True story on breaking an entering

If we don't have a duty to protect individuals then why have I been doing this job for 15 years?? I will agree that in 99% of cases we are not right there when an individual faces an immediate threat and I am a huge advocate of people having the right and ability to protect themselves. However, if we do happen to be right there when the threat occurs or are able to get there while there is still a threat then we Damn sure have a duty to do everything we can possibly do to stop the threat! I work 3rd shift. Most nights I have one other officer on shift with me, one night a week we have 3 on shift including me. We cover 425 square miles so a 30 minute response time, while not common, is not out of the realm of possibility. But rest assured, I WILL get there as fast as I can, and I WILL do everything I can do up to and including risk my own life to protect an individual from a threat. Waiting for backup isn't an option for me because most of the time there isn't any to wait for. Oh, and I don't eat doughnuts so I won't be hanging out at a dunkin doughnuts on the other side of town!

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Totally agree! Failure to do so would have been a dereliction of duty and a violation of my moral compass! I did 27 years protecting those who were unable to protect themselves!
A "moral compass" isn't:
  • enforceable in a court of law.
  • a time machine.
  • a matter transporter.
  • a "raise dead fully" spell.

The good intentions of strangers miles away are protection from nothing. They're certainly no protection from the likes of Hays and Komisarjevsky.

Protect yourself or don't get protected at all.
 
A big part of my job years ago was to chase alarms. Now this was as a lockheed guard. Its a huge plant. Even so, at any given time or area a guard was probley no more than maybe 3 or 4 hundered yards away from any spot in the factory. We had a 6 min. response time. That was set up by federal goverment security standards. Techinaly, a certain number of late responds and the company could lose a contract! We were tested at least monthly in many areas. When we got a call you had to hit the deck running to make it. Now that was probley a maximum of maybe you being like within 300 yards away. Of course maybe I might be giveing another guard a john break on a gate or lobby I couldnt close untill he got back. Stop and think how long it might be when a cop finaly gets a radio call, he might be sitting in the john at a filling station two miles away in town, maybe you might live 10 miles out of town? The point is a cop or nobody else can save your butt when something comes down when you need help NOW, not five or 15 minuets later!
 
The definition of self defense is to defend one's self. Do it.
 
A big part of my job years ago was to chase alarms. Now this was as a lockheed guard. Its a huge plant. Even so, at any given time or area a guard was probley no more than maybe 3 or 4 hundered yards away from any spot in the factory. We had a 6 min. response time. That was set up by federal goverment security standards. Techinaly, a certain number of late responds and the company could lose a contract! We were tested at least monthly in many areas. When we got a call you had to hit the deck running to make it. Now that was probley a maximum of maybe you being like within 300 yards away. Of course maybe I might be giveing another guard a john break on a gate or lobby I couldnt close untill he got back. Stop and think how long it might be when a cop finaly gets a radio call, he might be sitting in the john at a filling station two miles away in town, maybe you might live 10 miles out of town? The point is a cop or nobody else can save your butt when something comes down when you need help NOW, not five or 15 minuets later!
When I lived in Fremont, Ohio in the '90s, a couple of guys were (illegally) fishing from a railroad bridge over the river. Predictably, a train came before they could get off the bridge. One jumped off the bridge and into the river. His elderly father dove under the train.

The old man wasn't seriously injured, but the train couldn't be moved until it was jacked up and the old man removed from underneath it.

In the meantime, since the train was stopped at ALL of the level crossings that connected one side of town with the other, Fremont was effectively cut in two. I was downtown eating lunch when all of this happened and was unable to go home.

What would have happened if somebody on my side of town would have needed "protection" and all of the cops were on the OTHER side of the tracks? Exactly the same thing as if the train had never been invented. They would have been ON THEIR OWN.
 
Unfortunatly, but understandable, most cops get to a scene to just take reports. Its not their fault in the least, just a matter of physics. Thats why besides whats in the secound amendment, we need to be armed for our own personnal safety. No sane BG is going to pull off a crime in front of a cop. Probley the average cop hasnt seen a actual real time crime being pulled anymore than a citizen has and probley less as he is in uniform.
 
I read on the internet that police have no duty to protect anyone and it leaves me wondering what I did for 30 years. Not only was it in my oath of office, it was written on almost everything in print w/i the agency. As to no ability to protect anyone other than ourselves I always guessed that is why we were issued weapons and trained. As a matter of fact I used my weapon to protect someone that did not have the ability to protect himself at the time.

Frankly, I find this kind of thing insulting to every cop that ever put on a uniform and worked a shift anywhere!

Old Cop.............this issue was taken all the way to the United States Supreme Court.

The outcome was - - The Police Have No Obligation To Protect You..........

If possible the police will come to your rescue but they are obligated to do so. And, based on that the self-defense folks just put that up front. Many times the police are too far away; they are spread too thin at that point in time; etc. Just do not try to get a lawyer and sue the police for not saving you.
 
...they just don't do it by protecting people as INDIVIDUALS from the immediate threat of deadly force.

