Trust CS9 With My Life???

surveyor47

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I purchased a used police CS9 several years ago and have carried it frequently. On the range it has never failed in any way, no jams, no failures to feed, no failures to extract. Every time the trigger is pulled, the gun goes bang. Accuracy is excellent. Typically 3" groups at 25 yards with 124 grain ammo.

It my one semi-auto that has never jammed on me. Yet, my gun dealer (who sold me the thing, didn't like it then and doesn't like it now)says that "I should never trust a S&W semi-auto; that Smith does not know how to produce a decent semi-auto; that it will fail me when I need it most. Talking with him, these guns start out ok, but start having serious problems as they wear and never get fully rectified.

Yes, I love my CZs and I think they are a better gun overall, but I dont see much point in switching from a gun that is reliable for me to another gun, even though the design is better in several respects (but not as good in others), such as the CZ Rammi.

Opinions.
 
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I purchased a used police CS9 several years ago and have carried it frequently. On the range it has never failed in any way, no jams, no failures to feed, no failures to extract. Every time the trigger is pulled, the gun goes bang. Accuracy is excellent. Typically 3" groups at 25 yards with 124 grain ammo.

It my one semi-auto that has never jammed on me. Yet, my gun dealer (who sold me the thing, didn't like it then and doesn't like it now)says that "I should never trust a S&W semi-auto; that Smith does not know how to produce a decent semi-auto; that it will fail me when I need it most. Talking with him, these guns start out ok, but start having serious problems as they wear and never get fully rectified.

Yes, I love my CZs and I think they are a better gun overall, but I dont see much point in switching from a gun that is reliable for me to another gun, even though the design is better in several respects (but not as good in others), such as the CZ Rammi.

Opinions.
 
Never take advice on a product from those who sell the product.
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Consumers are your best source for accurate and reliable information, and there are plenty of them on this forum.

The S&W 3rd Generation auto design (includes your CS-9) is one of the most reliable ones ever made. The CS series, however, is part of their budget series and does not have the aethetics or ergonomics of their premium line.
 
But I'm sure that your dealer would be happy to SELL you something to replace that POS S&W, right?
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Gun dealers are about as bad a source of good information as the gun rags.

Fret not.
 
Your CS9 is the norm not an exception. I have been shooting 3rd generation S&W's for 20 years and never had a malfunction with any of them. That is more than I can say about alot of other makes that I have owned.
 
Trust CS9 With My Life???

I do, but that's just me.

Of course, I also maintain my pistols, which means inspecting them during proper cleaning, after shooting them, and cleaning them before resuming carrying them.

Improper maintenance, including using excessive amounts of solvents/CLP's during cleaning, and then excessively lubricating (especially in the wrong locations) them, can potentially introduce more 'problems' than some folks might suspect.

I've watched folks literally drench their pistols in solvent, and/or CLP, and then wonder why they experienced light strikes when the firing pin channels became excessively fouled with wet or semi-wet sludge, grunge, debris and mystery crap which interfered with their firing pin's freedom of movement, and the normal functioning of the firing pin spring. I've seen extractor recesses become excessively fouled by liquids, too.

As a bit of trivia, in S&W 9mm & .40 S&W metal-framed pistols the bottom of the extractor recess in the slide is 'open' via a thin 'slot' visible on the bottom of the slide, to the right side of the stripper (or pick-up) rail. This open machined slot, as well as all around the outside of the actual extractor, on the right side of the slide, is where excessive and unnecessary liquids can be introduced into the extractor slot recess.

I was watching a fellow earnestly cleaning his issued 9mm pistol the other day, and saw he was using way too much solvent to 'scrub' his pistol with a brush. Before he reassembled his pistol I suggested he use a nearby air compressor (which we have available for such purposes) and point the nozzle up under the slide, directly at the exposed slot under the extractor. For some reason he appeared genuinely surprised by the amount of black liquid that was repeatedly blown out all around his extractor with successive applications of the air nozzle.
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Unfortunately, it's not as easy to blow out the firing pin channel, so it's a better idea to avoid introducing excessive and undesired liquids around the firing pin hole in the breech face (point the breech face muzzle down, so gravity can help keep liquids from entering the hole, too), as well as around the rear of the firing pin, the safety/decocker assembly body (on the sides as well as the bottom, where it rotates around the rear of the firing pin) and around the metal & nylon plungers in the bottom of the slide.

Unlike the Beretta pistol, though, it's relatively simple for a S&W armorer to remove the firing pin assembly and clean everything out. I do it for a lot of our folks at the cleaning table while they're cleaning the rest of their pistol.

I've been carrying issued and personally owned S&W TDA pistols for about 16 years, and I've been an armorer for many of those years. I've always been very impressed with the quality and reliability of S&W TDA pistols, even the early '3rd generation' pistols, and even when abused by cops. The increasingly newer production models are even better.

