Thoughts on the Ammo Situation

[Majorlk]

I believe demand will be strong for some time to come. Starting next year, there will be millions of NY gun owners forced by law to only purchase ammo face to face from state registered sellers. Background check on the buyer will be required.

As of later this year, a permit (with standard NICS background check) will be required to purchase ammo here in Connecticut. Magazines, too. Right now there is a 62k backlog for carry permits here.

 

[Four T5]

As of later this year, a permit (with standard NICS background check) will be required to purchase ammo here in Connecticut. Magazines, too. Right now there is a 62k backlog for carry permits here.

It's no big deal, it's only a matter of time before stupid people make up the majority of voters in the entire nation... not just the north east.

 

[Majorlk]

It's no big deal, it's only a matter of time before stupid people make up the majority of voters in the entire nation... not just the north east.

All too true!

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

there will be millions of NY gun owners forced by law to only purchase ammo face to face. What will be the magic number that puts you over the limit and then placed on some type of terrorist watch list? I don't know, but the Governor mentioned 6k on his website a couple months ago.

i think after a few months, they will realize that 90% of all gun owners will be on that list, they will simply either ignore that list or raise the threshold.

 

[WA101]

I popped into my local gun shop last Saturday to check out a few accessory items, and I was surprised to see the ammo shelves were literally overflowing in all calibers, including 9mm and 22. They even had 1000-round cases of 40 and I believe 45 stacked up on the floor for sale. The gun shop was still limiting 9mm and 22 purchases to two 50-round boxes per customer per day, but there no longer were restrictions on anything else. 9mm was priced at $16.99 for 50-rounds, 40 was going for $20.99, and 22LR was $5.99 for 50-rounds.

I've got to believe the ammo shortage is starting to ease.

 

[germansheperd]

Y'all could have bought all the bulk pack .22 you wanted at $150/case last year. You didn't. You spent your money on other stuff because you figured you could stop by Walmart to buy a brick whenever you wanted. You figured wrong.

That you are running around like a chicken with its head cut off looking for ammo is not due to a moral failure of others.

That's about the smartest damn thing I've read on any any type of firearms forum in months!
Truth hurts some peeps I suppose.

 

[ouchez]

"They hate us for our freedom"

i think after a few months, they will realize that 90% of all gun owners will be on that list, they will simply either ignore that list or raise the threshold.

I am not talking about the terrorist's, who ever and whatever they may be, but our own government, and it is high time to tell them to go to hell, because they have every intention of flushing the 2nd down the toilet like a piece of Sh##.

It has recently been reported from a study that most people will live with tyranny as long as it does not disrupt their comfort zone too much. The NY Gov. is a tyrant as is Bloomberg.

Ouchez

 

[Ammobob]

If you decided you wanted to sell it, would you sell it for what you paid or slightly over, or would you ask market value?

I would ask a value equal to the time, upgrades, resources and improvements if any I have made to my property. I would not ask for 3x or 4x or 5x what properties of equal standing were being sold for.

I see where you are going but it doesn't work for the ammo situation, as there are clearly people selling it at their normal markup, their normal value, regardless of the current "crisis". And then there are people asking 10x as much for a product of equal cost and value. Which causes unscrupulous types to jump on the band wagon and figure if so and so can take advantage of people's fear or need and get away with charging so ridiculous a price, then I can too. Greed. And then after awhile the overinflated greed price becomes the new "normal".

Some people are trying to insinuate that I have a problem with profit. I do not. I do have a problem with people taking advantage of a situation to engage in what would at other times be decried as unfair or unethical business practices, and jacking up the price of something to outrageous levels just because they can.

 

[Ammobob]

Here's the "question". As I illustrated earlier.... Would you prefer that Benton Shooters had no ammo in stock like others? I answered No. You?

I would rather they had some integrity and sell at their normal price, making a profit that was good enough a few months ago, (barring their actual price to buy it going up) and perhaps enforce a box limit like others have done, continue to do so, and continue to have and sell a healthy supply of ammo. But I'm old fashioned I guess...

 

[Bkreutz]

I popped into my local gun shop last Saturday to check out a few accessory items, and I was surprised to see the ammo shelves were literally overflowing in all calibers, including 9mm and 22. They even had 1000-round cases of 40 and I believe 45 stacked up on the floor for sale. The gun shop was still limiting 9mm and 22 purchases to two 50-round boxes per customer per day, but there no longer were restrictions on anything else. 9mm was priced at $16.99 for 50-rounds, 40 was going for $20.99, and 22LR was $5.99 for 50-rounds.

I've got to believe the ammo shortage is starting to ease.

And this was where?

 

[Ammobob]

Are you sure?

These sellers used to get in a semi-load every time they called the warehouse. They could sell ammo at a 25% mark-up and keep the lights on.

NOW they can't get squat from the warehouse.

So how do you expect a store that sold $30,000 worth of ammo a month to keep from going under when all they can get now is a measly case every other week?

