The M5906 Project

[BMCM]

Evening Gents,

Getting sort of caught up on some other work so I was able to squeeze in a bit of work on this project today.

Finished up the 'jackhammering' and adjusted the contour on trigger guard front...

Adjusted the contour a bit here at the trigger guard root, I may modify this some more, we'll see...

Between a mounted stone and a 2cut pillar file, fixed this area where the steel was proud of the wood...

Then smoothed out the lumps in the contour with a 2cut crossing needle file...

And, identified another issue that will need fixing.

Here with the left grip panel in place you can see it fits nice and flush to the side of the frame...

Likewise if when the right panel is held in position it's perfectly flush against the steel...

However, when both panels are in place there is a gap than can be shifted side to side as the grips are moved left 'n' right side to side. The gap shown here at the top of the right panel measures about twenty thousandths...

So, what I'll need to do is carefully shave about ten thousandths off of each panel along the meeting surface at the backstrap indicated here...

I'll set up a small surface plate with, I think some 400 grit abrasive paper and thin each panel a little bit at a time while test fitting on the frame frequently. Gotta go slow and check often since any wood I take off cannot be put back. I certainly don't want to wind up with an open gap down the back

And after all the tinkering, ran the frame through the blast cabinet again...

And the other side...

Seems to be shaping up more 'r less ok so far.

That's all for now. Next up we get the grip panels correctly fitted. Then using the panels and a transfer punch, mark the frame for a drill & tap session on the milling machine.

Cheers
Bill

 

[Ruger Nut]

Bill, you're a 3rd Gen God! Man, you do some of the finest armorer work that I have ever seen. I can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[Craig19]

That looks great. I can't wait to see it finished.

 

[toddstang]

I think I have been looking forward to updates on this thread more than I have Christmas or my birthday!

 

[Hersh328]

I really wasn't on board with the jackhammering, but seeing it all done it looks really nice!

 

[veeklog1]

Bill, Any new updates on this fine looking 5906

 

[BMCM]

Working on getting the fixturing setup to hold the wood panels in various positions for some machining operations. I've ordered some MIC6 precision cast tooling plate along with some other stuff to tackle the mods on the grip panels. Update will follow soon as my supplies/materials are delivered.

It's just a fact that my personal fun projects take a back seat when I have other folks guns here for work so progress updates can sometimes be delayed a bit

Cheers
Bill

 

[Ruger Nut]

Bill, as soon as I get another 3rd Gen gun I will be making the 2 hour ride to your home to have it "BMCM" approved.

 

[vigil617]

Bill, when you get a chance, I'd love to hear more about the molten salt bath that's ahead. Is this something you've invested in at your shop, or will you be sending this out to a vendor? Seeing your note that the process is what produces the Melonite (trade name) finish, I'm intrigued that this is something that could be done "at home" with the right setup. Not that I plan to try it myself, of course!

Just thought it might be good for a post or two while we await with you the arrival of your tooling for the grips project. By the way, I've never heard of the individual pieces referred to as "scales." Is this "inside baseball" among you gunsmiths, or is there a nautical heritage to that term?

 

[prochi2k]

Thanks... And the dunk yields a extraordinarily tough satin black case hardened finish. Ferritic nitrocarburizing aka, Nitron, Isonite, Tenifer, Melonite and several other trade names I don't recall at the moment.

Cheers
Bill

Cost wise, how much do they usually run? I'm leaning toward going this way with my project. I'm also wondering if the barrel bushing can be removed before the said dunk.
Thanks,
Les

 

[JohnHL]

Bill, when you get a chance, I'd love to hear more about the molten salt bath that's ahead. Is this something you've invested in at your shop, or will you be sending this out to a vendor? Seeing your note that the process is what produces the Melonite (trade name) finish, I'm intrigued that this is something that could be done "at home" with the right setup. Not that I plan to try it myself, of course!

Just thought it might be good for a post or two while we await with you the arrival of your tooling for the grips project. By the way, I've never heard of the individual pieces referred to as "scales." Is this "inside baseball" among you gunsmiths, or is there a nautical heritage to that term?

The only place where I have heard the term "scales" used as a reference to grips is the two-piece, removable handles on folding knives.

The only "nautical heritage" to which I am aware (and I am a "land lubber") are those things that are scraped off before frying the fish!

John

 

[BMCM]

Bill, when you get a chance, I'd love to hear more about the molten salt bath that's ahead. Is this something you've invested in at your shop, or will you be sending this out to a vendor? Seeing your note that the process is what produces the Melonite (trade name) finish, I'm intrigued that this is something that could be done "at home" with the right setup. Not that I plan to try it myself, of course!

