kwill1911
Member
I'd share it if I had it but I don't have such data. :-(
The seductive Model 39s as collectors' subculture.
- Thread starter model3sw
- Start date
I'd share it if I had it but I don't have such data. :-(
I know nothing about the Jack Webb story re. a model 39. I have though seen and handled the engraved model 39 that was given to Buddy Hackett, by one of the Las Vegas casinos. I believe that Jan Murry had been given one as well.
Engine49guy
Member
Sal unfortunately Photobucket is holding my pics hostage but have a few notes from my collection.
My earliest is Pre Model 39 Blue, Serial 1644, shipped July 1956 .
Short tang, flat mag follower, short safety lever, non relieved left grip panel, slide serrations further back surround safety lever, no dust cover groove cut on frame.
Model marked 39, Blue, Serial 2875 shipped April 1959 (only 1231 higher).
Has old style slide with serrations around safety, new long tang style frame, longer safety lever and relieved Left grip panel.
Model 39 , Blue, Serial 68490 shipped Oct 1966, Slide serrations moved fwd, frame has groove cut for dust cover, figure 8 mag follower.
Model 39-2 , Blue, Serial A194274 Shipped May 1973, Other than the new extractor has the older features found on the no dash such as :
Hole in hammer, enclosed barrel bushing, non slotted mag release button.
Model 59 Blue, Serial A265338 Shipped Oct 1975, No hole in hammer, fully enclosed barrel bushing, plastic mag follower. (early Model 59's have an aluminum follower and use the Model 39 safety lever with a frame relief cut to clear it , at around this time the safety lever was lengthened so it stuck out a bit to clear the 59 slide negating the need to relieve the 59 frame , Note the early 39-2 slide will not work on a later 59 frame because the safety wont clear a non relieved 59 frame.
IIRC the change to the "Horseshoe" shape barrel bushing occurs around late 75
Model 59 Blue, Serial A360615 Shipped Sept 1976, Has new style horseshoe barrel bushing.
My highest 1st gen is
Model 59 Blue, Serial A710244 Shipped Nov 1981,
The features that stand out are the barrel bushing and safety lever are a purplish colour and there was a change to the safety lever grooves so the encircle the front of the lever like a race track.
Note IIRC S&W began producing second gen 459's by this time so there are supposedly 459's with slightly lower serials.
Model 539, Blue, Serial A792711 Shipped March 1983,
steel frame, new large adjustable rear site for windage and yardage, round trigger guard.
Model 639, SS , Serial A841347 Shipped April 1984,
Small rear site dovetailed in slide, round trigger guard, ambi safety lever.
My earliest is Pre Model 39 Blue, Serial 1644, shipped July 1956 .
Short tang, flat mag follower, short safety lever, non relieved left grip panel, slide serrations further back surround safety lever, no dust cover groove cut on frame.
Model marked 39, Blue, Serial 2875 shipped April 1959 (only 1231 higher).
Has old style slide with serrations around safety, new long tang style frame, longer safety lever and relieved Left grip panel.
Model 39 , Blue, Serial 68490 shipped Oct 1966, Slide serrations moved fwd, frame has groove cut for dust cover, figure 8 mag follower.
Model 39-2 , Blue, Serial A194274 Shipped May 1973, Other than the new extractor has the older features found on the no dash such as :
Hole in hammer, enclosed barrel bushing, non slotted mag release button.
Model 59 Blue, Serial A265338 Shipped Oct 1975, No hole in hammer, fully enclosed barrel bushing, plastic mag follower. (early Model 59's have an aluminum follower and use the Model 39 safety lever with a frame relief cut to clear it , at around this time the safety lever was lengthened so it stuck out a bit to clear the 59 slide negating the need to relieve the 59 frame , Note the early 39-2 slide will not work on a later 59 frame because the safety wont clear a non relieved 59 frame.
IIRC the change to the "Horseshoe" shape barrel bushing occurs around late 75
Model 59 Blue, Serial A360615 Shipped Sept 1976, Has new style horseshoe barrel bushing.
My highest 1st gen is
Model 59 Blue, Serial A710244 Shipped Nov 1981,
The features that stand out are the barrel bushing and safety lever are a purplish colour and there was a change to the safety lever grooves so the encircle the front of the lever like a race track.
Note IIRC S&W began producing second gen 459's by this time so there are supposedly 459's with slightly lower serials.
Model 539, Blue, Serial A792711 Shipped March 1983,
steel frame, new large adjustable rear site for windage and yardage, round trigger guard.
Model 639, SS , Serial A841347 Shipped April 1984,
Small rear site dovetailed in slide, round trigger guard, ambi safety lever.
