Thoughts on the Ammo Situation

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This is a ploy by gov to dry up ammo supply in an effort to dry up supplies,and make gun confiscation easy,why else would homeland security order 2 billion rounds hollowpoint 40 s&w? they said its for shooting paper targets of pregnant moms with todelers in tow as their targets depict.
 
andrewstorm said:
This is a ploy by gov to dry up ammo supply in an effort to dry up supplies,and make gun confiscation easy,why else would homeland security order 2 billion rounds hollowpoint 40 s&w? they said its for shooting paper targets of pregnant moms with todelers in tow as their targets depict.
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i dont think that was their strategy. i think they are prepping for civil unrest. otherwise why would they order 2700 MRAPs? to dry up the civilian demand for MRAPs- that doesnt exist?

i think that they realized that things are going down hill, and right after the sandy hook school shooting, all the law makers started buzzing about an assault weapons ban - and that made them nervous about an uprising. its all pointing to one direction (in my eyes) MASS CIVIL UNREST in the future. and their huge order simply placed a large burden on already fragile ammo supply infrastructure.
 
The ethics horse has been beaten to death, run over with a steam roller, flattened into a pile of pink puke ...

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE THIS USELESS RANT CLOSED?
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How about lets just start throwing BS accusations and opinions at each other... that should get it locked down TIGHT. :D
 
SpicyTunaRoll said:
not quite.

as soon as the sandy hook school shooting happened, the following day around lunch people started to order stuff (i was one of them). within hours, the prices starting climbing up because the SELLERS wanted to raise the prices, as demand rose. yes i understand supply & demand. but the sellers didnt have to raise the prices as stocks began to deplete.
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The sellers raised prices as stock depleted. That is supply and demand, which is driven by buyers.

Read it again: Nothing is ever sold at a price above what someone is willing to pay. ;)


.
 
andrewstorm said:
This is a ploy by gov to dry up ammo supply in an effort to dry up supplies,and make gun confiscation easy,why else would homeland security order 2 billion rounds hollowpoint 40 s&w? they said its for shooting paper targets of pregnant moms with todelers in tow as their targets depict.
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Can you wear a tinfoil hat when it's lightning outside? If not, is the government seeding the clouds so that people who wear tinfoil hats must remain indoors? LOL j/k

Seriously, the 2 billion rounds of <ammo type here> being bought has been debunked. Even conservative blog Breitbart.com has contributed to the debunking.

The Great DHS Ammunition Stockpile Myth
 
toadcoder said:
Even conservative blog Breitbart.com has contributed to the debunking.
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"A well-trained police officer will expend a minimum of 2,000 to 5,000 rounds per year, yet may never fire their weapon in defense."

where did he get this info from? most cops have to only qualify twice per year and its just about 50 rounds per qualification (per weapon).

and most dept's tell you: if you wanna train on your own, buy your own ammo (at least where i am at) unless its a dept sponsored class
 
Ammobob said:
I can either take advantage of my customers and charge 5x what the product is worth and make a short term windfall, or I can provide what I get to my loyal customers at my normal profit margin and ensure that I have treated them well, they will remember who did good by them, and will return to me, as being "fair" when things return to normal. Better business model for a brick and mortar store I would think. If I were selling out of the back of my truck and not caring if you came back tomorrow, it would be a better business practice to get all I can get with every purchase. I'm surprised more people don't understand basic business.
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Well maybe you should contact Benton Shooters and tell the owner how how ignorant he is to have no understanding of basic business http://www.bentonshooters.com I'm surprised they are still in business absent your guidance. They've only been in business since 1994 and operate a 25,000sf store.

Tell us about your brick and mortar gun shop.
 
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ChattanoogaPhil said:
Well maybe you should contact Benton Shooters and tell the owner how how ignorant he is to have no understanding of basic business Benton Shooters Supply I'm surprised they are still in business absent your guidance. They've only been in business since 1994 and operate a 25,000sf store.

Tell us about your brick and mortar gun shop.
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That almost made the whole thread worth reading...hilarious.
 
ChattanoogaPhil said:
Well maybe you should contact Benton Shooters and tell the owner how how ignorant he is to have no understanding of basic business Benton Shooters Supply I'm surprised they are still in business absent your guidance. They've only been in business since 1994 and operate a 25,000sf store.

Tell us about your brick and mortar gun shop.
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Maybe you should tell them to get a website that wasn't created in 1994 HTML. It might work better. :rolleyes:
 
RedNeck Jim said:
Yes, that is what I believe. However there are illegal ways of making a profit, which involves ethics... such as using child labor, unsafe factory construction, failure to pay proper wages, purchase of blood diamonds, etc.

