Thoughts on the Ammo Situation

[WA101]

And this was where?

West Coast Armory

Check out the "Specials"

 

[RedNeck Jim]

But the impact on the market has not been significant enough to warrant $500 for a brick of .22 shells.

Do what? I can go on gunbroker right now & get CCI Standard Velocity for $300 for 2000 rounds... with no wait & no auction. What you are saying is $1 per round & if anyone pays that, then they get what they deserve. But that is nowhere near the normal going price for even high priced ammo.

Keep this discussion real.

 

[Ammobob]

But only if others play by your rules & your guidelines. To me, ethics has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism or the free market economy. You are confusing moral issues with financial ones. I think Exxon makes too much profit and wish I could pay less for gas, however I don't think that makes them unethical when their job is to make a profit for themselves & their shareholders. A WWII vet that purchased a house for $20,000 back then & now sells it for $250,000 is not evil or bad or unethical. They are just reaping the rewards of a free market.

I think nowadays we have too many folks meddling in our private affairs. Mostly, this is the government but as we have seen here, even individuals wish to do so. I don't need anyone else judging me. I don't need anyone telling me I have enough guns. I don't need anyone telling me how much ammo I can keep. I sure don't want anyone setting arbitrary values on what is enough or what costs enough. The free market will set those values.

So there is no such thing as an unethical way to make profit? That seems to be what you are saying. I think we agree on nearly everything except for the fact that I believe there are ways of making money that are wrong, unethical, and you seem not to think so?

I'm really not trying to be disrespectful to anyone, but I do believe that yes, there should be certain things that are simply not allowed. As distasteful as even I find that thought, it's still true. Do I get to decide those things? Only for me. I don't have a right to set them for you, unless they affect me. As was said, the right to freely swing your fist end's at my nose.

 

[Ammobob]

Do what? I can go on gunbroker right now & get CCI Standard Velocity for $300 for 2000 rounds... with no wait & no auction. What you are saying is $1 per round & if anyone pays that, then they get what they deserve. But that is nowhere near the normal going price for even high priced ammo.

Keep this discussion real.

Not now, but it certainly was in the beginning.

 

[Dezfan]

But the impact on the market has not been significant enough to warrant $500 for a brick of .22 shells. The fact that every single competitor out there is not charging that price means that those that are are not doing it because the market demands it, or because they have to, they are doing it out of sheer greed. Because they WANT to. There's a big difference there and I think you know that.

I won't say that there is no gouging going on as there is.

I haven't seen a $500.00 brick of 22LR. To be honest, if I did see it and saw that people were willing to pay it, I would have to liquidate some of my cashe.

However, the $50.00 brick of 22LR is definitely market driven and I don't have an issue with those selling it at that price under these conditions.

 

[AMS417]

....keeping in mind most of the auctions on GB start at $0.01. The buyers are running up the price in most cases. Supply and demand, plain and simple. This to shall pass.

 

[Bkreutz]

West Coast Armory

Check out the "Specials"

I go to WCA (North) Range 4-5 times a week, I keep forgetting about the other 2 across the lake. Even though they have the same name, they don't stock the same stuff. Have to make a trip over and see what they have.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

$100 a brick of .22?! Holy ****. Where is that store. I'd like to sell them some snake oil.

 

[stlr_dude]

Pointless....

But entertaining!

 

[RedNeck Jim]

So there is no such thing as an unethical way to make profit? That seems to be what you are saying. I think we agree on nearly everything except for the fact that I believe there are ways of making money that are wrong, unethical, and you seem not to think so?

Yes, that is what I believe. However there are illegal ways of making a profit, which involves ethics... such as using child labor, unsafe factory construction, failure to pay proper wages, purchase of blood diamonds, etc.

