Trigger fix on sw9ve...yay or nay?

The Sigma is a great gun very reliable, for those who can not stand the trigger but still want a S&W product the SD or M&P might be a better choice.

The sigma does what it was designed to do, very well I might add. You can safely carry a round chambered without any fear of it going off. The Glock does have a lighter trigger which is why there are so many accidental discharges.

I do believe in modify firearms to suit the shooter but not at the cost of reliability. There are countless videos on YouTube were you see a person putting random springs in the sear assembly. Who knows the weight of these springs or how many cycles they are rated for? Worst case is the springs break and now they are floating in the sear block, not good if you are in a situation were you need the gun to fire.

If a person requires a lighter trigger why on earth did they purchase a Sigma? The firing operation of the Sigma is what makes it a heavy pull it acts just like a revolver. Why not get a firearm which is SA or SA/DA?

Most of the springs they are installing are only fillers for the larger outer spring, and whether it takes a set or not is of no consequence...as for sear springs making a huge difference, i guarantee i could add another 10-15lbs under the sear and you would NOT be able to budge the sear.

As to WHY? buy the Sigma, the answer is simple, even if most people intuit the idea rather than say it outright.....the guns cost under $100 to produce, all overhead including advertising included, whether Glock/XD/M&P/etc and most people blanch rightly at paying $500 or more for PLASTIC (not the manufacturer propaganda "polymer") pistol, when the only true difference between them is the trigger pull...if you don't believe that, then look at the picture below and pick out the $300 gun vs the $500 vs the $400 gun...

Just as a PS again as to WHY?....even as a constant gun toter and even knowing the heavy Sigma trigger is about the safest out there, for not using a dedicated covered-trigger holster or for proof against any inadvertant pressure on trigger while carrying/holstering and the BANG that will surely follow, i looked at some of the easy mods and got the itch, just because it is there...many folk who like guns are also people who like machines, and the Sigma is simpler every time you look at it, and most everyone who looks at one in detail KNOWS they could tackle this one....this isn't like fitting a new sear or extractor to a 1911...this is tinkertoys, and tinkertoys begged to be tinkered.
1f.jpg

the above from oct 2010 Handloader magazine, article by Charles Petty
 
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I agree 100% that most who purchased the sigma only did so because of the price. Myself included I would have never bought it if they didnt offer the two free mags at $299.

I also agree that this is a good gun to tinker with because of the low cost. I do the same thing to my lower cost guns. My only concern is for those who purchase the Sigma as their first gun for a dedicated carry gun. In that case any modifications to the firing mechanism would be ill advised unless you have the skill and knowledge.

There are many out there who just obtained their CHL and purchase the Sigma because of the low cost. Which there is no problem with that at all the Sigma makes a great carry gun if left as is from factory.

I wouldnt want my life to depend on a spring I pulled out of a pen or a pencil.
 
This is not a good question to ask here because many active posters feel that no Sigma should ever be modified in any way. Primarily because they think the gun may become unreliable, cannot be used for defense anymore, legal reasons, etc., etc., etc. All of these are of course opinions and may or may not be true. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with light modifications to a gun or improving the trigger. The 1911 community has been doing it for 100 years. The S&W K Frame and other revo shooters have been doing so for almost as long. The $0.25 Glock trigger job is almost legendary. Apex, Ghost and dozens of other companies have built their businesses on trigger modifications. But for some reason in the world of the Sigma it is utterly taboo.

I just want to touch on this one more time....the most important objection is SAFETY, as the heavy pull is the ONLY thing that prevents the gun from firing inadvertantly...the 1911 has multiple safeties to prevent such from happening, and i have seen even them fail when the full-cock notch was worn PLUS the sear spring had inadequate tension to catch the half-cock, and the gun discharged when the slide was racked...but normally you can lighten the pull up and be assured the thumb safety, half-cock, and grip safety will do their job. As for DA revolvers, nobody in their right mind is lowering the DA pull to what folk are doing to Sigmas, and if they did, there would not be enough power to the hammer for reliable ignition.

The world is full of stories of guns along Glockish lines lacking any sort of manual safety discharging when holstered and the finger was a bit slow getting off the trigger, or some leather in the holster bunching ahead of the trigger and the gun firing as the seated wearer turned, or the gun worn with the trigger exposed and the trigger getting hung on something, or the gun in a pocket and something getting hung in the trigger so that when the gun was drawn the gun also fired, etc etc etc etc etc.

