The Russians have gone in

[ladder13]

This explains the crisis in a nutshell.

"So, Ukraine is a country in Europe. It exists next to another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade a smaller country called Ukraine. So basically, that's wrong." VP, 3/1/22.

Kamala Explains It All: 'Ukraine Is A Country'

Saturday Night Live material.

 

[oldbrownhat]

Watching the war on Russian TV - a whole different story

BBC article here. "All the news that's fit to fake comrade!"

An excerpt:

"Never was there a better illustration of the alternative reality presented by Russian state media than at 17:00 GMT on Tuesday. As BBC World TV opened its bulletin with reports of a Russian attack on a TV tower in the capital Kyiv, Russian TV was announcing that Ukraine was responsible for strikes on its own cities....

On Tuesday the normal running order is interrupted at 05:30 Moscow time [02:30 GMT]. The presenters announce that TV schedules have been changed "due to well known events", and there will be more news and current affairs. The news bulletin suggests that reports about Ukrainian forces destroying Russian military hardware are false, designed to "mislead inexperienced viewers".

"Footage continues to be circulated on the internet which cannot be described as anything but fake," the presenter explains as the viewer is shown photographs of what is described as "unsophisticated virtual manipulations".

Russia's Channel One presenter showed two photos of the same military vehicle - the top photo is captioned "Donbas 2014" and the bottom one "Ukrainian montage". He claims the top photo is of a Ukrainian vehicle destroyed in the conflict zone in 2014 and that the bottom photo is of the same image, manipulated to make it look like newly destroyed Russian hardware. He says a "Z" has been added - a common marking for Russian military equipment.

 

[AJ]

I hope everyone remembers that we and the UK guaranteed Ukraine's borders if they gave up their nukes. They did their part.

MEMORANDUM ON SECURITY ASSURANCES IN CONNECTION WITH UKRAINE'S ACCESSION TO THE TREATY ON THE NON-PROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS
Budapest, 5 December 1994

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,

Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,

Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,

Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.

Confirm the following:

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.

This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.

Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages.

I think someone forget to tell or remind Uncle Joe & Uncle Boris of their countries pledges.

 

[Absalom]

I think someone forget to tell or remind Uncle Joe & Uncle Boris of their countries pledges.

It actually looks to me that they, and a lot of other countries not party to the agreement, such as the entire EU and the Swiss, are fully engaged in meeting their obligations.

The text of the agreement makes it crystal clear that there is no military commitment and no thought of "If one of us invades you, the others go to war for you." All there is are commitments to "provide assistance to Ukraine" and "seek UN Security Council action", both of which has happened.

In 20/20 hindsight, were the Ukrainians a bit naive to think this would be enough of a deterrent? Did they maybe believe, like most others, that the age of war between European countries was just over and done with? Should they have insisted on military guarantees?

Probably. But as I pointed out earlier, the Ukranians back in the 1990s weren't in much of a position to make a lot of demands. And with the slaughter of civil conflict elsewhere, in Rwanda and Yugoslavia, reaching its peak years, the world was busy with other stuff.

 

[AJ]

It actually looks to me that they, and a lot of other countries not party to the agreement, such as the entire EU and the Swiss, are fully engaged in meeting their obligations.

The text of the agreement makes it crystal clear that there is no military commitment and no thought of "If one of us invades you, the others go to war for you." All there is are commitments to "provide assistance to Ukraine" and "seek UN Security Council action", both of which has happened.

In 20/20 hindsight, were the Ukrainians a bit naive to think this would be enough of a deterrent? Did they maybe believe, like most others, that the age of war between European countries was just over and done with? Should they have insisted on military guarantees?

Probably. But as I pointed out earlier, the Ukranians back in the 1990s weren't in much of a position to make a lot of demands. And with the slaughter of civil conflict elsewhere, in Rwanda and Yugoslavia, reaching its peak years, the world was busy with other stuff.

Maybe my way of thinking is a bit off....but this section sounds to me like "we will get you some help".

"The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used."

Looks like the Russians are helping them out by trying to take over their country. I guess the Russians are not aggressors, they are just protectors.......

 

[ladder13]

Hundreds of thousands of civilians killed, or wounded?


Russia has launched more than 450 missiles on Ukraine; UN calls for ceasefire

 

[Absalom]

Maybe my way of thinking is a bit off....but this section sounds to me like "we will get you some help".

"The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used ."

Looks like the Russians are helping them out by trying to take over their country. I guess the Russians are not aggressors, they are just protectors.......