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Just picked up my 1st model 39, it's a Illinois State Police marked specimen with the long style extractor. Very nice condition with near perfect bluing & nicely finished walnut grips.
Look forward to learning about this pistol, I've been a shooter/reloader for nearly 40 years, but this is my 1st 9mm.
Brad
Look forward to learning about this pistol, I've been a shooter/reloader for nearly 40 years, but this is my 1st 9mm.
Brad
hkcavalier
US Veteran
I ended up moving my pics to imgur.com.
Here's #1173. Love to see its slightly younger sibling!
41Special; They were the 1st LEA to go to 9mm semi auto. You have got yourself a WINNER.
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I Have One....
A 39-2. Here are some pics.
I had a 59 years ago, wish I had kept it. I shot like a laser.
Ned
A 39-2. Here are some pics.
I had a 59 years ago, wish I had kept it. I shot like a laser.
Ned
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lhump1961
US Veteran
The OP is in good company when opining that the blue controls on a nickel gun look better than the all nickel but I'm not sure I agree. They both look good but I lean to the all nickel. The blue controls I admit look good but I think they did it to save money.
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OP
I ended up moving my pics to imgur.com.
Here's #1173. Love to see its slightly younger sibling!
I'm sure Engine49guy will pop up with a few pix when or if he can get the pix out of PhotoBucket prison.
Among my pre-39s I have 1021, 1093, 1130 (with box), 1843 (the only pre-39 I have in the original box with all contents, complete with the green booklet) and a few more in the 2000 range (Highest SN is 2605) including a factory engraved.
To my knowledge, Rich Sopko (Cougar015) has the only other pre-39 factory engraved, I've ever seen. Likely (I surmise) Richard McMillan has a few too, as he is the oldest and longest years of collecting 39 variations. But, aside from those ... that's "it" for the factory engraved pre-39s. There aren't many of them.
1130 came with a very old 1975 letter that reads it shipped on November 8th 1955 (but does not say to where), just 3 days after the Flux Capacitor was invented ... LOL. I have a son that is 40 years old who loves Back to the Future. I promised him #1130 as it is the closest ship date I have to November 5, 1955.
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39's are interesting. I was never s S&W auto guy, but the 39 always intrigued me. It has such sleek lines, and just fits into the hand. I did acquire one, a little earlier one, last year, s/n in the 607xx range.
Quite a few told me it had to be a steel frame, but it isn't. But when I got a ship date form Roy he mentioned, you should letter it, it is interesting. Naturally I did letter it, and seem it is a single gun having been shipped to Sweden as a test gun for the Swedish Air Force. It appears to have been never fired, and with the long extractor I hear so much about (breaking and no replacements available) I haven't shot it either. I keep telling myself I should buy a 39-2 as a shooter.
Quite a few told me it had to be a steel frame, but it isn't. But when I got a ship date form Roy he mentioned, you should letter it, it is interesting. Naturally I did letter it, and seem it is a single gun having been shipped to Sweden as a test gun for the Swedish Air Force. It appears to have been never fired, and with the long extractor I hear so much about (breaking and no replacements available) I haven't shot it either. I keep telling myself I should buy a 39-2 as a shooter.
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OP
Jack Webb's, as Roy replied to Mike Borkovic's question in the "ask Roy" section of the private S&WCA side of the forum, was his badge number, 714. I don't believe there were a series or run of certain numbers prior to the production run starting at 1001, but there were some specifically numbered lower than 1001, as presentations or promotional gifts ... and ... a few tool room experimental in the X-### serial range. One of the older papers / parts list (included with the earlier 39s after the green booklet ceased) supplied with a pre-39 shows a "X" serial numbered, tool room, pre-39. I have yet to see one of those few X serial numbered pre-39s but I'd be humbled and impressed to see one, in person, even if the owner did not wish to part with it.
I have, however, seen and handled, just one single action 9mm (or model 44) many years ago in Tulsa in a member to member sale.
My 1021 has a different extractor than the commercially released 9mm with the long extractor. As soon as I get some time I'll post a few pictures.
Brad, Engine49guy, has studied the finer changes in the frames, hammers, levers and the magazines when short to a bit longer to very long, to the final most common production version, etc. which more precisely extends the one, major, study/ article written by Richard McMillan an S&WCA Journal ... not sure which issue but at "least" 20 years ago, IIRC. I scanned that article (which is amazing) and will gladly share with fellow members who ask. I'm hoping other member 39 collectors could help with this and other resarch.