The problem with ethics is they are often subjective. You state too much profit, or raising the price too much is unethical. That sounds nice & on a personal level, I agree. However when going beyond the personal level, when dealing with a product on a national level, who gets to decide what is too much? You have yet to answer that. I don't want to be that person & sure don't want anyone else trying to do so... especially the government. That has to be a personal choice and everyone's situation is different. I personally think .10 is too much to pay for 22lr. Someone who is just getting started or someone who works longer hours or makes more money than me may say .20 is too much. So to me, selling ammo at whatever price has absolutely nothing to do with ethics. No one is having to make a choice between feeding their family & buying .20 ammo. The free market will reward those that serve a need & punish those that don't.

I am a firm believer in freedom. Freedom to make as much money as you can. Freedom to pay too much for a nonessential commodity. Freedom to be smarter than others. Freedom to be dumber than most. Freedom to make a personal decision without being judged by someone who doesn't understand my own personal needs or desires. Freedom to succeed & freedom to fail. I believe in personal responsibility.
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I agree. Questions of ethics are very subjective and personal. That is the purpose of this thread, to discuss the ethics of the situation we find ourselves in. I too as I have said many times, believe in freedom, but no freedom is absolute. And no, I don't get to decide what the rules are by myself. That is why we have a Constitutional Republic, so that we may decide together what the rules are. I believe there are certain types of behavior that are ALWAYS wrong, and certain types are ALWAYS right, situation surrounding them irrelevant.

Again I don't find the "amount" of money unethical, nor do I think it should be limited in any way, but I do find some "methods" or "choices" we make on how to make that money very unethical. And I am sure most people have the same set of ideals that they hold too, although they may differ from mine. Do you have a right to be as stupid as you want? Sure. Do I have a right to be offended by people taking advantage of stupid people? You bet.
 
Lost Lake said:
Read this post real slow and think about it. ;)

Nobody has ever sold anything ----- at a price that was more than what the seller was willing to pay.

Ever.

Buyers set the price.

Not sellers.

Better read that again and again and again until you understand it.

Buyers determine what a product is worth.



Now, I just had 1500 rounds of .22LR in my Cabelas cart for $74 and cancelled the order. Why?

I think it is too much money. I think the prices are coming down. I have enough on hand to wait.

So did Cabelas tell me how much I was going to pay for .22 ammo today?

I guess they didn't.

I'm the buyer. I decide what the price is. ;)
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I'm not disagreeing. You are 100% correct. However, my problem is, what about people who are new to firearms? New to shooting sports? And they see the current way of what they perceive as "gun guys" who are supposed to have certain set of moral, ethics, standards, are doing just like everyone else and taking advantage of the situation to rip off other "gun guys"? Makes us look bad. Makes us look unethical.

The thoughts for this discussion came about from a class on ethics I was taking. Very, VERY liberal classmates. One of them said something along the lines of this:

"I find it funny that pro gun people are always talking about ethics and morals, and what they stand for. Helping each other out, and brotherhood and all that other nonsense they spout. How they have to stick together and such. Then here comes a "situation" involving their beloved guns and bullets. I think it's hilarious. They are turning on each other faster than a fat guy jumping on a cheeseburger! They are taking advantage of other gun peoples fear and panic, especially new gun people, and really sticking it to them! Man what a funny sight! No mercy, no helping hand, just sticking it to each other for money. Jacking up prices to a level that they should be ashamed of, laughing and joking as they sucker some poor scared panicking slob out of his money. And the "die hard" ones are the worse! You don't hear sorry about your situation, glad you finally got into shooting or personal protection or whatever. All you hear is you are stupid, you are lazy, you want something for nothing, you should have been prepared. It's priceless to see them taking advantage of and eating their own. I used to believe they were all full of it, now I am sure of it.

Now granted this is all I could write down, and it is not exactly correct as I was abbreviating alot, and there was alot more, but you get the idea. With the price jacking and the unethical business practices going on, it is hurting peoples perception of the gun culture. They see us as phoney. As just out to make a buck at the slightest opportunity. That is what really bothered me. That is what really got me thinking, and prompted this thread, and I am grateful to people for taking it seriously and participating. I learned that the other side has this perception of us as honest people, full of integrity, sheepdogs, defenders of what is right. And man some of us are taking the chance we were given to prove them correct and flushing it down the sewer.
 
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ChattanoogaPhil said:
Well maybe you should contact Benton Shooters and tell the owner how how ignorant he is to have no understanding of basic business Benton Shooters Supply I'm surprised they are still in business absent your guidance. They've only been in business since 1994 and operate a 25,000sf store.

Tell us about your brick and mortar gun shop.
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I'm sorry that you don't agree. I managed a district at one time in my life, and had close to a dozen stores I was responsible for. We used a model of lower prices, and it ensured long term, loyal customers. We could have raised prices like everyone else, and sure a lot of them would have still come, and would have paid the price, and would have resented us for it and grumbled about it. But we chose to keep prices low when everyone else was charging about 20% to 30% more. Customers would consistently tell us they were grateful to us for being fair and loyal to our customers. They would tell us how refreshing it was not to get ripped off. They would recommend us to their friends and family, and we would get their business for life. I refused to rip people off just because everyone else was, or simply because I could.

