I have a very nice Model 586 that I bought, used, at least twenty years ago. One reason that I bought it was because it looked as though it had been used very little. It has served as a nightstand gun as long as I've owned it. I have put no more than fifty rounds or so thru it. It has always worked flawlessly and is accurate. I recently bought two other S&W revolvers (Models 19 and 36), both used. I've dry fired them a good bit, and shot them some. I decided to pull my 586 out and shoot a few rounds. While dry-firing, I noticed something that I had never noticed before, and wouldn't have noticed it now if I hadn't been firing the other ones. When firing single-action, the hammer felt strange (compared to the other two revolvers) in the last bit of its rearward travel. I did some comparing and investigating and it seems I have a timing issue. The cylinder locks up a bit before the hammer fully cocks. In other words, the hammer has to continue its rear travel for the sears to engage, after the cylinder has locked and stopped rotating. That small bit of rearward travel, after cylinder lock, is what feels funny and caught my attention. Investigating further, I held my finger on the cylinder to prevent its intertia from spinning it, and slowly dry-fired in double-action. The hammer falls without the cylinder lock clicking into place. The cylinder has to rotate a super-tiny amount before the lock clicks in. Without my finger providing resistance to it, its inertia causes it to lock everytime. So, what have I got going on here? Should I even be concerned? After all, it works fine and I'd never have noticed it unless I compared it to my other two revolvers. Thanks for any info.
Timing issue on 586
- Thread starter daveboy
- Start date
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Did this happen with completely empty chambers perhaps? Having empty brass in the chambers usually tightens the relationship of ratchet to cylinder a bit. If not a bit thicker hand would cure this.
PS it is actually lack of carry up. Timing is the relationship of cylinder to bore when cylinder is actually locked
PS it is actually lack of carry up. Timing is the relationship of cylinder to bore when cylinder is actually locked
Tried it with snapcaps. No difference.
Concerning the hand...you say a bit "thicker" hand would cure it. Do you mean a bit longer? If so, I understand how that could solve the issue when firing double-action. However, wouldn't that make the single-action issue worse, since it's locking up in SA before the sears engage? That's what has me stumped.
Concerning the hand...you say a bit "thicker" hand would cure it. Do you mean a bit longer? If so, I understand how that could solve the issue when firing double-action. However, wouldn't that make the single-action issue worse, since it's locking up in SA before the sears engage? That's what has me stumped.
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No thicker. A wider hand will not move to the left as much in its frame window and stay engaged with tooth a bit longer. The ratchet tooth is in the exact same place when stop engages stop notch both single and double action. If it slides by in DA locked up it will slide by in single action to. Once the hand slides past the trigger can move still move to release DA or SA sear
Steelslaver is correct regarding a thicker or wider hand solving this issue. Hands are a fitted part and just don't drop in. Honestly, when I was an armorer, I'd have officers come with the same double-action, carry up issue you describe. A lot of it is user induced silliness. Who holds their finger against the cylinder to impose forces working against the hand? I can make a revolver do a lot of things it shouldn't by imposing unnatural forces on it. A true carry up issue is obvious and occurs when parts are worn sufficiently to not allow carry up when the revolver is operated normally. Replace the hand at that point. Once you have used an over-sized hand you are done. There aren't over, over-sized hands. Also, snap caps aren't the same as brass. Try it with empties in place, resized if you like, and operate the revolver normally. I'm sure you'll find it will carry up just fine. Additionally, the single action cocking effort you describe leads me to believe your hand is still of sufficient thickness. The resistance you describe is the hand passing the ratchet tooth after carry up has occurred. I think your hand is completely serviceable. In sharing all this, I'm just trying to convince you not to embark on an unnecessary repair, requiring knowledge of how to fit the part, for what otherwise is a serviceable revolver.
I agree completely that we should never try and fix something that's not broken. I was not concerned so much about the cylinder not locking fully in DA with my finger applying pressure, as long as it locked when cycling normally (which it does). I had simply noticed that when trying to determine my "issue" in SA and thought it might be related. What you say about the hand passing the ratchet tooth after lockup makes perfect sense. It's simply not something present in my three other S&W revolvers, so I thought something was wrong and I might be making the problem worse by continuing to use it. Many thanks!
MYSTERY SOLVED!!!!
I decided that I'd pull my sideplate off and see if I could see anything going on in my gun that didn't look right. Once the sideplate was off, and the cylinder removed, I pulled the trigger back and it felt exactly the same way. With the cylinder removed, that ruled out the hand and ratchet interface. I backed off the mainspring strain screw several turns so I could operate the action repeatedly without putting too much strain on the hammer boss. I noticed the screw wasn't tight, but it was nearly flush with the frame and didn't think anything of it.