THIS is the main reason to not mess with the Sigma trigger....if you intend on carrying, you should really not do more than perhaps smooth/polish working surfaces, unless you are fully aware the gun will require the special handling precautions of other guns of this ilk....most people doing these mods are completely unaware of the dangers of doing so....

IF they know this, then there is no real reason to deny them their fun, but they will be cutting down on versatility, such as it now MUST always have a rigid holster with fully covered trigger as a forever accessory stuck to the gun....for a range or house or vehicle gun, this is not much a liability, so long as they are also assured reliable function, and even then, a range gun doesn't even need that...

But advising against mods has nothing to do with snobbishness or ignorance from most posts i've read, and has everything to do with keeping the original idea behind the gun intact....a safetyless self-loader that is as safe as a modern DA revolver....which is an uncommon thing...a VERY uncommon thing.
 
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I have worked on the triggers of mine and the wifes. Mine is a bit lighter and a bit shorter than hers. Last range trip she fired mine much better than hers and we swapped.Yesterday I worked on my "new to me" one and smoothed out the trigger pretty good. I left the striker as is . On my old one I took a tiny bit off the striker where it breaks from the sear and that shortened the pull a little. This is really something that should be done by a gunsmith. I probably got lucky that it worked out good. Both still have the torshion springs but I've modded them so the do very little. All other springs are factory. Solid, safe, realiable, bargain price and born in the USA.
 
But advising against mods has nothing to do with snobbishness or ignorance from most posts i've read, and has everything to do with keeping the original idea behind the gun intact.

I think this thread proves my point even more than searching old threads. I simply stated that people who advise against modding a Sigma are simply providing an opinion. An opinion that may or may not be supported in fact (and one that they seem to be very defensive about). My opinion differs as my first hand experience differs. But because of that words like obnoxious, snobbishness and ignorance are being thrown around. The OP bought a Sigma and came here because he is obviously concerned about the heavy trigger pull. He was looking for a solution and if there were any known (and proven) potential issues. I am pretty sure he was not concerned with keeping the original idea behind the gun intact.
 
The OP bought a Sigma and came here because he is obviously concerned about the heavy trigger pull. He was looking for a solution and if there were any known (and proven) potential issues. I am pretty sure he was not concerned with keeping the original idea behind the gun intact.

He also stated this was his first handgun, so id assume he is not a gunsmith. Best case he files the sear down a little removes some springs and the gun works but now you have voided the warranty.

I still stand by my original statement that you will still be left with a heavy trigger because of the striker spring, its a DAO the trigger will be heavy. A easy way to show this is with a factory Sigma (empty of course) rack the slide back to engage the striker and pull the trigger, notice the weight. Now without racking the slide pull the trigger again, what you feel now is only the weight of the springs in the sear assembly not the striker.

I just can't understand why people buy a DAO pistol then complain about the weight of the trigger. For about the same price you can get a DA/SA.
 
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This is not a good question to ask here because many active posters feel that no Sigma should ever be modified in any way.......... But for some reason in the world of the Sigma it is utterly taboo.

I would say those comments implied a certain amount of whatever it is you are denying, and it seems other respondents took it that way too....i certainly stated my reasons in what i thought was a coherent manner.

and i hope my response showed to the original poster the inadvisability of "fixing" the heavy trigger for SAFETY reasons, and not unlikely ayoobism lawsuit fear nor in compromising reliability, which may or may not be an issue to the original questioner,... and totally concurred that light modification, such as polishing parts for smoother operation was a no-harm-no-foul...

in short, using my post for an example of whatever it is you feel is wrong with advise to leave well enough alone, was a poor one to use for an example....as poor an example as using 1911's with manual safeties as a green light to modify the trigger on a safetyless gun, likewise the DA revolvers which can not be lightened to near the degree as the Sigma and the gun still fire...and safety is not an opinion...it is a fact.

and as a PS, i would be giving this exact same advise were he inquiring about a Glock, M&P, whatever...it's just so happens the Sigma is safer out of the box than any of those best sellers, due to the trigger he wants to "fix" as if it were defective.
 
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I would say those comments implied a certain amount of whatever it is you are denying

I would respond but you completely lost me while I was trying to translate the very first sentence.
 