The problem with ethics is they are often subjective. You state too much profit, or raising the price too much is unethical. That sounds nice & on a personal level, I agree. However when going beyond the personal level, when dealing with a product on a national level, who gets to decide what is too much? You have yet to answer that. I don't want to be that person & sure don't want anyone else trying to do so... especially the government. That has to be a personal choice and everyone's situation is different. I personally think .10 is too much to pay for 22lr. Someone who is just getting started or someone who works longer hours or makes more money than me may say .20 is too much. So to me, selling ammo at whatever price has absolutely nothing to do with ethics. No one is having to make a choice between feeding their family & buying .20 ammo. The free market will reward those that serve a need & punish those that don't.

I am a firm believer in freedom. Freedom to make as much money as you can. Freedom to pay too much for a nonessential commodity. Freedom to be smarter than others. Freedom to be dumber than most. Freedom to make a personal decision without being judged by someone who doesn't understand my own personal needs or desires. Freedom to succeed & freedom to fail. I believe in personal responsibility.

 

[Gyrene6891]

A person cannot be taken advantage of unles he/she wants to taken advantage of. If everyone believes the price is too high then do not buy. If I have stockpiled thousands of rounds to try and make money, because of the panic that politics creates, but nobody is buying then I must reduce the price or eat the darn stuff. I do not drive around anywhere looking for ammo. When I go to the LGS or Big Box and they have ammo at a price I will pay I buy some, assuming my retirement check has been deposited. If they don't have it or the check is not in my account, then I do not buy.

I have no problem with anyone making money because they had the foresight or the where with all to be able to do so. I do, however, get to choose whether or not they make money on me.

 

[roadkill45]

funny my LGS has 9mm, 40, 45 and all the other common flavors in stock and is getting pallets of 5.56 from PMC and Wolf. all of the HD calibers are in stock also.
he has not raised his prices at all on any handgun ammo and 5.56 bulk is not much higher than his normal retail. he refuses to jack up the prices. he has upped the cost of his AR's, has to but he must have 30 new 15-22's, GSG's and Mossys on the rack and a whole glass display case of new Glocks.
no .22 ammo though at all. i know that is what everyone is looking for, but it is not to be found in town. all else is easy to buy.

 

[LimaCharlie]

People complain about the current profit in ammo and Exon's profits and then they go buy an Apple I-phone with profit margins that are much higher than either hated example.

I feel bad for people just getting into shooting sports in the last few months with their first gun. If you have owned guns for more that a year, shut up and quit whining! You should have a little more situational awareness.


Situational awareness:

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

People complain about the current profit in ammo and Exon's profits and then they go buy an Apple I-phone with profit margins that are much higher than either hated example.

what you are missing is that iphones were always expensive. there is no reason to hate apple or iphone or exxon or anyone if they are selling at high prices all the time.
BUT IF tomorrow there is a shortage of iphones, or fuel, or anything - and the companies & resellers are raising prices to such degree's as ammo sellers lately = then thats just pure POOR BUSINESS PRACTICES.

 

[Lost Lake]

Read this post real slow and think about it.

Nobody has ever sold anything ----- at a price that was more than what the seller was willing to pay.

Ever.

Buyers set the price.

Not sellers.

Better read that again and again and again until you understand it.

Buyers determine what a product is worth.



Now, I just had 1500 rounds of .22LR in my Cabelas cart for $74 and cancelled the order. Why?

I think it is too much money. I think the prices are coming down. I have enough on hand to wait.

So did Cabelas tell me how much I was going to pay for .22 ammo today?

I guess they didn't.

I'm the buyer. I decide what the price is.

 

[LimaCharlie]

what you are missing is that iphones were always expensive. there is no reason to hate apple or iphone or exxon or anyone if they are selling at high prices all the time.
BUT IF tomorrow there is a shortage of iphones, or fuel, or anything - and the companies & resellers are raising prices to such degree's as ammo sellers lately = then thats just pure POOR BUSINESS PRACTICES.

So it is OK for Apple to rape you all of the time, but poor business practice for other companies to rape you during commodity shortages that they don't control?

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

Buyers set the price.