I cycled the gun in both DA and SA many times, closely watching everything. I couldn't see anything out of sorts. It seemed like the last 3 or 4 degrees of trigger travel before cocking was much harder than up until that spot. I decided to strip the gun, inspect, clean and lube, and reassemble to see if that could make any difference (I was grasping at straws by this point).
I reassembled with my last step being installing the mainspring. I left the strain screw backed out 3 or 4 turns again, so as not to put undue strain on the trigger boss. The problem was still there, and if anything it was a little more pronounced. I decided I was worrying about nothing, so I installed the sideplate and tightened the strain screw.
To my amazement, the problem went away and the trigger cocked just like it was supposed to. I did a little investigating and determined that the problem was the strain screw. If it was backed out even two turns, the problem reappeared. I know that screw is supposed to be tight, but I have always understood the reason to be the possibility of light primer strikes. Apparently, if it's backed out it can also cause the issue I had.
I decided that I'd pull my sideplate off and see if I could see anything going on in my gun that didn't look right. Once the sideplate was off, and the cylinder removed, I pulled the trigger back and it felt exactly the same way. With the cylinder removed, that ruled out the hand and ratchet interface. I backed off the mainspring strain screw several turns so I could operate the action repeatedly without putting too much strain on the hammer boss. I noticed the screw wasn't tight, but it was nearly flush with the frame and didn't think anything of it.
I cycled the gun in both DA and SA many times, closely watching everything. I couldn't see anything out of sorts. It seemed like the last 3 or 4 degrees of trigger travel before cocking was much harder than up until that spot. I decided to strip the gun, inspect, clean and lube, and reassemble to see if that could make any difference (I was grasping at straws by this point).
I reassembled with my last step being installing the mainspring. I left the strain screw backed out 3 or 4 turns again, so as not to put undue strain on the trigger boss. The problem was still there, and if anything it was a little more pronounced. I decided I was worrying about nothing, so I installed the sideplate and tightened the strain screw.
To my amazement, the problem went away and the trigger cocked just like it was supposed to. I did a little investigating and determined that the problem was the strain screw. If it was backed out even two turns, the problem reappeared. I know that screw is supposed to be tight, but I have always understood the reason to be the possibility of light primer strikes. Apparently, if it's backed out it can also cause the issue I had.
Protocall_Design
Member
If the strain screw is backed out enough, the mainspring can get tall enough that the hammer hits it when cocked. You might check with the sideplate off and see if that is the problem.
Engine49guy
Member
What dash revision is it?
If it's a 586 ( no dash) or 586-1 does it have
the letter "M" stamped in the yoke cut ?
If it's a 586 ( no dash) or 586-1 does it have
the letter "M" stamped in the yoke cut ?
Seven High
Member
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A lack of lubrication and or crud in the internal mechanism frequently causes problems. How did the strain screw get backed out?
Apparently that is what was happening.
That is why I opened it up was to see if any crud was in there. I don't know how the screw got backed out. I've owned it (used) for about twenty years and don't ever recall doing that. I don't ever recall having the grips/sideplate off. It may have been this way since I've owned it. It has always fired fine. I never noticed the "hitch" in the hammer until comparing it to my other Smiths.
No dash, no 'M'.
Engine49guy
Member
The factory recall is still in effect,
If you send it to SW for the hammer nose bushing mod they in the past have fixed any other issues while it was there gratis.
If you send it to SW for the hammer nose bushing mod they in the past have fixed any other issues while it was there gratis.
You got my attention. How do I learn more about this recall? I checked the S&W website and didn't see anything.
mikeruns
Member
Call these characters….you can find a # in there after the holiday…
https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/contact-us
They will tell you exactly what to do to get the mod. Cheers and Happy New Year
https://www.smith-wesson.com/customer-service/contact-us
They will tell you exactly what to do to get the mod. Cheers and Happy New Year
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Engine49guy
Member
You can try calling them Thursday, they will ask the serial number then check their database to confirm it hasn't had the M mod, next they usually arrange a shipping label then you mail it to them, since they won't return a gun that's out of factory spec Id expect it to be returned in tip top running order.
On a side note remove your stocks before sending it to be safe.
Keep us posted how it goes and good luck.
On a side note remove your stocks before sending it to be safe.
Keep us posted how it goes and good luck.
I appreciate the info. Do you know exactly what the mod "fixes"?
Great info and thanks. What exactly is the "M mod"?
Installing a new hammer nose bushing in the frame.
