sell the gun, if it comes with the lock, and buy what I want.

 

[ladder13]

Update: Received a shipping label and getting ready to pack the 642 and call Fedex. So far so good, the label was sent pretty quickly.

ALSO: The gunsmith who I spoke to, with about 30 years experience debunked the torqued barrel theory. He said a torqued barrel would show a crack right away, not after 10 years. He said the problem is caused by a barrel that could be .00001(just a figure, you get the point)) of an inch bigger than spec, and too large for the aluminum frame. When the barrel is installed it stretches the aluminum a bit.

 

[photoman]

ALSO: The gunsmith who I spoke to, with about 30 years experience debunked the torqued barrel theory. He said a torqued barrel would show a crack right away, not after 10 years. He said the problem is caused by a barrel that could be .00001(just a figure, you get the point)) of an inch bigger than spec, and too large for the aluminum frame. When the barrel is installed it stretches the aluminum a bit.

Sooooo....

Being that we get different stories from different gunsmiths at S&W, we should conclude that S&W doesn't really know what causes the cracks.

 

[Stainz]

Ladder,

You guys made me look at my 642-2, respendent with it's still unused, intentionally or not, IL, now 2,000+ rounds and >5yr from new. A bit pocket carry worn - it is my 24/7 EDC - I carefully emptied it of it's +P 158gr LHPSWCs... and looked. Shocked - awed ("Awwwe... heck!") - I noticed a white line... under the barrel attachment... I touched it... it moved! I asked Elmer, my know-it-all flame point Siameese cat...

He identified it as his hair. Heart failure averted. My 642 is still fine. That is one weird cat.

Stainz

 

[TNFrank]

It could even be caused by shooting the gun too fast and heating it up. Since steel and aluminum have different expansion rates the barrel may "grow" faster then then aluminum and cause stress which would cause the crack. Bottom line, when you practice shooting take your time and don't heat up the barrel as much.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

It could even be caused by shooting the gun too fast and heating it up. Since steel and aluminum have different expansion rates the barrel may "grow" faster then then aluminum and cause stress which would cause the crack. Bottom line, when you practice shooting take your time and don't heat up the barrel as much.

That sounds reasonable; however, I wouldn't own any gun that I had to be concerned with the barrel heating up. Guess that's why I'll never own anything but steel.

 

[ladder13]

With a lifetime repair/replace policy, I'll continue to own/buy Airweight guns, can't beat em' for carry.

 

[BigBoku]

Update: Received a shipping label and getting ready to pack the 642 and call Fedex. So far so good, the label was sent pretty quickly.

ALSO: The gunsmith who I spoke to, with about 30 years experience debunked the torqued barrel theory. He said a torqued barrel would show a crack right away, not after 10 years. He said the problem is caused by a barrel that could be .00001(just a figure, you get the point)) of an inch bigger than spec, and too large for the aluminum frame. When the barrel is installed it stretches the aluminum a bit.

Glad you have your shipping label and are in the process of getting your replacement.

In regards to the over torqued barrel its not something to be debugged, I have seen airweights and airlites come from the factory with cracks as severe as yours which is immediatley visible upon inspection, however, I have also seen airweights and airlites with partial fracturing that eventually will totally fracture that is not something one would notice unless specifically looked for. Although unlikely a oversized barrel could also be the culprit as the airweight barrels are steel and being threaded into an aluminum alloy frame, however the Airlite Aluminium-Scandium alloy frame exhibited the same exact frame fracture and utilizes a different barrel to frame assembly process. The "airlites" have a stainless steel barrel liner that threads into the Aluminum alloy barrel shroud as opposed to the frame and when "over torqued" cause the same fracture at the same location.

In my position I have seen more than my share of J frames and I work closely with S&W Factory Reps on a constant basis. My personal experience and the feedback directly recieved from the S&W factory is as described above.

As I stated this has been a issue S&W has known about since the no dash Airweights and Airlites where produced.

I would not hesitate to buy a Airweight or Airlite again, I had a prelock no dash 342PD with well over 1500 rounds of 135 Grain +P ammunition and no problems at all. These guns are designed for comfortable light weight carry and will last many many many years for the average person that practices regularly and as Ladder13 said are backed with a lifetime warranty.

 

[TNFrank]

Not to get too far off track here BUT it's funny that Ladder13 will still trust his Alloy J-Frame even after it getting a frame crack but won't trust his Sig P226 even though it's even more rare for a Sig semi-auto to mess up like his did.

 

[allglock]

That sounds reasonable; however, I wouldn't own any gun that I had to be concerned with the barrel heating up. Guess that's why I'll never own anything but steel.