Molten salt bath... Not table salt by any stretch. Cyanide salts and some other elements. This is not something I'd be messing with unless my intent was to turn my homestead into a Superfund site. I'll do all the metal work and preparation then ship the parts off to H&M for dunking. That's as far into the process as I get. The chemicals involved as well as the process are quite hazardous. I imagine that's why you don't see a lot of providers. Ferritic nitrocarburizing - Wikipedia

Just thought it might be good for a post or two while we await with you the arrival of your tooling for the grips project. By the way, I've never heard of the individual pieces referred to as "scales." Is this "inside baseball" among you gunsmiths, or is there a nautical heritage to that term?

Scales... I've heard and used that term for years referring to slim flat grip panels on knives tools and firearms. Typical usage refers to pieces of raw material before fashioning into usable parts. such as seen here...
Knife Scales | Rockler Woodworking & Hardware

But in many cases used in referring to grip panels that are slim & flat such as those found guns like a Baby Browning, 1911, or 645 like this here...
Ascend™ 1911 Grips - G10 Machined Pistol Grips | Rail Scales

Cheers
Bill

 

[BMCM]

Cost wise, how much do they usually run? I'm leaning toward going this way with my project. I'm also wondering if the barrel bushing can be removed before the said dunk.
Thanks,
Les

It's been a few years since I had some parts processed. Back then it was $100 for a slide that was already prepped. I left the bushing in place so that got nitrided as well. You really cannot remove that pressed in barrel bushing without destroying it. These folks did the work... H&M Blacknitride+™ | The New Standard in Steel Hardening

Slides prepped prior to shipping looked like this...

And upon return like this...

Cheers
Bill

 

[Browncoat]

Great work

 

[hemiram]

I really wish I had the talent to do stuff like BMCM does.

I have to say, I have some guns that came in nasty, but nothing as bad as this gun was to start with. Wow. I would have been pretty upset if I got a gun that bad. Worst I have ever received was a Dan Wesson 15-2 that had an amazing load of unburned powder in it, to the point it was difficult to cock it. Looks pretty good these days..but it took a lot of work, just to get the blue shined up again.

The other gun was an Israeli surplus Tanfoglio CZ clone that had some sort of sticky goo all through the insides of it and a mag full of dead baby spiders. It looked great outside, and once cleaned up, it's my favorite of all the guns I own:

 

[prochi2k]

It's been a few years since I had some parts processed. Back then it was $100 for a slide that was already prepped. I left the bushing in place so that got nitrided as well. You really cannot remove that pressed in barrel bushing without destroying it. These folks did the work... H&M Blacknitride+™ | The New Standard in Steel Hardening


Cheers
Bill

Thanks for the info Bill!
I've decided instead of having the slide Melonite processed to just purchase a M6904 slide and go from there.

 

[BMCM]

Evening Gents,

All my supplies were delivered so it's about time to get a bit of woodworking sorted out.

This here is the area that requires a clearance cut for the right side decocker body lever...

In order to make that clearance cut we need some means to hold the scale securely. Can't just clamp it in a vise without breaking or crushing it and that raised boss on the inner surface is in the way if we want to bolt it down to something...

So, what we're going to do is machine a simple fixture to fasten the grip to which will enable holding the part in the mill vise. What we have here is a 6" piece of 1/2" x 1" precision cast tooling plate I cut from stock. This will become our fixture...

First we need to break out my trusty vernier protractor...

And use that to capture the angle of that boss on the inside surface of the grip...

Ok 74° then...

Splash some layout dye on out fixture and transfer the angle with a scribe...

In order to mark the other end we need to measure the length of that boss first...

There's the area the needs to be milled out so the grip will fit flat & snug to the fixture...

Over on the mill, swing the vise over to 74° and make some chips...

Now we need to set up for drilling & tapping. First scribe a line down the middle of the fixture where we're going to drill...

Then align by eye, both holes centered over the scribed line...

Then mark our spots with a 4mm transfer punch...

And there we go, drilled & tapped for M4 .7pitch ...

Perfect fit and holding securely...

Now to determine what milling cutter to use I need to take the left panel and measure the existing cut with a radius gauge. 3/8" radius means I need to use a 3/4" cutter...

Over on the mill, so far so good but I was lucky. I neglected to lock down the vise after adjusting the angle and it turned a bit. That could have been disastrous if the vise spun into the cutter but fortunately it only turned about 1 degree...

Adjusted the vise angle and locked it down this time
Finished the cut to depth...

Perfect mirror image...

Mocked up on the gun and it's perfect...

That's all for now...

More woodworking coming soon. Still have quite a bit more work to do fitting the wood.

Stay well & stay safe out there.

