Thinking about a new M29 but a new M10 has me worried

[HappyJack]

Just bought a new model 10-14 to run a bunch of .38 spl ammo through. Fit was ok on the gun but finish seemed to give me the impression of a cheap gun. Can't really explain it. Ran a patch through the barrel as soon as I had it home and it came out with a good amount of rust. Took it shooting the first time and it is really stiff. Trigger rebound spring is having trouble with the rough action resetting the trigger. Brought it home from the range and pulled the side plate and found a small amount of rust on the inside of the backing plate. Could not see rust anywhere else and I just sprayed Ballistol on the action and clean the rust off the backing plate. Went back to the range and no real change. Barrel is really tight and feels like a 9mm when I run cleaning brushes and patches through it. Barrel was really hot at the range compared to like number of rounds through my M13 3". It shot fairly well with just a 1/2 again as large a group (Size of single hole middle with 100 rounds each at single target) as the 3" 13. Action is so rough I don't want to put lighter springs in it. Most likely I will just put another 500-1000 rounds through it. I don't shoot .38 spl in my .357's as I hate the buildup in the cylinder that makes reloading a problem. I do not want to put any more money into this revolver in gunsmith action work. Maybe should have just looked for an old 4" model 10 square butt. I have a lot of .38 spl I want shoot and wanted this new model 10 to use to do it and keep my skill level for the M13 I carry.

I have wanted a model 29 for a while but not really enough to pay the money for one. And it would just be a range gun and not a carry gun like my K frames. And with an older used gun you never know what you get. And higher price does not even make the gun without problems. So I have been drawn to the new current production model 29. Question is my feeling of lack of quality in look and feel I have with the new model 10 not to mention rust. Is this the same with the regular production M29? Are custom shop guns the way to go to avoid the rust and get a smoother more consistent action. Improved cylinder opening and closing. Or should I just look for an older non lock M29? Guess what I am asking is about the quality of the new production of the old K and N frame S&W revolvers.

 

[stansdds]

S&W's blueing process has changed a lot over the years. The old, Carbonia oil blue was certainly the best looking, that ended during 1980. The black oxide process used from 1980 to about 2000 was good, but more of a black than a blue. The current process is said to be EPA friendly and produces a very black finish, but the finish, to me, looks thin. There are numerous reports of this new finish turning a plum color when exposed to solvents that contain ammonia or ammoniated compounds and S&W advises that such solvents not be used.
As for the rusty barrel, that is something I would have looked at when purchasing. I know old firearms can have rust, but new ones should have no rust at all, but may have a reddish colored rust inhibiting coating. You sure it was rust?

 

[CajunBass]

I've got a 29-10, about 2014 that I picked up not long ago used. I think the finish looks fine. I don't know who had it before me, or how they cleaned it. I don't used Hoppes on it, just a CLP product and that seems to do just fine. I'm gradually trying to wean myself off Hoppes anyway. I mostly stick to 44 Special type loads, but it's just a range toy to me. I've never carried it in a holster, only in a range bag, but it's almost ten years old and still looks pretty good to me.

This is my Model 29-10 from 2014.

This is my Model 57-1 from 1985

Whatever looks like a dull spot on either, it just my poor photography skills, and poor lighting.

I don't know that there is a lot of difference really. I've given both a light buffing with Flitz, then multiple coats of Ren Wax. Ren wax and a soft rag is my version of a "fidget spinner."

I did replace the grips on the 29 with a set of Hogues for now. The originals look good, but are thinner than I like.

I agree with stansdds, that what you thought was rust in the barrel of a new gun was most likely the reddish oil they put in them as a preservative. I've had my hair stand up a time or two on that on myself.

I almost never buy anything but a used gun. The vast majority of them aren't there because there is anything wrong with them, they're there because the previous owner wanted something different, needed cash, didn't want grandpaws old gun, or they had to have the latest, greatest whatchamacallit. I've seen dozens that I don't think had ever been fired before I got them, or like the two above, probably not more than 50 rounds.

I'm also one who trades in guns in perfect working order, for any and all of the above reasons. I used to just sell them privately, but the new background check law in Virginia has about killed that.

Don't be afraid to look into a used gun. There is probably a thread on this board explaining what to look for and how to check them out. I've been doing it for so long, I don't know if I could tell you what I do anymore, but smarter people than I am have. If not on this board, a search will turn up the information.