I'm fairly new to the gun game but other than a 1930 Model 1905, my wife and I have test fired any gun we were interested in then bought the one we liked. I can't see the point of buying something you don't really like and then immedialtely trying to "fix" it.
 
I can't see the point of buying something you don't really like and then immedialtely trying to "fix" it.

That's always baffled me too! Especially when it isn't broke in the first place.

There are plenty of guns out there with a lighter trigger to choose from.
 
Anyone Know of a Gunsmith for the Sigma Trigger?

Does anyone know of a Gunsmith who might evaluate a Sigma's
trigger mechanism for potential modification ? I guess I don't want to f*** up my gun. But I would like a lighter pull and possibly a shorter trigger travel. I have been told S&W will not
modify the trigger at all if you send it to them. Or, they will
put it back to the original specs if you send them one that has been modified. Anyone have a name or contact of someone who
will professionally evaluate and modify these guns ???
Thankx for any input.
 
Dont know if he still does it or not but everyone use to send their sigma under warranty to this guy, there is no free trigger job. If your sigma trigger is excessively gritty or doesnt break correctly send it on in.

LSG Manufacturing
Ask for Frank Smith
10059 Hwy 1476
Comanche, TX 76442
(325) 885-2700
[email protected]
LSG, Mfg|Gun Parts|Warranty|Gunsmithing
 
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As to the above question on trigger work, i also had heard about the gent over in TX being a licensed warranty station, and also Smith was honoring complaints about rough triggers by smoothing them somewhat, which sounds like an excellent remedy for those folk who don't wish to do any of the smoothing/polishing operations listed elsewhere.....

I think this thread proves my point .... I simply stated..... But because of that words like obnoxious, snobbishness and ignorance are being thrown around.

No translation needed....i spelled it out for you....the first comment you made about "for some reason" implied lack of reason to several respondents, and now you act as if you are being assaulted while you are as pure as the driven snow and the entire thread is all about quashing your "opinion", insulting you personally, and used my post as an example....oh, puhleeez....
 
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No need to become a drama queen. I get it. You want this to be about me and not about the gun. This is a discussion about opinion versus fact and not something to get so emotional over.

Like I said; everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that does not make it a fact no matter how much you argue about it or how many times you declare it to be true. You can own your opinion and I will own mine. The OP can weigh the merits of both and hopefully seek out many more opinions off forum and from other professional sources before making a decisions.

Hopefully all goes well and he is able to improve on an already very good gun or learn to like it as is.
 
I just like to see a video of a someone actually measuring the trigger pull
 
Dont know if he still does it or not but everyone use to send their sigma under warranty to this guy, there is no free trigger job. If your sigma trigger is excessively gritty or doesnt break correctly send it on in.

LSG Manufacturing
Ask for Frank Smith
10059 Hwy 1476
Comanche, TX 76442
(325) 885-2700
[email protected]
LSG, Mfg|Gun Parts|Warranty|Gunsmithing

This post is not intended to disparage Mr. Smith. Last year, after owning a SW40VE for a year and being unhappy with the grittiness of the trigger and the heavy pull, I contacted Mr. Smith and made arrangements to have him check my gun.

I had run about 200 rounds through it which, in my experience, usually is an adequate "break-in". The trigger had improved slightly but not adequately.

Well, a copy of my invoice is attached (there was no charge).

As you can see, "GRITTY, HEAVY TRIGGER PULL, TRIGGER SLACK" are cited as my complaint.

The handwriting is faint but reads, "Replace sear housing Test fire 10 rounds."

When I got the gun back, it was more gritty than when I sent it in. I had a new sear to break in. I think Mr. Smith did what a warranty gunsmith can be expected to do.

So I took it in my own hands, took the sear block out, removed the striker, and did the smoothing and polishing which I have described elsewhere.

My point is that, if you pull the trigger and it goes "Bang", then, in my experience, S&W figures it is working.

If you want to smooth out the trigger (and take several pounds off the pull weight) then I suggest you check with a local range for a referral to a private gunsmith and ask if he will do the things that I have described elsewhere. {See post #19 on this thread} You will wind up with all of the original springs intact.

It should not be too expensive and I think you will be pleased with the result. But I would not expect S&W to do this for you as part of the warranty.

BTW, Academy Sports in Dallas advertises the Sigma VE, both 9mm and .40, for $280 today. I keep this gun in the car loaded with Winchester 180gr PDX1 JHPs. I'm not going to put a $1,200 Kimber Custom in the car and have it stolen.
 