Cheers
Bill

 

[guzzitaco]

AMAZING !!!

 

[Erocksmash]

Absolutely fantastic, I may need to look for a set of those woods for the DPA...

 

[Shooter Mike]

This has to be the best post that I have ever read on any gun forum, ever.

The pictures, the procedure , and the information.

Great post.

 

[Old_Cop]

Pay attention, this is how a professional works.

 

[vigil617]

This has to be the best post that I have ever read on any gun forum, ever.

The pictures, the procedure , and the information.

Great post.

Mike, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

Look up some of BMCM's other threads about different repair and customizing projects and you will find similarly amazing, detailed, and well-written descriptions -- all with Bill's flair for humor -- that will capture your attention for hours. This man is the real deal.

Bill, one observation on this part of the M5906 project: who'd a thought that the grip screws would be metric?

Is it your experience in other S&W projects that metric, as opposed to National Coarse ("standard") or National Fine ("SAE"), threads are often used? As an American manufacturer with plants here in the States, S&W puzzles me by this choice. I know gunsmiths must use a lot of very small, fine threads, so maybe there are comparable American thread systems besides the ones I've mentioned, but as for metric, I'm surprised, that's all.

 

[BMCM]

Bill, one observation on this part of the M5906 project: who'd a thought that the grip screws would be metric?

Is it your experience in other S&W projects that metric, as opposed to National Coarse ("standard") or National Fine ("SAE"), threads are often used? As an American manufacturer with plants here in the States, S&W puzzles me by this choice. I know gunsmiths must use a lot of very small, fine threads, so maybe there are comparable American thread systems besides the ones I've mentioned, but as for metric, I'm surprised, that's all.

Well, these grips are crafted in Germany by the Karl Nill, Nills-Griffe Company. I gather Metric is a thing over there on that side of the pond. Were you to check any of the top shelf PC guns that were originally equipped with Nills wood grips, I'd wager every one of them are fastened with the very same M4 screws that Nills supplied to S&W with the grips.

I don't really have issues with Metric per se. What really gives me heartburn is when I'm working on some machinery or vehicle and I find a mishmash of fastener standards. I've come across this a number of times on vehicles ans it's really REALLY annoying. Imagine, for example, all the fasteners on the accessory belt driven junk is Imperial and where all the brackets are fastened to the engine and all the engine bolts are Metric. So I need two complete sets of tools to repair the cursed thing Makes me want to go visit the company CEO that made that piece of junk and punch him right square in the face

Cheers
Bill

 

[vigil617]

Well, these grips are crafted in Germany by the Karl Nill, Nills-Griffe Company. I gather Metric is a thing over there on that side of the pond. Were you to check any of the top shelf PC guns that were originally equipped with Nills wood grips, I'd wager every one of them are fastened with the very same M4 screws that Nills supplied to S&W with the grips.

I don't really have issues with Metric per se. What really gives me heartburn is when I'm working on some machinery or vehicle and I find a mishmash of fastener standards. I've come across this a number of times on vehicles ans it's really REALLY annoying. Imagine, for example, all the fasteners on the accessory belt driven junk is Imperial and where all the brackets are fastened to the engine and all the engine bolts are Metric. So I need two complete sets of tools to repair the cursed thing Makes me want to go visit the company CEO that made that piece of junk and punch him right square in the face

Cheers
Bill

<smh> Of course. The screws that came with the Nills grips are metric, and those screws are what you used to secure the grips on your fixture. Perfectly sensible.

Now, though, for the ultimate attachment of the grips to the frame, aren't you faced with the choice of either using the Nills screws and having to re-tap the 5906 frame (filling the old holes with weld first), or using the old 5906 grip screws with the new grips to avoid the re-tapping? Do the holes even match up to begin with?

 

[BMCM]

Ahh but you are assuming the 5906 has holes drilled to begin with. Plain Jane no frills 5906 is not drilled & tapped so I'm more 'r less at liberty to use anything that strikes my fancy. The limiting factors are 1) the diameter & depth of the counterbore housing the screw head in the wood and 2) the combines thickness of material the screw must fit through and 3) the thickness of the steel on the sides of the magwell through which we drill & tap and the shank of the screw must hold fast.

In this case the head of the supplied M4 screws and the counterbore in the grip is precisely 8mm in diameter. The screw heads are also relatively thin being a tad over 2mm thick and the threaded shank is only 4mm long. I have ID'd a 316L stainess screw that's close but with a 6mm long shank that I'd need to trim.

