Thoughts on the Ammo Situation

[pershing]

I dont know if its just me, but I feel like a lot of people are feeling offended or attacked by Ammobob's post. The way I read it did not seem to be attacking people for buying a lot of ammo. I think he was more ticked about the nasty business of buying over fellow shooters to make an obscene markup. And I see his point of view. Granted we live in a free country which allows for a lot of shady "legal" business strategies. I for one am looking for .22 ammo, but not just any that come along, looking for my brand and right price. Am I mad someone beats me to walmart every day, no, am I mad its someone who has no intention of using it only to make not a quick buck but 100 times that, a little bit. My hope is that one day there will be so many trucks of ammo going to distribution that will flood the market and have all those scalpers loose tons of cash. It would help if people dont buy at high prices, but if you got the cash and dont want to wait that is your business. For those of you looking for ammo, patience is key, I did not touch .22 ammo until after 4 months of looking. For those of you buying to build your castle of bricks at home, keep buying if you wish. At least invite me to your home range to shoot some . For those of you selling at 1000% retail, legal, but shame on you . This is just my opinion, just like the 2 pages before me. Lets just stop the name calling because you dont agree with other people. Happy shooting, if no ammo, then happy dry fire practice .

 

[Blades]

I find some of these posts a little strange on a board where I'm pretty sure 99% of the members make above an average income.

If things are that bad sell your $500 10-22 go buy a Mossberg take the difference and buy some shells.

 

[nachogrande]

simple economics imo as long as it remains profitable it will continue. when it is not, it will stop. the American way, like it or not.

 

[nomobux]

These discussions need to be in the lounge. It's been said many, many times before. This is a 15-22 thread. It's getting old.

 

[fire4606]

So you had "enough" and you passed on 22LR. Now you're short on 22LR and refer to those who are prepared as "hoarders"?

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I too shoot weekly. Knowing this, I continue to purchase ammo to supplement and offset what I shoot.

Guess what that leads to? Not getting caught short.

So feel free to act sanctimonious and offended.

I'll continue to prepare for situations like this, I'll take responsibility for myself and my family's needs, and I'll continue to shoot to my hearts content without having to fear running short or having to whine and complain about being taken advantage of.

Read post 71 above by major, it's exactly what i'm talking about, he states he has a few k rounds of 22 and all his other calibers also..

Ok.. again .. great and an easy stockpile if you're just going to hoard or sit on it.. a month to month and a half supply for a shooter like me... a two week supply for someone that really shoots allot, feel bad for the cometition shooters out there that don't have an ammo sponsor, you know the ones just starting out or not quite peaked yet.

I've shot over 800 rounds of 9mm alone in May of this year, I have 4 calibers 22, 9, 45, 223/5.56

"sanctimonious and offended" about what??? sour grapes about what?? To what are you referring..?

I picked up 2 bulk packs of 22lr today, if i shoot my normal amount that's maybe 2 weeks worth.

I know ammo came in at Walmart and Sportsman's this week, i know because it's all relisted on Gunlistings.org armslist and both of the facebook iowa guns and ammo groups i'm a member of.

Again the point being, if you shoot little, or not at all it's easy to be covered for situations like this.

"sanctimonious" is exactly whom i'm talking about, you know the ones talking to people like me who have been shooting for 30 yrs like i'm a 12 yr old and should learn a lesson from this. What lesson would that be that i should stockpile 25k of every caliber I own so that i can continue to shoot through a POSSIBLE unforseen future shortage??

If i could afford to do that or wanted to i could pay the prices that are going on gunlistings right now and not worry about it.

I guess i'm just a gulf war vet, ex state trooper, professional firefighter that doesn't take responsibility for myself or my family.....nice

 

[Ammobob]

Well, if we lived in North Korea, profiteering would be a bad thing... unless you were connected to the leadership. However, is that not the point of capitalism? Why is it now a bad thing? You think Ford, Gates, Rockefeller, Hearst, etc., etc. didn't get rich by profiteering? What about the gas you buy? You seen Exxon's profits?

Of course I don't want to pay so much for gas, ammo, or for my car or for some software, but if the market will bear it, God bless them & God bless capitalism.

None of my posts were anything about whining, or hatred of capitalism, or any of the other various phrases that have been thrown around by those too lazy to read, or those with reading comprehension issues. My issue was with the ethics simple and period. I have no problem with making money. I simply see that in my opinion there are times when money comes before ethics and that is never good to me.

A real world example. I work with a lot of overseas relief efforts when natural disasters and such strike and people get devastated. There are those who donate time and supplies to get people on their feet, and then there are those who charge average price for the same items. Then there are those who will do things like sell bottles of water to people who are destitute for $5.00 a bottle. There are those who will take anything someone has for a little gas or a blanket. "Say, you came through the situation with that nice gold watch or diamond wedding band you say? And you say you need a few gallons of fuel, and two $20 surplus blankets? But you have no cash? That's a real problem, that watch or that ring aught to cover it nicely...."