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I know I am late to this discussion. There is one thing though that has been said over and over that just doesn't compute.
--------------
"If you remove or lighten any of the springs in the sear assembly you are still left with the heavy striker spring. If you have 2 springs which are mechanically linked (one is 2lbs the other is 10lbs) and remove or lighten the smaller spring you are still left with the weight of the heavier spring."
---------------------

Your theory is all wrong here. If you have a 10lb spring and add a 2lb spring to it it DOES increase the pull.

it would be like saying I have a 12oz cup with only 10oz coffee in it and add 2oz of coffee. I don't have 10oz of coffee I have 12oz of coffee.

So if I drink 2oz of that 12oz of coffe, I am left with 10oz of coffee.

Springs are work in the same way as gravity in my illustration.

So go have some coffee and take a load off. :D
 
interested in making my trigger smoother. Probably will not remove spring but how and where do you polish? Bill
 
the trigger is heavy, like the double action on a wheel gun. there are two thing you can do. first you can shoot it a lots and learn the trigger. or, second you can do a trigger clean up and drop in a galloway trigger kit. i got two sigmas and one i did option 1 and the other option 2. both guns are used a range guns for the grandkids. they have many round shot. both have never given me any problems. so if the standard heavy trigger is to heavy for you then do a trigger clean up and the galloway trigger kit.
 
look for surfaces that contact and slide against each other. Like the trigger and sear contact surfaces. spring and strut surfaces.
 
Have things SD9VE and am getting use to the stock trigger. I do like the way it feels.
 
Ultradot Matchdot 2 on S&W 41 PC

Hi Guys:
I've just spent some time trying mount a Matchdot 2 on my S&W 41PC.
As you can see from the picture, the rail on the top of the gun does not seem to be long enough to install the mounts on opposite ends of the sight. I was able to get them both on the front of the sight, and it seems to be quite secure. I haven't attempted to sight it in yet, so I don't even know if it will work. Does anybody see any danger to mounting the sight this way.
Ultradot advertises that this sight should work on this gun.

Thanks!
 

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Having acquired a SW40VE with probably less than two boxes of shells through it, I too wanted to improve this sidearm.

First, a Meprolight True-Dot Tritium sight set and Talon Grips were installed. Two simple and effective upgrades that I'd suggest to anyone with one of these sidearms. But then came the all-important issue of that post glock lawsuit terrible heavy, rough trigger....this one was @11-12 gritty pounds.

So, following an "online source" (I don't want to break any rules so I'm withholding the vendor name) with a video guide y'all are likely aware of; the sear sides and sear ramp were polished with 600 and then 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper in rubbing alcohol. The store was out of 1000 so I went with 2000 figuring it would render smoother results than 1000. I think it did. The flat ramp on the sear was also carefully polished the same way....those chatter/stamping marks in the sear stamping were completely removed, and the ramp integrity (flatness) was retained. All 3 polished sear surfaces truly looked like a mirror or chromed, when done.

The sear break-point was not touched whatsoever, as advised.(if a spare sear for backup can be found, a gentle cleanup of that surface may be attempted in the future). While the sear assembly was in pieces on the bench, the outer sear spring was upgraded to the same online vendor's offering. All sear assembly parts were cleaned, reassembled, and then the sear ramp & housing cam surface was treated with dry graphite powder as directed. A bit of time was spent working that powder into the sear's polycarbonate housing cam surface just by squeezing the trigger with the slide off (and sear assembly reinstalled) repeatedly, and dusting those contact areas with a bit more graphite... excess graphite was shook out on the bench. Both the OEM pigtail & outer sear spring have been saved and put away in the S&W box.

Results? Very good. What it did NOT do is shorten the overall pull of the trigger at all. But the gains are still very noticeable and well worth the effort and the $16 spent (YES I'm A PAYING CUSTOMER hehe) on the replacement spring, and $13 for sandpaper & dry graphite down at a local store.

Results: there is the welcome decrease in pull weight and overall increase of pull smoothness. This was just recently performed, so it's a new 'thing'.

What it did accomplish:
1. Decrease, I'd say, @5 pounds off the pull give or take a wee bit. This isn't scientific, but the best I can offer. Very acceptable.

