This mornings thoughts about my country

[Bullseye 2620]

What used to be the American Dream, striving for the goal of working for a family, home and community is now being touted as a fundamental right.
That far fetched agenda is so wide spread even in advertising (you deserve...) the only hope I see is that the number of believers is fewer than appears from the media.

Consider this: the Department of Commerce reported in 2016 that it now takes an annual household income of ~ $135,000 to live the middle class American Dream -- to own or be buying a home, vehicles for every adult member of the household, some savings for retirement and putting the kids through college, a vacation every year.

Yet only the top 10 percent of households earn that much -- you've got to be in the top 10 percent to be middle class in today's America, something increasingly rare outside the Beltway. People are angry that they're nowhere close to that standard of living, and know that they have been cheated. Thirty years of no net wage gains. That hasn't happened for no reason.

Most people aren't policy wonks, but they know a rotten deal when they see one, and so their impulse is to simply upset the apple cart in the hopes that they'll end up killing the worms that are devouring the apples from the inside.

But folks inside the Beltway, and in the commentariat, for the most part don't see any of this because it doesn't touch their lives. Their kids are in good schools and headed to good colleges. They've got the prospect of a decent retirement.

The 90% for whom those outcomes are less assured have had enough.

I'll stop now before I get political and get dinged.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

For too many the American Dream is becoming a welfare mother at 15 or 16 and enjoying a Life of Leisure on the taxpayer's dollar, or being declared "disabled" and doing the same thing,

 

[Sistema1927]

Consider this: the Department of Commerce reported in 2016 that it now takes an annual household income of ~ $135,000 to live the middle class American Dream -- to own or be buying a home, vehicles for every adult member of the household, some savings for retirement and putting the kids through college, a vacation every year.

Part of the problem is this definition of "American Dream". For example, when the kids went to college, they paid for it. My son on a full scholarship, and my daughter by working and spreading out her studies. That is because I also had to pay my own way, to include my Masters Degree, and without incurring student debt.

Many people put themselves deep in debt for things like weddings. When we got married we did it all for under $500, but we are just as hitched after 42 years. We didn't fork out big bucks to get the kids hitched either.

Some folks spend thousands on vacation, when all they need is a a week in the mountains with a tent and a fishing pole. That is not to say that we haven't enjoyed great vacations, including overseas, but we always looked for ways to cut costs. We don't do the big ones every year, maybe one year in five, with lots of camping in between.

The Apostle Paul put it best when he said that godliness with contentment is great gain (1 Timothy 6:6).

 

[Marshwheeling]

The problem is beginning to become clear.

 

[dockmurgw]

Part of the problem is this definition of "American Dream". For example, when the kids went to college, they paid for it. My son on a full scholarship, and my daughter by working and spreading out her studies. That is because I also had to pay my own way, to include my Masters Degree, and without incurring student debt.

Many people put themselves deep in debt for things like weddings. When we got married we did it all for under $500, but we are just as hitched after 42 years. We didn't fork out big bucks to get the kids hitched either.

Some folks spend thousands on vacation, when all they need is a a week in the mountains with a tent and a fishing pole. That is not to say that we haven't enjoyed great vacations, including overseas, but we always looked for ways to cut costs. We don't do the big ones every year, maybe one year in five, with lots of camping in between.

The Apostle Paul put it best when he said that godliness with contentment is great gain (1 Timothy 6:6).

Best post in this entire thread. I would like to add that the infatuation society has with college as the be all end all is doing some kids a great disservice. There not all cut out for it. My household income is well over the stated middle class threshold, neither my wife or I have degrees. My daughter went to college, but settled on a career as a State Trooper. The education requirement? HS diploma or GED. My son celebrated his 18th birthday on Parris Island, got out 4 years later and went to work as a mechanic. 8 years later he owns a nice home, his wife stays home to raise the two kids, and he runs the place...his hands only get dirty on weekends. The American dream is still their and obtainable, it just needs to be TAUGHT TO THE KIDS! To many adults are not leading by example.

 

[DeathGrip]

There's lots of posts pointing out the obvious problems.

That's easy. We can all do that but it ain't fixing nothing. The useful idiots have a plan even if they don't know it or realize the end results.

How about some solutions?

 

[mike from st pete]

When a government supported radio program runs articles like this

Right-Wing Domestic Terrorism Is On The Rise. Did The Warning Signs Evade Us? | On Point

On a regular basis you know you're lost.

