Can't force common sense on people.
The media is spreading fear
- Thread starter Puller
- Start date
I don't care if your wife is Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
There isn't separate strain or sub type for each infected person. Good luck proving that a specific person out of the tens of thousands infected with each of the different strains - is the one who gave it to you.
Unless you can prove you have had no contact with ANYBODY else who could possibly be carrying it - besides the presumed guilty person.
You might get your wife to take that case. You sure as hell aren't going to get anyone else to. Any tort lawyer worth his salt could tear your argument apart in a matter of minutes.
Can you cite a case anywhere that a lawsuit has been successfully prosecuted by an individual against another individual for passing on a common and easily passed infection like a cold that has affected over half a million people in the US? If it is as easy as you represent it to be there must be an extensive body of case law to back your claim.
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Jon651
Member
There is one thing I can be sure that the antibody test WILL show - if you have antibodies! Determining immunity (and it's duration) will be the next question after that and will probably involve drawing titers on known people with antibodies and measuring the levels over time.
(But I expect the anti-vaxxers will start pushing their conspiracy theories long before that, however.)
Successfully suing an individual is difficult. Never said it would be easy over something like the flu or a cold. Need to prove it was them specifically and they were negligent or did it with intent or exposed the victim knowing they had medical issues where it would be a serious problem. It has happened. Some of it has to do with your location. But, sue you. Hey you can be sued for almost anything. Successfully is more difficult.
But with the Corona virus it will be way different. Mainly because of how much they are learning and tracking it now by its genomes. Just like the can trace my ancestors and ID my relatives though mine they can now do the same thing with the virus. Still with an individual it might prove difficult. But, against a company things could easily be different. A number of employees and or customers get infected and they all have the same genomes then the company has a huge liability. Hotel, airline assembly plant, distribution center what ever. Somebody else might own Amazon.
Read here Genome analyses help track coronavirus' moves | Science
But with the Corona virus it will be way different. Mainly because of how much they are learning and tracking it now by its genomes. Just like the can trace my ancestors and ID my relatives though mine they can now do the same thing with the virus. Still with an individual it might prove difficult. But, against a company things could easily be different. A number of employees and or customers get infected and they all have the same genomes then the company has a huge liability. Hotel, airline assembly plant, distribution center what ever. Somebody else might own Amazon.
Read here Genome analyses help track coronavirus' moves | Science
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Yeah being able to say that your case is the same bug as the one in Bavaria is a long ways from proving who you got it from. Nice try.
All I can say is the scheming litigious mindset that you are demonstrating is a HUGE part of what is wrong with our tort system - and our country.
Oh no, I caught the same virus that a million other people caught. Who can I blame, who can I sue?
That kind of thought process makes me want to puke.
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I will bet you it happens. I have never sued anyone in my life. Why do you think one of our car manufactures is setting up so its employees has an alarm that goes off anytime they are with in 6 foot of another. Why do you think MGM closed down before a government order. Liability is why.
What might not have tripped a jury with a cold or the flu is going to be way different with this. Watch and see. Go look at some of the law sites if you think I am out to lunch. Not all of them but some. Remember in civil court its only needs to be a most likely. . Burden of proof is way lower.
And the understanding of its genomes are getting way more specific and they are learning more.
What might not have tripped a jury with a cold or the flu is going to be way different with this. Watch and see. Go look at some of the law sites if you think I am out to lunch. Not all of them but some. Remember in civil court its only needs to be a most likely. . Burden of proof is way lower.
And the understanding of its genomes are getting way more specific and they are learning more.
I understand the "preponderance of evidence" standard in a civil trial. And yeah an outbreak at a manufacturing plant could result in a lawsuit. In fact it probably will given that tort lawyers are probably already looking for just that kind of situation and salivating over the idea.
BUT, that wasn't your original argument. Your original position was that YOU could sue ME if you thought you caught the virus from me due to my negligent actions. I said never gonna happen - even a preponderance of the evidence standard is too high to be proven. You couldn't counter that so your argument morphed into workplace liability. Totally different argument.
This discussion with you is starting to bore me. Everytime one of your arguments or assertions is sufficiently answered you change the topic by coming up with another "yeah but what if " scenario. It's starting to get more than just a little bit tedious.
We've gone from the original topic - that the media is putting the most negative spin on every aspect of every story about this to keep people scared and tuning in, both to benefit their ratings and their agenda - all the way to theoretical lawsuits for workplace liability if multiple people get infected in the same business.