THAT'S what is driving the price up. The demand has far outstripped supply and people can't get what they want.

There are two ways out of this, and lowering prices is NOT one of them.

We can either flood the market with product and drive prices down, or we have to wait until everyone has all the ammo they want. .

Yes, maybe they do have to raise the price a little to combat less stock being sold. But they do not have to triple or quadruple their prices to keep the lights on. (I assume they sell many other things besides ammo) And there is a downside to putting your prices too high. What if the prices are so high that they can't even sell what diminished product they do get? Or, insult so many loyal customers that they face and overall reduction in product sold even after things return to normal? Because I know I will not do business with certain people in the future do to obvious overpricing, and I know many others are saying the same thing, so how is that helping anyone? Better to make a little a little at a time and ensure continued business than make a boatload all at once and destroy your customer base. That's business 101.

 

[Ammobob]

Ah, I understand now. Anyone who doesn't agree with you should not post. Why didn't you say that up front?

That's not what I said or meant and you know it. I was referring to the folks who have nothing better to contribute to the conversation than "this is dumb" or "this is pointless" or whatever. If you think it is beneath you to engage in the discussion, or that it is stupid or pointless, why do it? Saves time for people that actually have something relevant to contribute. (and I wasn't saying that to you, as you weren't the one that said such things)

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

I have no problem with businesses making all the profit that they want, on a normal day (it just pisses me off when its at a time of need, like now).
Nor do i have a problem with businesses shooting themselves in their foot by poor businesses practices & ethics.

I am simply noting which businesses do what, and will remember once stocks resolve and prices come back down. i will make sure to ignore those sites; and to spread the word.

sellers be ware - people are watching how you conduct yourselves.

 

[Ammobob]

1- that post was directed at the person I was quoting.

2 - Again, you only want posts from people who agree with you? Fat chance, fella.

As I said, I wasn't referring to not posting differing opinions and I think you know that. Perhaps my words could have been chosen better in retrospect. I was referring to the needlessness or senselessness of posts such as "pointless" and that's it, or the like. If that's all you want to say, and that's really what you think, why waste your time and mine? That used to be considered trolling....

And as stated earlier, I wasn't referring to you.

 

[Ammobob]

To clarify a few things:

For me this has always been about what I consider to be poor ethics and business practices, and the willingness of some to take advantage of others at the slightest opportunity. I see a general degradation of the morals, ethics, and basic sense of civility and manners that I was raised on.

Some people seem to be stating that things like capitalism have or should have no limits. I disagree. While I fought for the right of people to engage in capitalism if they choose, and believe in my heart that it is the greatest system in the world, I do believe it, like everything else, has limits, and the potential to be misused, or be "bad", depending on the people using said system.

The same thing goes for any system, idea, right, or privilege we have in place, bar none. Let's take freedoms for example: We have freedom of speech. We believe you should be able to say anything you want. But there are limits imposed on that freedom. Those limits are based on the consensus of the people who live under the system. We have freedom of speech, but yet we cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. Why? Isn't that encroaching on my freedom? Yes, but it is a necessary limitation.

Freedom of religion, great thing. Should be unlimited, but isn't. There are limits to my freedom to express my religion. (and more coming every day) The words say I have freedom of religion, but we all know it's only freedom up to a certain point.

Even freedom itself is not unlimited. We have the most freedom of any other place on earth, however, we do not have complete freedom. Why? Because like with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, (and the freedom to do business, capitalism) there are things that are considered unethical, immoral, or just plain not allowed.

So, when people say you should be allowed to make whatever you want in a free market, that's only true to a certain extent. That extent is based on what the majority of people participating in the free market find ethical.

We love freedom of speech, but find it appalling when someone uses that freedom to for instance, disrespect and disrupt a military funeral. We find that unethical, so we limit their right to do so.

We love freedom of religion, yet we find it appalling that some people might want to kill humans for religious purposes. We find that unethical, so we limit their right to do so.

Freedom period. We love and fight and die for freedom, yet what if my freedom means I should be allowed to rape or kill? Should I be free to do that? No. We find that unacceptable, unethical, so we limit the persons right to do that.

There are imposed limits on everything we do, and on every right we have, yet some people think there should not be one regarding capitalism? Really? There is no limit to the amount of money you should be able to make I agree, but what about the methods you use to make it? We know that isn't true, because there are already laws that limit that right when it comes to methods of making profit we find unethical.

So, in short I believe in freedom. I believe in capitalism. I also believe there are examples of those things that are unacceptable and unethical. I consider the WAY some of these people are abusing the system to make money unethical, and I know many other people do too, or there wouldn't be so much heat over it.

I in general oppose governmental meddling. I oppose a majority of the things they would do to limit my freedoms, however, I realize that some limits MUST exist, however distasteful. I find it fascinating and more than a little disturbing, that as people's personal morals and ethics continue to erode, they tend to allow greater restraints to be placed on their freedom, while at the same time, allowing things to occur without complaint, seeing no wrong in things, that never would have even been considered ethical in the past.