The problem with trying to go legalistic on the actual text of the agreement is that you are gutting it completely, because the whole promise of assistance and protection, at least in the English text as provided by biku324, doesn't even apply to this invasion since the Russians haven't used nuclear weapons.

And Putin's threat with nuclear weapons was directed against other countries interfering, not Ukraine. So in terms of the agreement, Ukraine is left with nothing.

We may not be doing enough, but it's certainly not a matter of not fulfilling any obligation.

 

[dockmurgw]

I really like this tax rule:
Ukrainian authorities say captured Russian tanks won't be counted as part of citizens' income.
They said seized tanks and military equipment need not be declared for tax purposes.
The capture of such materials will be considered a "manifestation of the unity and cohesion of the Ukrainian people," said the authorities.

 

[biku324]

Well, THIS does it! I'm never vacationing in Eritrea, Syria, or North Korea again!

The United Nations on Wednesday passed a resolution condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine in an extraordinary effort to unite member countries against Russia, which holds a permanent seat on the Security Council.

Of the 193-member body, 141 nations voted in favor of the resolution, with 35 abstentions and five voting against, including Russia, Belarus, Syria, Eritrea and North Korea.

The text of the resolution included "demands that the Russian Federation immediately, completely, and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders."

 

[AJ]

Well, THIS does it! I'm never vacationing in Eritrea, Syria, or North Korea again!

The United Nations on Wednesday passed a resolution condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine in an extraordinary effort to unite member countries against Russia, which holds a permanent seat on the Security Council.

Of the 193-member body, 141 nations voted in favor of the resolution, with 35 abstentions and five voting against, including Russia, Belarus, Syria, Eritrea and North Korea.

The text of the resolution included "demands that the Russian Federation immediately, completely, and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders."

A lot of darn good that is going to do........

 

[bushmaster1313]

I want to believe Free World is pretending to not help Ukraine-But I don't

I want to believe that the countries of the free world are pretending to not send serious military aid to Ukraine while actually sending massive amounts of heavy weaponry out of the public eye.

But I am afraid it is a but a pipe dream and an innocent lamb is being left on its own to be slaughtered and devoured by the Russian bear.

It makes me sad and angry.

 

[UncleEd]

Bushmaster has just stated
something that is perhaps
closer to reality: NATO is
providing more help than
is obvious.

Those who want to see U.S/
NATO military might openly
flexed perhaps are missing
the actual moves being made.

Many Americans believe the
U.S. must achieve its goals
by always unleashing bombers
and aircraft carriers for the
world's cameras to see.

The goal, though a bit slower,
is to burn all the Russian
tanks without making it
into a TV news show.

The apparent elimination of
a Russian hit squad run by
a Chechen general who was
killed is a quiet example of
what is going on.

 

[Kevin J.]

The United Nations on Wednesday passed a resolution condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine in an extraordinary effort to unite member countries against Russia, which holds a permanent seat on the Security Council.

Of the 193-member body, 141 nations voted in favor of the resolution, with 35 abstentions and five voting against, including Russia, Belarus, Syria, Eritrea and North Korea.

"

To be followed up with a strongly worded letter. Hey it's the UN.

 

[Greyman50]

Wow, just remember 1914, times may have changed but the mentality of certain parties have not.

 

[UncleEd]

To be followed up with a strongly worded letter. Hey it's the UN.

The vote could and may well
represent the overwhelming
world sanctioning of Russia
and its economy.

And the Russian people,
particularly its young, are showing
their bravery by taking to the
streets in ever greater numbers.
Does Putin's police have the
ability to arrest nearly everyone
under 35 in the country?

 

[Chief Wiggums]

But I am afraid it is a but a pipe dream and an innocent lamb is being left on its own to be slaughtered and devoured by the Russian bear. .

well stated.
The resolve of the Ukrainian people will be admired and spoken for many ages to come...

However their effort and results are not sustainable...without significant assistance from EU and others.

Is this our war?
Nope , not a chance.
But for how long?

We are engaged in a world wide crisis, mankind is at the proverbial 'fork in the middle of the road'.

Today , being Ash Weds , was a great day to go to church and bend a knee.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

The face of things to come. IIRC, STARSHINA is a rank?

Starshina is a senior NCO. On a par with a First Sergeant/Master Sergeant

 

[tlawler]

Starshina is a senior NCO. On a par with a First Sergeant/Master Sergeant

Or a Petty Officer First Class

 

[Rudi]

The UN is an expensive joke that we pay most/all of the bill for.

 

[LVSteve]

Yep, looks like a a big IED!

With the amount of reactive armor many nations use most tanks are a rolling IED.