Back to the original topic, there can be no doubt by anyone with more than half a brain that the media is sensationalizing this and painting the darkest picture possible about every aspect of it - ala the song "Dirty Laundry". There's no denying that fact. There's also no denying that some people feed off it and swallow it hook line and sinker.
Some of us don't. We see the man behind the curtain.
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I said I could sue you for giving me a cold. I also laid out the conditions that would be necessary. No where did I say it would be easy to be successful. The proof would be difficult to establish. Yes. I also mentioned that defending yourself successfully could be expensive. Even if you hoped to recover cost you would have to pay attorney up front.
I admit that it would be difficult with something more common.. But, my original point was it will happen over the virus and I believe that now juries will be more willing to go for it. A bunch of suits have already been filed against cruise lines BTW.
Your the same as me. Hard headed and going to stand behind your convictions. Your just the other side of this particular coin.
I'll drop it agreeing that the Media does spread Fear. Both for ratings and of course profit. Have been for years. Nothing new there.
Funny that we both use articles of Media to bolster our arguments isn't it
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wheelgun28
Member
Talking with a friend the other day a question rumbling around is now that the government has the power to save us, what's next?
Everyone stay inside while we fill in your back yard pool, this will save you.
We are now requiring only healthy food in stores, the cookie and chip aisle is now empty for your own good.
Just allow the state collection forces to take your guns, knives with a point or sharp edge and any ball bats you may have.
Be it know the new executive order will now ban all two and three-wheeled vehicles for on or off-highway use.
Please submit your DNA for testing for a procreating permit. Only those of good DNA will be permitted. We will determine and select the appropriate match for you and provide the permit in triplicate. It is for the greater good!
Sure it sounds silly now, but a year ago if I said we would all be forced out of work and made to stay in our homes you'd have laughed at me...
Hahaha, this guy said we'd have to wear gloves and a mask to go to the grocery store, hahaha, some people...
Save me Mr Government save me...
Everyone stay inside while we fill in your back yard pool, this will save you.
We are now requiring only healthy food in stores, the cookie and chip aisle is now empty for your own good.
Just allow the state collection forces to take your guns, knives with a point or sharp edge and any ball bats you may have.
Be it know the new executive order will now ban all two and three-wheeled vehicles for on or off-highway use.
Please submit your DNA for testing for a procreating permit. Only those of good DNA will be permitted. We will determine and select the appropriate match for you and provide the permit in triplicate. It is for the greater good!
Sure it sounds silly now, but a year ago if I said we would all be forced out of work and made to stay in our homes you'd have laughed at me...
Hahaha, this guy said we'd have to wear gloves and a mask to go to the grocery store, hahaha, some people...
Save me Mr Government save me...
OP
Puller
Member
So, now after watching the media reports the past couple of days about the "flattening of the curve", and of hospital ships and temporary hospital units and thousands of ventilators going unused, I am now prepared to use a four letter word to describe what has been perpetrated on the American people.
The four letter word is 'hoax'. Yes, I am now convinced American's have been played by the media. Of course there's a virus going around. Yes it has been deadly to a very low percentage of people. But what the main stream media has done is use a 16 inch naval cannon to attack an insect and the collateral damage has far outweighed the initial threat.
The four letter word is 'hoax'. Yes, I am now convinced American's have been played by the media. Of course there's a virus going around. Yes it has been deadly to a very low percentage of people. But what the main stream media has done is use a 16 inch naval cannon to attack an insect and the collateral damage has far outweighed the initial threat.
22 million out of jobs, more to come, many with wives and children. No big deal, I have my pension, SS and 401K.
wheelgun28
Member
but but muh models showed we need all that.
We all know models can't be wrong...
I am building a plastic bubble in my home, haha you dirty air breathers..
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I believe it was Ronald Reagan who said that any government powerful enough to give you everything is powerful enough to take everything from you.
Models
No one yet has given an answer to my question on the "Model" of Sweden, Norway and Finland though. It is real world. No restrictions in Sweden equaled a 44 times higher death count than the 2 countries with restrictions that it is sandwiched between. Just why is that if restrictions did not work???
Anyone able give me a valid explanation???
Didn't think so
No one yet has given an answer to my question on the "Model" of Sweden, Norway and Finland though. It is real world. No restrictions in Sweden equaled a 44 times higher death count than the 2 countries with restrictions that it is sandwiched between. Just why is that if restrictions did not work???
Anyone able give me a valid explanation???