And then there are those who will buy up or stand in line, or make multiple efforts to take the free supplies, or the reasonably priced ones, take a majority of the available stock and set up their own stand 2 blocks away and make excessive profit from it.

Now I know it is not a perfect example, but one where I have seen the bad side of things, and people will hide behind, "oh it's just capitalism!"

Capitalism is the greatest system on earth, but it can't be used as an excuse to cover up unethical behavior. (and yes there are people that do the same with food and water, but I used non essential examples as ammo is non essential as well)

So stop the you're whining, or you don't like capitalism, or whatever posts please. You all tell me there is NOTHING in any of what is going on that you don't consider unethical?

I consider GUN SHOPS selling a brick of .22 ammo for $150 unethical. I consider GUN SHOPS buying normal prices at walmart and putting their sticker over it for $80-$150 unethical. The guys doing that are dirtbags plain and simple in my opinion.

But do I blame anyone that my son can't shoot the new rifle he got for his birthday? No, my fault for not stocking .22 ammo. As I said, if you read, it has always been trying to wrap my head around the ethics of gun guys sticking it to gun guys.

 

[TYSTYX]

This thread is so pointless that it's, well, pointless. Just think of all the ammo you've lost out on while contributing to this thread.

 

[Dezfan]

Read post 71 above by major, it's exactly what i'm talking about, he states he has a few k rounds of 22 and all his other calibers also..

Ok.. again .. great and an easy stockpile if you're just going to hoard or sit on it.. a month to month and a half supply for a shooter like me... a two week supply for someone that really shoots allot, feel bad for the cometition shooters out there that don't have an ammo sponsor, you know the ones just starting out or not quite peaked yet.

I've shot over 800 rounds of 9mm alone in May of this year, I have 4 calibers 22, 9, 45, 223/5.56

"sanctimonious and offended" about what??? sour grapes about what?? To what are you referring..?

I picked up 2 bulk packs of 22lr today, if i shoot my normal amount that's maybe 2 weeks worth.

I know ammo came in at Walmart and Sportsman's this week, i know because it's all relisted on Gunlistings.org armslist and both of the facebook iowa guns and ammo groups i'm a member of.

Again the point being, if you shoot little, or not at all it's easy to be covered for situations like this.

"sanctimonious" is exactly whom i'm talking about, you know the ones talking to people like me who have been shooting for 30 yrs like i'm a 12 yr old and should learn a lesson from this. What lesson would that be that i should stockpile 25k of every caliber I own so that i can continue to shoot through a POSSIBLE unforseen future shortage??

If i could afford to do that or wanted to i could pay the prices that are going on gunlistings right now and not worry about it.

I guess i'm just a gulf war vet, ex state trooper, professional firefighter that doesn't take responsibility for myself or my family.....nice

I've read it, liked it, and agree with it.

As I stated, I shoot regularly.

My cashe is well in excess of a few thousand rounds and as I stated, I continue to purchase ammo to offset and replace what I shoot. I haven't paid more than .04 - .05 a round for the vast majority of my stock with the exception of some CCI which averages .06 - .07 around.

By doing so, I can continue to shoot as I please and still have a cushion to fall back on if my ability to acquire ammo was to be interrupted.

I do feel bad for those who failed to prepare for the current situation and are now reduced to having to turn to the secondary market for their needs. Hence the comment to learn from this and be prepared for the next event.

I'm referring to your seemingly taking offense to those who have prepared for situations like this by calling them "hoarders".

You act as though we are to blame for the lack of ammo or the high prices when in truth it's those who failed to prepare and are purchasing on the secondary market that is driving this.

By paying the insanely high prices, it encourages the flippers to continue to buy everything in sight so that they can flip it and make those obscene profits you keep referring to.

Again, you can place blame, whine, and complain about the situation or accept the fact that it's no ones responcibilty but your own to make sure you can continue to partake in the pastime of your choosing.

I'm not rich, far from it. I'm a normal hard working guy married to a disabled Air Force Vet. I like many others here make ammo purchases a priority and work ammo purchases into our budget every month.

Sometimes you have to make a decision and sacrifices have to be made. I have cut back a bit on my time at the range. I limited the number of rounds I shoot. I stagger the caliber I use from one trip to another.

To help increase my purchasing power, I've given up expensive coffee and sports drinks so I can add that money to my ammo budget. It sucks, but it's a choice I've made.

Do what you have to do. Get creative!

I sold the vast majority of my RC car collection to finance many of the purchases I have made. I've narrowed to number of calibers I choose to shoot to make it easier to buy larger quantities of the ones I kept. I have bartered services for ammo, I have traded electronics and other items I own for ammo.

Again, if you are as avid a shooter as you state, then you need to prioritize your finances, take inventory of your belongings, determine what you would be willing to part with and make the neccassary ajustments in your finances to be able to continue to partake in it.

Thank you for your service, it is appreciated.