 

[wheelgun28]

Best post in this entire thread. I would like to add that the infatuation society has with college as the be all end all is doing some kids a great disservice. There not all cut out for it. My household income is well over the stated middle class threshold, neither my wife or I have degrees. My daughter went to college, but settled on a career as a State Trooper. The education requirement? HS diploma or GED. My son celebrated his 18th birthday on Parris Island, got out 4 years later and went to work as a mechanic. 8 years later he owns a nice home, his wife stays home to raise the two kids, and he runs the place...his hands only get dirty on weekends. The American dream is still their and obtainable, it just needs to be TAUGHT TO THE KIDS! To many adults are not leading by example.

But think how much better off they'd be if the spent a few $100k and had degrees in important stuff like 19th century French literature.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Much of the decline in living standards and disposable income is due to the increasing tax bite, especially at the state and local level.
The problem with parents not helping their kids pay for college is that those same parents whine and complain the loudest when they grow old and gray and sick and those children they constantly short changed and lectured about "learning to take responsibility" now can't be bothered with them. I have heard of the rationing of health care to the elderly because the government refuses to pay market rates and insists on a deep discount. There is the rationing of health care to the elderly that occurs when hard pressed adult children refuse to waste their valuable time running Old Lazybones to the doctor or dismiss their elders health problems as the result of so much hypochondria and malingering.
And so many of our national problems are the result of undeparenting, whether it's the welfare queen using her children as "meal tickets" to quote a New Jersey judge or the parents who are using their children as a cash cow to pay for their retirement.

 

[ladder13]

Maybe get a trade instead of spending money to be taught something that has limited marketable value?

I know many people who are plumbers, electricians, etc who live very nicely. No college or college debt required.

 

[dockmurgw]

Maybe get a trade instead of spending money to be taught something that has limited marketable value?

I know many people who are plumbers, electricians, etc who live very nicely. No college or college debt required.

I took the electrician route. In the late 70's I had to apply for a slot in trade school, they didn't take anyone who wanted to go. Fail out of your chosen trade and they booted you back to High School. How things have changed.

 

[steelslaver]

The American dream.

My dad worked mostly did pretty well I think, my mom rarely did anything, but be a great home maker. We lived in an older remodeled 2 story home from the time I was in the 4th grade (1961). My brothers and Is hared a bedroom, my sisters did too. My dad finished the top floor while working full time. We had 2 bathrooms! one on each floor. We had an older Ford station wagon and an even older pickup truck. We kept a garden. We built a 2 car garage. Had a black and white tv with 3 channels. The big treat for the week was going downtown and each of us kids got a nickle ice cream cone and sit in the car and my dad would tell us the year and make of a car that went past. For a vacation we went tent camping instate for a one week fishing trip!!!! That was the American dream and it was great.

Now the dream is. Both parents working so they can have big house with each kid having their own room, 2 new cars, a boat,
an RV and a ATV. Flat screen tvs everywhere and one monster screen to watch while you don't talk to each other while eating take out food. tv. Of course you have to have cable, with Disney, HBO, Cinemax and whatever else. Kids all have their own unlimited cell phone and go to the periodontist to get braces. New bicycles all around and a real nice car for graduation. Lets not forget the vacation to Disney land or Hawaii. Oh, and the Zanac prescriptions and the therapy.

Yet, I know guys with no college who are working about 6-8 months a year and knocking down well over that $110 grand. Applied some effort, learned to become a certifiable pipe welder and go out on jobs making over $40 an hour. Working 13 12 hour shifts then a day off then another 13 for an 8 week job makes them $31,000, plus what ever they don't spend of their $125 expense money. 4 jobs a year is over $120,000. But, your going to get dirty and sweaty, maybe a few minor burns. Be good a geometry and learn how to use the tools and be a fitter for the some money and $40 bucks is the low end of the scale. Provide your own welding truck and kick it up to $80. Become a Certified welding inspector and go to about $60 and carry your tools in a clipboard. Work winters spend your summers fishing. Last year I was offered a 2 year job as new projects superintendent at a refinery in North Dakota. Work 6 weeks get a week off and a company truck to drive along with a credit card to fill it. etc. A little over $250k a year. I don't want to spend that much time away from home. I am 68, happy where and with what I have
I have a GED

I didn't get to that point with privilege or being lucky as to when I was born. I was "lucky" to be smart and having a step dad who taught me how to work hard and THINK about what I needed to do. My fore fingers are permanently twisted inwards from gripping and using heavy tools. My hands and forearms have lots of little white privilege scars.

In 2010 during the "great recession" I had a crew with lots of green card workers from Mexico, the Caribbean nations, the Philippines etc, because we could not find enough Americans who were not "lucky enough to be born during thee right time period" willing to actually work.