Didn't think so
OP
Puller
Member
Have you looked at the population differences of the three countries? Sweden has nearly 4 times the muslim population of Finland and about twice that of Norway. This observation is no more or less scientific than the lack of other data you're looking for.
Stay home forever, you won't die of Covid but you may starve to death.
wheelgun28
Member
Poor healthcare system? Government to busy deciding who to ration it too I guess
No one says not getting the virus isn't a good idea, no one.
The whole stay at home was to slow down the rate and allow the healthcare system to treat people. Now its become the stay home so no one gets sick plan.
I am in a hot zone, I am 30 miles from Times Square most folks around here used to work in NYC. Yes, we have had people sick and go to the hospital some even on a vent.
Now the local hospital is quiet the only people coming to the ER are a few folks with virus symptoms. All in all the ER is slow and starting to cut manpower.
Should some people be allowed to possibly catch the virus and maybe wind up in the ER?
We can't stay home forever and sooner or later we need to face the virus.
wheelgun28
Member
Another thing quietly going on around here is all the nanny state hippy inspired laws are being stopped for now. I am told you can no longer return bottles for the deposit. The stupid no plastic bag bring your own reusable germ sack has gone away. A few other things they jammed down our throats too.
And there you have it! Someone on a Internet Gun forum has figured out the mystery!
The media has conned and perpetuated a Hoax that has faked out all the Medical Doctors, Scientists, assorted experts, citizens and Governments of the entire world!
When is your book coming out or better yet maybe get with Michel Moore and produce a movie.? It was all a hoax
Never since War of the Worlds with Orson Wells has there been such a good one!
Wake County, NC where I live, has had 3 deaths with a population of 1 million. People are out and about, some not even keeping 5 feet apart, oh the horror.
So we should all stay home until when, Cuomo gives us the ok?
So we should all stay home until when, Cuomo gives us the ok?
Sorry misplace a decimal point when I figured it the first time. DUH onme. My apologies
The ratio of 4.4 times was per million vs Finland not just by country Sweden has twice the population of either and 6 times as many deaths per capita.
Right now Sweden with 10 million has had 1,511 deaths. Norway with 5 million has had 163 and Finland with another 5 million has had 90 deaths thats a total of 253 deaths per 10 million for them vs 1,511 for Sweden. So it is now 6 times the rate of the other 2 combine to give an equal population. That is a Lets throw in Denmark with another 5.7 million and restrictions and it had 346 deaths a Higher rate, but still well below Sweden
The Muslim deaths are higher among the Somalis there. That is interesting in relationship to their share of the population. But, then they believe that is from them gathering for prayers (IE not practicing social distancing). Their percentage of the population is still not high enough to chance it by that much is it?
Muslim population by %
Sweden 8%
Denmark 5%
Finland 3%
Norway 8%
I find it hard to believe that 8% of the population can cause the rate of infecti0n to rise by 6 times. Be kind of odd
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If that is directed at me, do what ever you want.
Dade County Florida has twice the population of over 2 million
It has 9,000 cases and 200 deaths. Pick what ever statistic you want. People are out and about there also.
In my County we have less than 1 million with 731 cases and 35 deaths. So play with numbers all day.
Has nothing to do with a "hoax" or the media
OP
Puller
Member
And there you have it! Someone on a Internet Gun forum has figured out the mystery!
The media has conned and perpetuated a Hoax that has faked out all the Medical Doctors, Scientists, assorted experts, citizens and Governments of the entire world!
When is your book coming out or better yet maybe get with Michel Moore and produce a movie.? It was all a hoax
Never since War of the Worlds with Orson Wells has there been such a good one!
The cool thing about this is the evidence, one way or the other, will come out.
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hemiram
Member
I am waiting to see if the country is reopened too early and cases spike again, what the "We want our lives back NOW!!" bunch does. Who will they turn on? Who will be blamed for "killing a bunch of people for money!" It's going to be interesting.
There may be a number of factors besides or in addition to mitigation efforts. A few that come immediately to mind are
Differences in population density
Differences in age demographics
Differences in ethnicity demographics
Differences in healthcare
Differences in rates of flu vaccines (some evidence this may be a factor)
Differences in mass transit use
Maybe the same kinds of reasons why NY has 8 times more cases and 16 times the deaths of Pennsylvania and 300 times more cases and 425 times the deaths of Vermont. Whatever those differences are.
Your simplistic framing of the question benefits your argument, but doesn't necessarily represent the whole picture.
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