 

[jagular]

I agree with the basis of your post AB but everyone has different views of what's ethical. That's why there are so many viewpoints on the matter. Under the general idea of capitalism people have the right to do as they please in regards to supply and demand. You understand that, however, just because someone can doesn't mean they should. That's where morality comes into play and unfortunately we are seeing that the opportunity to make a quick buck supersede ones general good will.

 

[sonjason]

In my 5 months on this board, this may be the most ridiculous thread yet.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I consider GUN SHOPS selling a brick of .22 ammo for $150 unethical.

I don't.

Around here a guy can drive around to Walmart, Dick's Sporting Goods, Academy, Sportsmans Warehouse... and find very reasonable price stickers on empty shelves. Or, a guy can go to Benton Shooters and find VERY high price stickers on stocked shelves. Benton Shooters is providing a service that others are not. Benton Shooters could lower their prices to $20/brick and be out of ammo in five minutes. So then there would be no one with in stock ammo. That would be great, eh? No.

 

[Pointshoot]

Well, personally I think these threads are useful because they give guys a place to vent a bit over a situation that none of us like.
Some say the cause of the panic is 'hoarding'. Some say its due to certain government agencies ordering billions of rounds to dry up supply. Some say its both.
Well I have absolutely no idea what the ultimate cause is. No one sends me the marketing reports from the ammo manufacturers or the intel reports from various agencies. IMO anyone saying its one reason or the other like he has the inside scoop, doesnt know what he's talking about - - -unless he can prove otherwise. So those blaming fellow shooter 'hoarders' are pulling that out of thin air without any evidence. Just because you see other shooters buying in stores, doesnt prove that this is the ultimate cause of a situation that many of us never recall being this severe in the past - - - through shootings, elections, etc.

And none of this makes a lick of difference for getting some ammo for ourselves today anyway.

[Here's an additional little mental stretch for some people. Take from it what you will : Back in the 1970s there was a period of severe gasoline shortages and very long gas lines. Now someone could look at those lines and blame the drivers for causing the shortage by always trying to keep their fuel tanks topped off. Someone with a little broader view could say that no, the shortage was caused by the Arabs and their oil embargo. That caused those long lines and rising prices. We only found out years later, that the Arabs were tired of selling their oil for dollars which the US kept printing to finance the Vietnam War and LBJs social programs and general government expansion. The Arabs wanted to sell their oil for other curriencies that hadnt declined in value. Well Kissinger went over to the Middle East and told the Arabs they could go ahead and hike the price of oil to recoup some of their currency losses. Also, since Nixon took the dollar off a gold backing in 1971, the only way to make the dollar 'valuable' was to force other nations to need them to buy oil. The Arabs didnt want to push the prices too high & kill the market, but the Kissinger assured them it wouldnt be opposed by the US government as long as they put their new 'petro dollars' into US Treasuries. When the then Saudi oil minister asked the Shah of Iran why he went along with such outrageously high oil prices, the Shah replied "That's what Dr. Kissinger wants." Kissinger also promised to provide the protective cover of the US military to the Saudi rulers from internal or external threats if they agreed to only price oil in US dollars. Search the work of F. Willliam Engdahl who has done extensive research on this topic, including speaking with that former Saudi oil minister.
There is often more to a situation than we are aware of at the time. It only comes out later, sometimes much later.]

 

[Col. Plink]

In my 5 months on this board, this may be the most ridiculous thread yet.

What is even sadder is that I've read it from start to finish ...

 

[Dezfan]

What is even sadder is that I've read it from start to finish ...

I see nothing useless about it.

It's all open discussion and expression of opinions and views.

We may to all agree on the cause or the cure, but by discussing the topic and expressing our opinions, it helps us all see the other side of the discussion.

I find that valuable.

 

[TYSTYX]

Pointless....

 

[oldnfat]

To all the "hoarders". Would you feel the same way if water was in short supply? Your family had very little water to drink and money was short. Water is expensive. Your neighbor just bought 5,000 gallons to fill his swimming pool. He found a deal at Walmart and bought all they had. Too bad for you. But, thats the free market. Thirsty yet? Oh, it'll get better someday. Ooops! the federal gov't. just bought up 100,000,000,000,000 barrels of water for Homeland Security. It may take a while longer than expected.

 

[Dezfan]

Guess they would have to learn to drink beer like me.

 

[rwsmith]

There is a limit

I am completely fine with free market ideals, but excessive greed bothers me.

You mean like the Stock Market crash of 1929???

 

[rwsmith]

That is why we need so much .22 ammo

Good luck spending days tracking down what you shot.

Plan to shoot a brick per animal to make sure it doesn't get away.

 

[Magicmonger]

To all the "hoarders". Would you feel the same way if water was in short supply? Your family had very little water to drink and money was short. Water is expensive. Your neighbor just bought 5,000 gallons to fill his swimming pool. He found a deal at Walmart and bought all they had. Too bad for you. But, thats the free market. Thirsty yet? Oh, it'll get better someday. Ooops! the federal gov't. just bought up 100,000,000,000,000 barrels of water for Homeland Security. It may take a while longer than expected.

Good analogy...