 

[murphydog]

Sorry for your troubles with your new model 10. Revolvers are labor-intensive and S & W eliminated the fitting department a few years back, meaning guns are assembled and presumed to be good to go, which yours by report was not. Cycling the action and shooting it may smooth things out over time.

My impression is a current "PC" gun gets the same attention a regular production line fitter would have given it prior to shipping from a few years back. Even with this there are stories about unsatisfactory guns making it out to buyers.

All things considered, looking for a really nice older model 10 (or 29) seems like a good idea, especially as it sounds as though you can recognize a good example.

 

[HappyJack]

For a new firearm or even a used one, an internet purchase has been my go to. So inspection prior to purchase is not possible. Pretty sure it was rust with rust particles on the patch and the inside of the backing plate. The crane seems to have a lot of early wear on the bottom side. And there is one out of the six rounds I fire that goes really quick and a couple that almost lock up and take a lot of trigger pull to fire the very last bit that drops the hammer. This is in double action. Has me question cylinder alignment. That with difficulty in opening and closing the cylinder. I do not know of a good S&W smith in my area. This is why I ask about S&W's custom shop and having a new M29 purchased through them. Wanting to know if they are really good about inspection and tunning the crane as well as stoning the inner works. When I was in law enforcement and had a new gun I would have it gone through by the range officer that worked on the department issued S&W K frames. They would check the cylinder to forcing cone gaps and had a tool stand to tune the crane that held the cylinder and some different stones to debur and polish the inner working parts. That was long ago and they now have switched to semi autos.

Right now I have different size jars with old Hoppies in them to soak different parts. I have the cylinder soaking in a jar now to remove fouling from the chambers and throats and well as the front of the cylinder. Makes cleaning a bit easier and takes less time than just a lot of brushing and patch work. And does a much better job. I have not noticed any ill effects on the finish. I have 150 plated bullets trough it with CFE pistol (copper fouling eraser)powder. The ammo I bought it to use up is all lead. I am using the plated first to smooth and season the barrel. And plan to switch to the lead bullets. Might even consider sending the M10 to the custom shop if they are really good. I am in KS and remember reading about a S&W smith in the KC area and might just make the 3 hour drive if one is still available. All my local guys are just semi auto and AR smiths.

It does shoot like my other S&W K frames for the most part and that is why I bought it. Practice and train with it and carry one of my M13's.

 

[luvsmiths]

Sounds kinda like the new CZ Pythons...

it's all about the money now.

Id gladly pay MORE for an older one, if it were me. You have to worry more "about what you're getting" with the new guns.

 

[stansdds]

Maybe that particular Model 10 was the last one put together on a Friday afternoon and needs to be returned to the mother ship.

 

[Rpg]

In recent years, it seems that Smith has cut back on quality control in favor of cost cutting.

Smith’s current ‘blue’ isn’t blue and seems quite fragile. The action is usually rough. Fit and finish is usually indifferent.

If I wanted a revolver to burn up a bunch of 38’s, I’d locate a used M10-5. Smith made zillions of them and a nice one can be purchased for less than $450 (compare that with $900 , the price of a new M10-14).

Many, if not most, used M29’s are barely used: it’s common that they have less than a box of ammo through them. New 29 Classics sell for $1,360.00. For that, you get the disappointing, fragile new ‘blue’ finish, indifferent fit and finish and a rough action.

Used M29-2’s are readily available for under $1,000. For that, you get a wonderful finish, beautiful fit and finish and an action that is much better than the new 29 action and often much much better. A used 29-3 can be had for even less and all you give up is pinned barrel and recessed chambers in comparison with the M29-2.

I can’t imagine a good reason to buy a newly produced M10 or 29.

 

[kaaskop49]

A Model 10, of whatever vintage, is a terrible thing to waste. Either take it to a competent 'smith to completely take it down or contact S&W to have it sent back. Always include a letter with the gun describing in detail what is wrong.

Your 10 sounds like it has my name on it! With 10's, there is always more there than is not there. Would love to try to shoot that gun into shape. 10's and 64's love me because they like to be shot. At the very least, get it to that 'local' 'smith for a teardown. Wish you well.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[daveyc]

In recent years, it seems that Smith has cut back on quality control in favor of cost cutting.

Smith’s current ‘blue’ isn’t blue and seems quite fragile. The action is usually rough. Fit and finish is usually indifferent.