Not sellers.

not quite.

as soon as the sandy hook school shooting happened, the following day around lunch people started to order stuff (i was one of them). within hours, the prices starting climbing up because the SELLERS wanted to raise the prices, as demand rose. yes i understand supply & demand. but the sellers didnt have to raise the prices as stocks began to deplete. they could have left the prices as they were - since it was good enough the day before the sandy hook shooting.

the only time buyers control the prices, is when they refuse to pay the exuberant prices. but that means the sellers had to change the prices FIRST. so in realty, the sellers control the prices as much as the buyers.

if your theory was correct, that buyers set the price not the sellers: then the state & local officials would be prosecuting those who are buying over-priced fuel, during a hurricane/crisis situation.
but since state & local officials are fining & suing THE SELLERS(companies) - your theory isnt adding up. heck NJ even fined and is suing private parties who re-sold over priced generators during hurricane sandy.

 

[sonjason]

Maybe I am just lucky, but ammo is available if you look. Since January of this year when I bought my 15-22 and got my wife into shooting, I have bought 30K plus rounds of 22LR at RETAIL prices. Of that, the most I paid was $42 shipped for 4 bricks of CCI SV, but 98% of it has come from Wal-Mart thanks to the mobile app...

Of this 30K rounds, I have shot a LOT of it, sold a lot of it at my cost to friends/family/fellow forum members here and on my local forum, and I have no regrets nor do I feel like I am "hoarding". I did sell a few boxes here and there and made a little profit, but I can guarantee you that my price was way better than the rest of the market and the person buying from me couldn't meet up fast enough to get it and absolutely felt great about the transaction. At the end of the day I kept it out of another gunbroker auction, and used it in a way that makes me feel just fine. Down the barrel of my gun or a friend/family member gun, or to others to use for training children/wife/girlfriend, and for Boy Scout troop shoots. All good places for it to be used in my eyes.

At the end of the day, the ammo is out there. Because of threads like these and "in stock" threads, the perceived "shortage" has carried on longer than expected and put people in a 22LR buying frenzy. For me, I buy it when I see it as available in my local Wal-Mart or a reputable online dealer that doesn't charge ridiculous surcharges/shipping. I never stand in line more than 10 minutes at WM and refuse to pay more than 4-6 cents per round depending on brand. I have a full time job that I drive 50 miles one way to get to, and 2 kids and I also coach soccer. I don't have time to BS around and don't plan to do that just to get 22LR.

Free market/gouging/whining/hoarding whatever you want to call it... get off your butts and go find some ammo. If you can't find it for a legitimate price (4-8 cents depending on brand), don't buy it. I am fairly certain that 100% of folks on this board aren't using 22LR ammo as a staple item in their life or to survive on a daily basis, so just do without for now and don't buy it at these freaking inflated prices! As soon as everyone gets wise enough to do that, this situation goes away and the stores have ammo on the shelf again.

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

So it is OK for Apple to rape you all of the time, but poor business practice for other companies to rape you during commodity shortages that they don't control?

selling something at a high price is every businesses right. its my right not to buy it.

but raising prices 5, 6, 7 times simply because of a nation shortage is immoral. and we are not talking about raping for cellphones & chrome rims. we are talking peoples' safety/security/hunting(food).

 

[LimaCharlie]

After twenty-two years in the military, I really hate waiting in lines for anything.

Since the gas shortages in the 1970s, I fill my vehicle gas tank when it gets down to a half tank.

Johnny Carson made a joke during a monologue in the 1970s that the next shortage would be toilet paper. For weeks, you could not find a roll of toilet paper in stores. That is all it takes for panic buying to start.

Since the ammo and gun shortages when Bill Clinton won the election in 1992 and the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, I buy two boxes of ammo and shoot one.

I haven't bought any .22 ammo in over a year. I have bought center-fire ammo that I wanted, but did not really need, for pre-panic prices or less in the last few months.

I wonder if the whiners will learn anything from the current shortages.

I went by the local big box store as it opened after they received an ammo shipment. There were around 150 people in line to buy one brick of rimfire or three boxes of center-fire. I thought to myself that I wouldn't stand in that line for a free night of crazy monkey sex with Miss America let alone for a few rounds of ammo.