 

[ladder13]

The "baby boomers" just happened to be born at the right time. Lucky *******s.

 

[peterGun]

The American dream went from; All I want is the opportunity to make my way to give me what I want and let me do what I want.

The Hipster soy boys wouldn't work in a factory or mine, they want to be baristas and uber drivers they just think they should make big money doing it.

Gone are the days where self sacrifice was admired.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Onomea]

I, too, think college is not for everyone, and that it is foolish to encourage all young people to believe that it is. The tales we all hear of massive debt incurred, often by college drop outs, or by those who graduate college but who cannot find employment, should serve as cautionary tales.

But I also believe the studies that show lifetime earnings of college grads, in aggregate, far above that of high school grads, in aggregate. Research Summary: Education and Lifetime Earnings

I think this is because many, perhaps most, high school grads do not learn a specialized trade. Not sure why they don't. It seems such a no-brainer.

Was talking to my plumber, a coupla months back, while he was snaking a drain for me. I remarked that plumbing must be a good profession to be in during an economic downturn or a pandemic, because no matter what the state of the economy, everyone will always need their plumbing to work. He confirmed this, but also said that the odd thing was he could not find young people willing to learn the trade, do the work...

Part of it, part of the reason why more kids are not interested in the skilled trades, is, perhaps, that they are seen as of less social status than white collar work... But, on the other hand, in our society, generally speaking, money confers status, so hard to have status without employment... And the skilled trades make good money.

I think it a bit of a puzzle.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Hell I just found out my daddy voted democratic in the last presidential election. If he knew,he'd be rolling over in his grave.
My solution to all the politics and K'rona on the TV is the fire stick.
HIGHLY recommend Narco's Mexico and Narco's. Will be finishing up Narco's soon and then it's onto El Chapo. Bonus points in that my Spanish is getting pretty good

 

[ameridaddy]

There's a pretty rural road near me, mostly lined with the occasional 3 bdrm rancher nestled in the woods. At a big bend, the terrain opens up into two side-by-side maybe 5-8 acre front lawns, beautifully landscaped, 500 yards of paved driveways, leading to two huuge Georgian brick mansions, with all kinds of brick garages and other outbuildings. I've occasionally chatted with the owners; one is a retired plumber, the other a retired electrician. They started as apprentices, worked up to master, started their own companies, built them up, made a great income, then sold them for a pretty penny when they retired.
High school and trade school grads, living the American dream.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Also a big part of the American Dream was those much sneered at "family values", with its clearly defined role models-the husband went to work, the wife was a homemaker, the kids went to school to learn, not to be raised, if there was a live-in grandparent it was understood that unless they had some serious health problem they were to help out, perhaps be there when the kids came home from school so the mother could go back to work, earn extra income. Parents were expected to help their kids pay for college, as much as they could, it used to be putting a kid through through college was a point of pride in many families, today.....?
The phrase I have heard is "40 year ago, blue collar and middle class, today blue collar and lower class ", and the phrase "white collar and lower class" describes a lot of people.

 

[Dave_n]

Best post in this entire thread. I would like to add that the infatuation society has with college as the be all end all is doing some kids a great disservice. There not all cut out for it. My household income is well over the stated middle class threshold, neither my wife or I have degrees. My daughter went to college, but settled on a career as a State Trooper. The education requirement? HS diploma or GED. My son celebrated his 18th birthday on Parris Island, got out 4 years later and went to work as a mechanic. 8 years later he owns a nice home, his wife stays home to raise the two kids, and he runs the place...his hands only get dirty on weekends. The American dream is still their and obtainable, it just needs to be TAUGHT TO THE KIDS! To many adults are not leading by example.

Could not agree more, though I did my training in the UK. Lab rat from 17 to 20 but ended up with an "external BSc", with no debt (effectively this was an apprenticeship). Then an MSc also no debt though full time impecunious student for 2 years. A few more years in industry and then a PhD in biological chemistry in 22 months (due to extensive prior experience in labs), again, no debt. My earlier "lab rat" training stood me in very good stead when ever I had to fix anything (UK or in the US), as I knew how to perform electrical work, weld, use cameras quite successfully, and most importantly learned how to write coherent sentences and scientific papers. Dave_n

 

[loknload]

Every opportunity I get I preach the trades to the younger crowd. Our area has three very successful Vocational Tech schools and in recent times their classes have always been filled.
I graduated with a trade and through my whole working career I was never unemployed and had some very high paying positions! But if all else fail I could always fall back on my trade!
And that is what I preach to the youngsters