I have not been able to find any Imperial screws that have a 8mm diameter head that will precisely fit the wood. Then again I haven't really looked that hard for SAE screws. What I'd really like to find is a set of screw in titanium either slotted or torx that I can flame anodize

As it stands currently I'm not seeing any reason to reinvent the wheel, I'll roll with the screws supplied. Plus i already have to tooling to drill and tap the frame for M4 x 0.70mm

Cheers
Bill

 

[Pine_Worker]

This guy is amazing!

 

[BMCM]

Happy Independence Day Gents,

Got a little bit done on this project today sitting around the homestead doing by social distancing bit. If truth be told, I was social distancing long before there was a pandemic

Anyway, lets get to work shall we?

So, what I need to be able to do here is hold this grip panel by the area under my thumb pretty rigidly in order to perform a couple machine ops on the opposite end...

We're going to use another piece of that half by one inch tooling plate about 6 inches long to make another fixture to hold these grips. First order of business, we need to take a few measurements...

We'll need to know the height of that raised boss in the middle and the radius of those curved edges on that boss...

And, we need the width of that groove between the spine and the boss here...

5/16" radius gauge tells me a 5/8" diameter cutter will match that curve. I don't have one but as long as I go a touch smaller we'll be fine. I'll use a 1/2" cutter.

That gap measure a bit over 3/16"

We already know the angle on the boss is 74° from the previous installment so my vernier protractor is so set and I have the caliper locked down at 0.195"...

Splash some layout dye on our piece of tooling plate and using those tools, scribe the area the needs milling out onto the stock...

Now over on the mill, we have our marked stock propped up on a couple parallels in the vise and aligned parallel to the Y axis. Cutting 0.080" deep with a 1/2" 3 flute carbide end mill turning at around 900RPM...

Then we swing the vise over to 74° and lock it down to for the cleanup cut on the angle...

So far so good...

Clean it up and back to the bench to check the fit, Good to go...

Now we flip it over and take our M4 transfer punch and mark the fixture for a drill & tap operation...

Drilled the fixture with a #30 bit then tapped metric M4-.7 pitch
Grip fits on there nice and secure with a single screw snugged up...

Now we repeat all those steps again on the opposing end and side of the fixture so I can hold the other panel in the same fashion...

With that done, we will next turn our attention to the frame...

A little layout dye...

Set the grip in place making sure it's snugged up tight at the top then mark for drilling with our M4 transfer punch...

Once we have both sides, all four holes, marked... Frame gets strapped down on the mill table for drilling & tapping. Here we're spotting the first hole with a small center drill...

Swap bits to a #30 cobalt drill and poke the hole clean through...

Starboard side done. Flipped over and re-secured to tackle the port side...

I power tapped all four holes right on the mill but neglected to capture any pics of that. Just chucked the tap and with the spindle running at about 170RPM just lowered the quill and let the machine do the work. Turned out just fine, Looks like I got the holes located where they ought to be...

Now we get ready to put that new fixture to work. First fasten securely the port side panel...

Then flip 'er over and take a pencil to outline the area below the boss where the frame window is unfilled...

Like so...

Swap panels and repeat that step with the starboard side panel...

Now with both panels marked we're gonna take that little tiny dovetail cutter and head over to the mill with our new fixture to make some adjustments...

Here's the setup. Starboard panel on the fixture, clamped in the vise, vise swung to 74° left and locked...

What we're going to do here is take that tiny dovetail cutter and make a beveled undercut on the bottom edge of that raised boss along here...

Then traverse the Y axis a bit and make a plunge cut in the center of that marked area to create a dovetail slot about 0.050" deep right about there...

There's our little undercut done...

And there's the slot...

Then we repeat those steps. With the port side fasten to the other end/side of the fixture then clamped in the vise which is now rotated to 74° right...

When we're all done we have opposing sides each with a matching small undercut and dovetail slot...

The point of all that is to provide and mechanical anchorage for some filler compound I'm going to use to enlarge the boss to fit the frame window which we're going to cast in place on the frame.

We'll be playing with that stuff in a day or two, stay tuned.

Cheers
Bill

 

[vigil617]

Bill, I gotta say, using that little dovetail cutter instead of a straight end mill is genius. Genius, I say! The joints that you will achieve with your filler compound will be so much stronger and stable that way. That's some head you got on you!

Happy Fourth of July, Master Chief!

 

[Tom Kent]

You have more talent in two seconds than I have had in 74 years. My hat is off to you!

 

[Green Frog]

Bill, I'm enjoying this series of your posts way beyond measure. You have graphically demonstrated the two classes of people who work on guns, the "Parts Changers" like myself who simply take existing parts and try to put them together in a way that will work, and the "True Gunsmiths" who make, modify and fit parts in such a way as to perfect the vision of a particular gun. Thank you for the inspiration.

Froggie