If I wanted a revolver to burn up a bunch of 38’s, I’d locate a used M10-5. Smith made zillions of them and a nice one can be purchased for less than $450 (compare that with $900 , the price of a new M10-14).

Many, if not most, used M29’s are barely used: it’s common that they have less than a box of ammo through them. New 29 Classics sell for $1,360.00. For that, you get the disappointing, fragile new ‘blue’ finish, indifferent fit and finish and a rough action.

Used M29-2’s are readily available for under $1,000. For that, you get a wonderful finish, beautiful fit and finish and an action that is much better than the new 29 action and often much much better. A used 29-3 can be had for even less and all you give up is pinned barrel and recessed chambers in comparison with the M29-2.

I can’t imagine a good reason to buy a newly produced M10 or 29.

I can think of a couple: the 2 revolvers you mentioned have neither the endurance or accuracy package that a modern revolver will have. In addition neither of the older revolvers you mentioned will come with the lifetime warranty of a new revolver.

 

[Rpg]

You’re right about the warranty. You’ll need it with the M10-14 and current model of the M29. You won’t need one for a M10-5 or M29-2.

I’ve never seen a functional benefit to the packages you mention.

 

[daveyc]

You’re right about the warranty. You’ll need it with the M10-14 and current model of the M29. You won’t need one for a M10-5 or M29-2.

I’ve never seen a functional benefit to the packages you mention.

any gun can break. with enough use, any gun can have parts wear out. these are just mechanical devices. so yes, a warranty is valuable. even for pre lock vintage models.

as far as the endurance package, if you shoot enough high-energy rounds, you would definitely see a functional benefit. I have personally experienced cylinders rotating backwards under recoil. If you are a collector and not a shooter, i agree, you will never see a functional benefit.

 

[chief38]

If you can find a vintage M10 in a LGS and it checks out-grab it! You should also look at the new Colt line-up. They are great!

 

[chief38]

Let’s HOPE S&W really gets their act together in their new Digs!

 

[Greyman50]

Solution is to completely disassemble revolver, debur and Lightly stone moving parts including springs. Stone the Bottom of the rebound bar to remove sorry finish. If possible stone inside of frame where rebound bar rides.
As mentioned, I would not buy Any new mfged pistol unless a Dan Wesson.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Look for Used but not Abused.
Roll the Dice and pay the Price!

 

[luvsmiths]

I can think of a couple: the 2 revolvers you mentioned have neither the endurance or accuracy package that a modern revolver will have. In addition neither of the older revolvers you mentioned will come with the lifetime warranty of a new revolver.

I never needed the warranty on any of my "old" revolvers, and from what Ive read here, the warranties on the NEW guns are basically worthless.

 

[D1911]

I've only bought one "newer" S&W. A few months ago I went to my local shop and my bud said they had just got in a couple of new PC 642-1s. What makes it different from the standard 642 is the flutes of the cylinder, side plate screws and cylinder release are polished, the trigger is rounded and polished and it has a PC "action tune". I decided what the heck, I don't have a J-frame, so I gave it a quick once over (specifically looked for the over clocked barrel) and bought it. At the time, I was there to purchase another gun (An SA Prodigy) and was more excited about it than the 642. I did notice the 642's cylinder was a bit tough to open but I thought it would ease up after some use. In California, we have a 10 day wait and during that time, I thought about the cylinder issue with the 642. I went to the shop to check it out and discovered the end of the ejector rod looked like it had been tightened with a pair of pliars. I had missed that when I looked at the gun initially. I told my friend about that issue and my concern about the stiff cylinder release, so back it went to S&W. Both issues were repaired and into the safe it went upon pick-up. I was doing some dry firing a while back and noticed that as I cycled the action, the pull got rough about 3/4 of the way through. I was actually able to get it to stick if I cycled it slowly (See pic). Overall, not impress at all with the PC version and their "action tune". I could send it back but will likely just detail strip it and give everything a light polish (and maybe a Wolff spring kit). If that doesn't help, it'll eventually belong to someone else. Sorry for the long post.

 

[Greyman50]

Well it does not have the lock…..

 

[PALADIN85020]

Older is better as far as I'm concerned. This 10-2 dates from May, 1962 and remains new in the box. Perfectly fitted and equipped with numbered plain clothes stocks. I'd prefer it to any of the new ones.

John