BTW, I need a set of pre-model number stocks where the left side panel is non-relieved for the safety lever. One of my pre-39s has a set of stocks that are very nice condition, however, not "correct"for the short safety lever but it is the the higher end of the serial number range of the pre-39s so may be those made in preparation for the production to change to the longer safety lever.
Also, after conferring with a few collectors, it seems ALL the pre-39s had magazines with the flat follower much like the Pre-70 Colt 1911s.
We need the earliest serial number sighting of a ANIB Model 39 with the stamped steel followers (Figure 8s).
I have about 30 or 40 spare mags with the stamped steel (figure 8) followers with a variety of different bottom plates in length and markings.
I'd like to get a group together to document those. Some of them have freakishly long tongues on the bottom plate. I also have 3 Military magazines with the stamped steel (figure 8) followers. 1 blue and 2 are chrome plated. Anyone else see chrome plated magazines of any 39 variation, but with stamped steel followers, regardless of classifications.
Another topic concerning the magazines I am not sure "if" or "when" S&W started supplying nickeled bottom plates on magazines supplied with nickeled M39s and 39-2s. It seems not to be a "rule" but rather an exception ... or so I surmise. For example, IIRC the 39-2 Connecticut State Police came with 2 x 2 tone magazines (plastic followers) with nickeled floor plates that were serial numbered to the Commemorative number (not the S&W serial number).
I wish S&W had made that exact model without the Connecticut State Police Comm logos and inscriptions because I think that one looks "hot" ... and ... it was supplied with a low profile, fully adjustable (height and just not windage like the standard "lollipop" rear sight" rear sight when before that only MMC made a fully adjustable rear sight that did not require machine work to mill off the factory front sight (integral on the slide) and stake-in a higher new sight, like Millett. I still have a few sets of Millets and the Millet installation tool which isn't worth a darn unless your're committed to doing the sight upgrade (to full target sights) properly.
We all know if a nickel gun had to go out the door and there were no nickeled bottom plates in stock, they leave boxed up and shipped with blue mags. I have seen what seems to be stainless or galvanized (not sure if galvanized magazine bodies and floor plates but not sure if there was, actually, a nickel plated magazine body. Can anyone help ?
I don't know that I ever surmised a "rule" pertaining to matte finish magazines ... these seem almost black parkerized but I cannot state that to a fact.
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Love this. I bought my first one a couple years ago. NIB type, and I wanted to shoot it so I bought a second one, still very nice, but at half the proice of the first one. Now I really want a nickel one. Just as soon as we finish this flip house....
I have always liked the M39, they do feel great in the hand. My first 9mm was a M39-2 back in about 1981. I have had a couple of M59's and a 3913 but never really warmed up to other S&W semi autos. Last year I decided to take a step back in the past and I picked up a nickel M39-2, this one was imported back into the US from Israel where it had spent its life with Israeli police or security.
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kwill1911
Member
Does it have Israeli proof marks? If so could you post a close up picture? Thanks.
Well, if the price of 50s and 60s 9mm was increasing, after this thread, they will surely skyrocket.
OP
Why not the 3913 ? I think the 3913 was one of the best model revisions of the series. This is the one that basically put Davel and ASP out of business.
Nope, no Israeli proof marks. It had Indian wood stocks on it. It came direct from CDI sales, CDI importers marking is on the barrel, and verified from them that it was in a batch of S&W semi autos that they bought from Israel. I have been thinking of getting it lettered just to see where it went from the factory.
this is how it looked the day that I picked it up.
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OP
Mike, I think the prices now are way out of control. I was hoping to show, by the sheer quantity produced and what remains out there, they should not be selling for say $1000.00. That's just nuts unless it is a scarce model or some significant change, oddity or special order features. Sal
PS: Just the past few weeks I've been watching the entire 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen sales on a major online auction site. Other than some that I saw sell with "suspicious" bids, they were mostly within range.
Now I see 59s going through the roof when a few months back $500 NIB model 59 (nickel or blue) was a near impossibility.
Very informative thread. My fascination with the 39's go way back to the mid-70's. I've had several over the years but all found better homes (usually to fund another "find").
Just ran across an early "39". Ser# 880xx. Just the pistol w/ one magazine. I would guess maybe 1968 or so???. Pretty good shape overall but most of frame has speckles (like grains of salt) all over. Not a pristine example so shooter for certain. Still haunting me,,,,, especially @ $400.
Just ran across an early "39". Ser# 880xx. Just the pistol w/ one magazine. I would guess maybe 1968 or so???. Pretty good shape overall but most of frame has speckles (like grains of salt) all over. Not a pristine example so shooter for certain. Still haunting me,,,,, especially @ $400.