And this is an open discussion as I intended, and am thankful for, I just hope it can remain civil?
 
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We are opposed around the world by a ruthless and monolithic conspiracy,that relies on covet means,...JFK
 
Ammobob said:
I'm sorry that you don't agree. I managed a district at one time in my life, and had close to a dozen stores I was responsible for.

But we chose to keep prices low when everyone else was charging about 20% to 30% more. Customers would consistently tell us they were grateful to us for being fair and loyal to our customers. They would tell us how refreshing it was not to get ripped off. They would recommend us to their friends and family, and we would get their business for life. I refused to rip people off just because everyone else was, or simply because I could.
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So how did that model work out for the dozen stores that closed? :eek:

Customers were really happy those stores were losing their rears weren't they? Customers don't care if the store makes money.

I'd be happy as heck if the gas station in town only charged a nickel a gallon!! I'd tell all my friends (both of them :p ) and they'd have a LOT of loyal customers..... Until they went bankrupt.

Bottom line: You sell at a price to make money. Businesses are not in business to make friends.

Sell too high, you lose sales. Sell too low, you lose the store.
 
I read an interesting story recently that theorized that the shortage in ammo is somewhat caused by people refusing to increase prices. The theory continues that the scalpers have nothing better to do than to buy up all the cheap stuff, creating the shortage. The theory is that if prices were increased across the board, there would be no incentive to scalp.

Not sure I entirely buy into the theory but it is an interesting thought.

And keeping prices low isn't the only guarantee to customer loyalty. I have a fairly new gun shop near work that has kept their prices low, but the place is run by a bunch of kids with no clue about customer service. I'll happily pay higher prices for better service and friendlier people.
 
eflyersteve said:
I read an interesting story recently that theorized that the shortage in ammo is somewhat caused by people refusing to increase prices. The theory continues that the scalpers have nothing better to do than to buy up all the cheap stuff, creating the shortage. The theory is that if prices were increased across the board, there would be no incentive to scalp.

Not sure I entirely buy into the theory but it is an interesting thought.

And keeping prices low isn't the only guarantee to customer loyalty. I have a fairly new gun shop near work that has kept their prices low, but the place is run by a bunch of kids with no clue about customer service. I'll happily pay higher prices for better service and friendlier people.
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I've heard similar stories. One is about a musician named Jack White who sold limited release records for $300. Fans were in an uproar. But he said that what generally happens is resellers would buy the albums at regular cost and sell them for $300. Therefore if that's what they're worth, then he should just sell them himself for $300 and cut out the resellers.
 
I think this thread has run it's course as far as I am concerned. I thank everyone for their advice, comments, suggestions, and overall, the chance for a new guy to be welcomed and be able to discuss a hot button topic. When it begins to degrade into schoolyard bickering and comments, the real discussion is over.

When I find not just one but several of my non threatening posts, calling for civility, as well as replies that showed my point of view being arbitrarily removed from the thread, and the offensive posts left to speak their mind and derail a good discussion, it is no longer a good discussion.

I don't know why my posts were removed, and I doubt I'll see an answer forthcoming. I wish you all the best, and maybe we will engage in other discussions that do not decline into senseless bickering, and one sided censorship.

I realize this forum is privately owned, and as such I have no real expectation of free speech, but I refuse to continue when my valid contributions to a discussion that I found serious and stimulating are removed without cause, while others views are left on full display, giving me no recourse to defend my position or myself.

Good Hunting and God Bless. - Bob
 
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Really?

There have been 32 posts deleted in this thread. 13 were deleted via moderation for off topic chatter and the rest were self imposed deletions by the authors. Two of your postings were deleted via moderation, Bob. See below.

[[ If you don't like it or don't feel it's worth you time to participate, then why are you? Why would you want to force your idea that it should be closed on the rest of us? Nobody is forcing you to read this, or be a part of it. ]]

[[ I find it a little disturbing that some people seem to be on a mission to disrupt this thread or have it shut down. If you don't agree with the discussion, or don't want to participate in the thread, or think it's pointless or foolish or whatever, then why are you here? No one is forcing you to be involved. If I touched a nerve with you, you have the option to excuse yourself from the discussion. Why try so hard to disrupt speech you don't like? ]]

You consider these postings "serious" and "stimulating" to the topic? :rolleyes:

If you think it's all one sided... here are posts that were deleted via moderation in that string.


[[ CAN WE PLEASE HAVE THIS USELESS RANT CLOSED? ]]

[[ Is this thread still going on? MY GOD! ]]

[[ Sadly, Yes. But a few of us seem to be doing our part to get it euthanized. ]]

------------------

All of the above is off topic chatter, typically leading to useless bickering. That's why this stuff gets deleted.

Since you think your thread has run it's course, Bob, we'll go ahead and close it.
 
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