2. Drastically smoothed-out the pull. And it's still improving the more I work the trigger. What I ended-up with, is a virtual two-stage military type of trigger pull...there is the obvious takeup, and then you get to the second stage where the feel noticeably changes (firms-up) and you're approaching the break point. Once you continue to squeeze through the second stage takeup, there's a moderate amt of rearward movement in that stage moving towards the breakpoint & you continue to follow-through a bit and then "BREAK". What I'm perceiving is that while you know that you're approaching the BOOM zone in the pull; once you get there, it seems the break is still a surprise when it happens as you continue the squeeze.

I'd love to see a safe, dependable solution to decrease the travel and improve it more, but I don't think it's out there. Apex doesn't seem to offer one (anymore?). This little sidearm will likely never be known as having anything but a utility trigger, but I like it for what it is now as the improvement is substantial, and it seems to be improving the more it get cycled.

Hope this helps someone else with the SW40/9VE model sidearm.

Thanks, "Jeff" for your product and the invaluable videos. Gladly will send others your way.
 
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Foghorn: I think I used the same 'online source' to upgrade my SW9VE trigger with similar results. Before I had a quite gritty 12 pound trigger. Afterwards the trigger is much smoother and around 7.75 lbs measured with a gauge. Very happy with the results.
 
I own a SD40VE not a 9mm but the trigger is the same. The trigger was not a smooth shooter much rougher than any of my revolvers. I have Apex triggers in many of my revolvers. Why reinvent the wheel? I installed an Apex trigger and noted a lot of improvement. I've never been afraid of improving the trigger. "Judge & jury, I wanted to make sure I did not hit the wrong person."
 
I know I am late to this discussion. There is one thing though that has been said over and over that just doesn't compute.
--------------
"If you remove or lighten any of the springs in the sear assembly you are still left with the heavy striker spring. If you have 2 springs which are mechanically linked (one is 2lbs the other is 10lbs) and remove or lighten the smaller spring you are still left with the weight of the heavier spring."
---------------------

Your theory is all wrong here. If you have a 10lb spring and add a 2lb spring to it it DOES increase the pull.

it would be like saying I have a 12oz cup with only 10oz coffee in it and add 2oz of coffee. I don't have 10oz of coffee I have 12oz of coffee.

So if I drink 2oz of that 12oz of coffe, I am left with 10oz of coffee.

Springs are work in the same way as gravity in my illustration.

So go have some coffee and take a load off. :D

I know this is a zombie thread, but I wanted to weigh in on this part of the question anyway. Seems to me that it would depend on how the springs are arranged in relation to each other.

If they are stacked end to end then the weaker one will fully compress first with only 2 lbs pressure then you will proceed to compress the stronger one and that will take 10 lbs pressure.

HOWEVER, if they are one-inside-the-other, or being compressed side-by-side (or a comparable arrangement) so that you are compressing both at the same time, then their compression weights add together to require 12 lbs force to compress both at once.
 
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I own a SD40VE not a 9mm but the trigger is the same. The trigger was not a smooth shooter much rougher than any of my revolvers. I have Apex triggers in many of my revolvers. Why reinvent the wheel? I installed an Apex trigger and noted a lot of improvement. I've never been afraid of improving the trigger. "Judge & jury, I wanted to make sure I did not hit the wrong person."

Ok, so I gather you are running the Apex replacements. My .40 is the SW40VE (before the SD & M&P series, and after the original Sigmas). So I need to find something to fit it, if available. At one time Apex did offer something that had to be fitted to the particular SWVE frames whether the .40 or 9mm. I'll email Apex to see if they still have it, if it will mitigate some of this football-field pull length. Thanks!
 
Ok, so I gather you are running the Apex replacements. My .40 is the SW40VE (before the SD & M&P series, and after the original Sigmas). So I need to find something to fit it, if available. At one time Apex did offer something that had to be fitted to the particular SWVE frames whether the .40 or 9mm. I'll email Apex to see if they still have it, if it will mitigate some of this football-field pull length. Thanks!
I own an SD9 with the Galloway Boudica trigger and Wesbaun spring kit. I originally had an APEX spring kit in it but found the Wesbaun spring kit to be 10X better.
Here are links to the Boudica trigger and Wesbaun spring kit for your SW40VE;
Boudica Short Stroke Trigger for Smith & Wesson SD VE and Sigma VE Pistols > Galloway Precision

Sigma Series Trigger Spring Kit for
Smith & Wesson SW9VE SW40VE C F VE 107-021 - Wesbaun Gun Springs
 

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