Then dont ever buy a Seecamp 380.. Larry says not to shoot more than 4 magazines full , without letting it cool.
Its all steel....

 

[ladder13]

Not to get too far off track here BUT it's funny that Ladder13 will still trust his Alloy J-Frame even after it getting a frame crack but won't trust his Sig P226 even though it's even more rare for a Sig semi-auto to mess up like his did.

Well let's see, the rails fell off my Sig, rendering the gun useless. My J frame would likely keep firing alot more than I needed for the situation involved in.
Does that satisfy you incessant bashing of S&W products and cheerleading for Sig products??
I have 1 Sig, it failed, my failure rate is 100%.

 

[ladder13]

Glad you have your shipping label and are in the process of getting your replacement.

In regards to the over torqued barrel its not something to be debugged, I have seen airweights and airlites come from the factory with cracks as severe as yours which is immediatley visible upon inspection, however, I have also seen airweights and airlites with partial fracturing that eventually will totally fracture that is not something one would notice unless specifically looked for. Although unlikely a oversized barrel could also be the culprit as the airweight barrels are steel and being threaded into an aluminum alloy frame, however the Airlite Aluminium-Scandium alloy frame exhibited the same exact frame fracture and utilizes a different barrel to frame assembly process. The "airlites" have a stainless steel barrel liner that threads into the Aluminum alloy barrel shroud as opposed to the frame and when "over torqued" cause the same fracture at the same location.

In my position I have seen more than my share of J frames and I work closely with S&W Factory Reps on a constant basis. My personal experience and the feedback directly recieved from the S&W factory is as described above.

As I stated this has been a issue S&W has known about since the no dash Airweights and Airlites where produced.

I would not hesitate to buy a Airweight or Airlite again, I had a prelock no dash 342PD with well over 1500 rounds of 135 Grain +P ammunition and no problems at all. These guns are designed for comfortable light weight carry and will last many many many years for the average person that practices regularly and as Ladder13 said are backed with a lifetime warranty.

Thanks for the explanation BigBoku. I'm awaiting the Fedex truck as I type. Also was advised by the smith at the factory that the gun needed to be shipped to an FFL since a new serial number would be issued. Looks like a trip to Richie's is on the horizon.

 

[TNFrank]

Well let's see, the rails fell off my Sig, rendering the gun useless. My J frame would likely keep firing alot more than I needed for the situation involved in.
Does that satisfy you incessant bashing of S&W products and cheerleading for Sig products??
I have 1 Sig, it failed, my failure rate is 100%.

That's something I don't understand. The Frame Rails are machined as part of the frame, how did they "fall off"? I could see if it was a poly frame gun like a Glock where the frame rails are added to the frame but I just can't see how this could happen unless the slide/frame wasn't properly lubed.
Also, the U.S. Navy has been using the Sig P226 for years and years and never had any problems with them. Countless other LEA's have used Sig products and never had any problems with them.
Some folks could break a crowbar in a sandbox, doesn't mean the crowbar is bad, it's just the luck that some folks have.

Also, I'm not "bashing" S&W products at all, I've owned a couple dozen of their revolvers and all of em' have been nice guns. Heck, I've got one on my hip as I type this and I've got a line on another one(M64, 2") that I'd like to pick up so stop with saying that I like to "bash" S&W, that's hogwash.

I just think it's odd that you'll give one gun another chance but totally dismiss another that has a proven track record as a great firearm.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

This conversation is interesting and a good place for a couple of questions. Given weight is an issue for cc, how much heavier would an Airlite be if made out of SS? Would being made of SS eliminate the problem of cracking? I've shot a 642 alongside my 36 and I have to say those few ounces (in the 36) make for a more comfortable recoil, esp. with +P ammo.

 

[photoman]

Major thread drift...

 

[GaryS]

This conversation is interesting and a good place for a couple of questions. Given weight is an issue for cc, how much heavier would an Airlite be if made out of SS? Would being made of SS eliminate the problem of cracking? I've shot a 642 alongside my 36 and I have to say those few ounces (in the 36) make for a more comfortable recoil, esp. with +P ammo.

By definition, it wouldn't be an Airweight. Made of stainless or carbon steel is would be a Model 640 or a Model 40. We're not talking about a ton of weight here in either case.

 

[oldafsp]

I have just over 500 rounds of 158 +P through my 638 which I purchased new in October 2011.

10 shot rapid fire strings for defensive practice is how I shoot it. So far nothing wrong. And I mean nothing.

If it developes a crack, and I don't catch it while cleaning it I guess the first assailant I shoot with it is in for a BIG surprise.

Not only will he have a .38 slug in his chest, but a fractured skull from that 1 7/8 chunk of barrel that conks him in the noggin.....