Any claim to the contrary is errant nonsense.

I agree. Even having family in law enforcement at 3:00 am in the morning with someone kicking on the door, I reach for my 45 Colt, not for the telephone to call my brother or to call 911.
Arresting the criminal after he murders me and my family is fine and good, but does not keep me breathing.:D
 
Arresting the criminal after he murders me and my family is fine and good, but does not keep me breathing.:D
And nobody knows that better than that doctor in Connecticut who lost his whole family.

Of course Bloomberg no doubt considers that an optimal outcome, since the victim(s) didn't use a gun to "escalate the violence". After all, one of them might have accidentally gotten shot...
 
First, let me say that I completely support the men and women who take the oath to "protect and serve" and admire them for their bravery. Second, I'm not going to get into the discussion of whether they are "required" by law to protect individuals. The bottom line is this: the work of police officers (and policing in general) is 90% of the time reactive rather than proactive. Their role is more of a deterrent (before a crime) and investigation (after a crime), but not so much protection during a crime. That is why it is so important for citizens to have the ability to protect themselves.
 
I'm amazed at the hatred for police officers. Makes me sick. Sort of reminds me of europeans that bash the U.S. military. Next time you get hemmed up, call Sweden. Self defense is a right and a responsibility, no reason to insult LEO. Totally uncalled for.
BTW a whole lot of the crime you don't have to deal with is because of LEO.
 
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Self defense is a right and a responsibility, no reason to insult LEO.
Anybody who considers documented fact an "insult" has problems dealing with reality.

Life is full of harsh realities, none of which are affected in any way by anyone's feelings about them.
 
I'm amazed at the hatred for police officers. Makes me sick. Sort of reminds me of europeans that bash the U.S. military.

I don't see any LEO bashing at all. I think we all agree that cops are great, we need them and admire what they do for us every day. They are brave men and women that put their lives on the line for others.

But they probably won't be in your bedroom at 2am when a bad guy breaks down the door. Unless you are a cop or are married to one. So barring those circumstances, we can only depend on ourselves for self-defense.

I can love my local PD and sheriff deputies all I want, but they aren't with me 24/7 like my sidearm is.
 
But they probably won't be in your bedroom at 2am when a bad guy breaks down the door. Unless you are a cop or are married to one. So barring those circumstances, we can only depend on ourselves for self-defense.

Or unless your wife is a cute barmaid and you're out of town at your annual Gunsight or Thunder Ranch vacation....Could happen.....
 
We had two drugged out kids drive into our house. The passenger was teaching his 16 yer old girlfriend how to drive daddy's truck. They came down the street and turned into our driveway, bounced off the side of my truck and took out the outside wall of the one car garage. I was sitting on the couch inside which was next to the other wall of the garage holding my <1 year old son, if they had hit that side of the garage they would have taken us out.
It took the police 30 minutes to get there, the kid and GF were able to walk down to the dad's house and change clothes to get rid of the smell.
Afterward the dads insurance company called us and I started to ask how they were going to take care of my stuff and the guy said he still had to find out if the dad had given them permission or not. I knew then we were screwed and we got a latter later stating the father didn't give them permission so they weren't liable for the damages. Cost my insurance company $10k and me $500 for two deductibles. I left a message with the police liaison asking why they weren't charged for not having insurance since they weren't covered by the fathers insurance and for giving false information to the police. They were never charged as far as I could tell searching the online records.
Thats how well protected we were.
 
I read on the internet that police have no duty to protect anyone and it leaves me wondering what I did for 30 years. Not only was it in my oath of office, it was written on almost everything in print w/i the agency. As to no ability to protect anyone other than ourselves I always guessed that is why we were issued weapons and trained. As a matter of fact I used my weapon to protect someone that did not have the ability to protect himself at the time.

Frankly, I find this kind of thing insulting to every cop that ever put on a uniform and worked a shift anywhere!

They are speaking in a legal sense.

If you FAILED to deliver aid to someone who needed it or could not carry out your duties you cannot be held liable.

The Supreme Court of the USA ruled on this 20-30 years ago now on a case where police failed to deliver services. And somene died.

Police do protect the public, they just cannot promise to deliver a specific member of the public their own personal safety. Otherwise there would be no crime right?

Its not insulting. Its true however.
 
I'm amazed at the hatred for police officers. Makes me sick. Sort of reminds me of europeans that bash the U.S. military. Next time you get hemmed up, call Sweden. Self defense is a right and a responsibility, no reason to insult LEO. Totally uncalled for.
BTW a whole lot of the crime you don't have to deal with is because of LEO.

No its because of the system we have established. But frankly, most police work is not deterent unless it is proactive. My brother works in probation and keeping the malcontents in the system and under watch or in jail is a large part of reducing crime. These people will steal, rape, rob, hurt, fight, molest or whatever again. Habitual criminals don't stop.

On the beat officers are only a part of the system and frankly, their deterence is only when they magically appear.
 
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