So it's not so much the amount of money a person wants to make, sky's the limit, but HOW they choose to make it that I find unethical. I think many, many businesses when this is all over, and it will be just like the last time, will find themselves in a bad place, where their greed and unethical pricing has caused people to take note of them, and refuse to do business with them in the future. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that some find it actually good business to rip people off.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I see where you are going but it doesn't work for the ammo situation, as there are clearly people selling it at their normal markup, their normal value, regardless of the current "crisis".

Then that is what people need to buy. As much ammo as I have, this year I still have bought some more paying way less than .10.

And then there are people asking 10x as much for a product of equal cost and value.

As I have said, if someone is willing to pay that, then God bless them. That doesn't mean I would ever do so, but they are obviously providing a service needed by some. Either that or we really have a lot of stupid consumers out there. Keep in mind, for the most part, our shooting here is just sport... adults playing. Point is, someone paying .20 per round is still not that much money, in the whole scheme of things. I have the time & patience to wait for the good buys but others don't. So so what if they order a case on gunbroker for .20 each. They haven't wasted any time & probably spend more on beer each weekend than their ammo anyway.

 

[Dezfan]

I would ask a value equal to the time, upgrades, resources and improvements if any I have made to my property. I would not ask for 3x or 4x or 5x what properties of equal standing were being sold for.

I see where you are going but it doesn't work for the ammo situation, as there are clearly people selling it at their normal markup, their normal value, regardless of the current "crisis". And then there are people asking 10x as much for a product of equal cost and value. Which causes unscrupulous types to jump on the band wagon and figure if so and so can take advantage of people's fear or need and get away with charging so ridiculous a price, then I can too. Greed. And then after awhile the overinflated greed price becomes the new "normal".

Some people are trying to insinuate that I have a problem with profit. I do not. I do have a problem with people taking advantage of a situation to engage in what would at other times be decried as unfair or unethical business practices, and jacking up the price of something to outrageous levels just because they can.

In other words, you would sell your home for market value.

Now what if Disney decided they wanted to buy up all the land around you to open a new theme park?

Wouldn't that have an impact on the value of your home?

Are you still going to sell it the previous price?

Absolutly not! This would be a major disturbance in the market, that distrubance would have an major impact on the value of your home and you would have every right to benefit from it.

Ammo is no different.

There has been a major disturbance to the market and it has had an impact on the market price plain and simple.

Those caught unprepared are now at the mercy of the market.

This is where having a large cashe of ammo allows us the ability to ride out these kinds of disturbances.

It's built in price protection that insulates us from these kinds of fluctuations in the market.

 

[Ammobob]

Then that is what people need to buy. As much ammo as I have, this year I still have bought some more paying way less than .10.


As I have said, if someone is willing to pay that, then God bless them. That doesn't mean I would ever do so, but they are obviously providing a service needed by some. Either that or we really have a lot of stupid consumers out there. Keep in mind, for the most part, our shooting here is just sport... adults playing. Point is, someone paying .20 per round is still not that much money, in the whole scheme of things. I have the time & patience to wait for the good buys but others don't. So so what if they order a case on gunbroker for .20 each. They haven't wasted any time & probably spend more on beer each weekend than their ammo anyway.

I agree with everything you just said. However, the fact that there are people out there taking advantage of this situation to charge $1.00 a round for .22lr really angers me. Not because I have to buy it, because I don't. But think of all the people who will be turned off shooting sports or guns all together, and their reputation of "gun people" be tarnished forever because of the ridiculous greed of a few. (and more jumping on daily)

THAT is what angers me about it all. That and the fact that people don't see the wrong in it.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

So, in short I believe in freedom. I believe in capitalism.

But only if others play by your rules & your guidelines. To me, ethics has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism or the free market economy. You are confusing moral issues with financial ones. I think Exxon makes too much profit and wish I could pay less for gas, however I don't think that makes them unethical when their job is to make a profit for themselves & their shareholders. A WWII vet that purchased a house for $20,000 back then & now sells it for $250,000 is not evil or bad or unethical. They are just reaping the rewards of a free market.

I think nowadays we have too many folks meddling in our private affairs. Mostly, this is the government but as we have seen here, even individuals wish to do so. I don't need anyone else judging me. I don't need anyone telling me I have enough guns. I don't need anyone telling me how much ammo I can keep. I sure don't want anyone setting arbitrary values on what is enough or what costs enough. The free market will set those values.

 

[Ammobob]

... Ammo is no different...There has been a major disturbance to the market and it has had an impact on the market price plain and simple.

But the impact on the market has not been significant enough to warrant $500 for a brick of .22 shells. The fact that every single competitor out there is not charging that price means that those that are are not doing it because the market demands it, or because they have to, they are doing it out of sheer greed. Because they WANT to. There's a big difference there and I think you know that.