Granted, they're no more perfect than any other manufacturer's pistols, but their quality control and finish can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with any other manufacturer of quality service pistols when it comes to similar price ranges, and their customer service is pretty much an industry 'standard'. I've heard the management of a L/E firearms dealer (for two different major firearms manufacturers) easily and unabashedly admit that S&W's customer service is the best in the industry. I won't presume to disagree ...

I happen to prefer to replace the short, flat-wound, single recoil springs in my CS pistols sooner than in my other pistols, but that's just me. We were told in the last couple of armorer's classes that S&W now recommends replacing recoil & magazine springs in L/E service pistols every 5,000 rounds, or every 5 years, whichever occurs first ... unless, of course, an armorer encounters an apparent spring-related problem sooner.

I tend to replace my CS recoil springs sooner than that, around 800 rounds, give or take, simply because I feel the subcompact pistols are subjected to a bit more of a beating than the larger models, especially with the shorter recoil springs. I'm probably being a lot more conservative than a lot of other armorers/owners/users of the CS series ... and I freely acknowledge that ... but recoil springs are really inexpensive, and I consider it relatively cheap insurance to help reduce the expected wear and tear encountered in normal usage. It makes me feel better, if nothing else. I replace my magazine springs in the little CS pistols sooner than the 5,000 round recommendation, but not as often as I replace the recoil springs.
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I think the CS9 is an outstanding subcompact 9mm defensive pistol, presuming the user/owner properly maintains it. I actually prefer it to my CS45 for a few reasons, although I've put a lot more rounds through my CS45. Matter of fact, I don't think I've exceeded 2,000 rounds through my CS9, although I've more than doubled that number in several of my other pistols.

In recent years I've found myself carrying my CS9 & G26 more often than my 3913 & SW99c, but not as often as my 642 J-frame, and all for reasons of ease of concealment when it comes to some various carry methods, especially when it comes to personal comfort regarding off-duty weapons and various activities. I'll admit I'm a bit lazy when it comes to 'dressing around' a full-size off-duty weapon on my own time nowadays, especially in warmer weather, although I'm not lazy when it comes to practicing and maintaining my skills with all of the various compact & subcompact weapons I chose to carry.

My CS9 is easier to shoot rapidly and accurately than my 642 ...

My G26 offers me a slight recoil management and controllability advantage compared to the CS9 ... from the perspective of a slightly 'slower', softer 'feeling' felt recoil ... but the CS9 offers me a preferable trigger design, since I prefer TDA triggers, and hence the CS9 offers me a slight accuracy advantage over the G26. Also, the overall slightly smaller profile of the CS9, compared to my G26, actually makes for a small advantage when it comes to some of my preferred carry methods. FWIW, the slide cycling of the CS9 'feels' faster, which makes it feel as though I'm coming back on target faster.

Perception is such an interesting thing, though, and can easily vary from one person to the another.

My 3913 & SW99c are both a bit easier for me to shoot rapidly and accurately than my CS9 (or G26), although when I can take my time I can shoot the CS9 as accurately as either. It's the recoil management and controllability advantages of the 3913 & SW99c that seem to make it easier for me to experience an advantage with them over the little CS9, especially while engaging multiple targets, and/or during movement.

I feel the same way about the excellent, but discontinued, 6906 pistols. I really liked the issued 6906's I carried for several years, and estimated I fired more than 45,000 rounds through one of them. Great pistols, and someday I'd like to find a little-used 6906 of late-production vintage (with the rounded trigger guard, MIM hammer/trigger and wider barrel tab).

I'll finish this rambling post by saying that once I had finally gotten around to ordering my own CS9, and had spent some time at the range with it, I was kicking myself for not having bought one sooner.

The only other defensive handgun that ever made me feel that way was my 642.
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While I'm sure there are some very nice, knowledgeable folks working at gunstores and the sale counters of ranges which also sell firearms, I learned long ago to mostly discount the expertise and recommendations of gunstore clerks, range staff, cops and a lot of 'experts'.

I'm nobody's expert, but I can mostly figure out what I like, and what I'm prepared to believe from other people, especially when based upon my own observations and experiences.

I'm even skeptical about some of my own opinions, sometimes.
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Just my thoughts. Dunno any definitive answers, though ...
 
Ummm...

Any gun shop owner who generalizes to that extent should probably not be trusted about ANY opinion he has.

More to the point, I've owned 3 S&W semiautos in my lifetime: A used 3913, which never failed; a Model 41, which wouldn't feed reliably and I sold; and my current Model 4586, which has about 200 rounds through it with no problems.

I've owned and carried a variety of handguns for more than a deacde and trust a S&W 3rd gen. semiauto more than any other semiautomatic, except maybe a Browning Hi Power, which I put in the same category of superb reliablity.

Carry the CS9.
 
If your gun works and you shoot it well, ignore the dealer. The trick is to find something that fits your hand and points naturally. Some of the S & W autos are the best in this regard. Reliability in the 9mm 3rd generation pistols is very good and you should not have any problems. Run 200 or so of your carry loads through the gun to make sure it will function. The CS9 rivals the Kahr in size and is a neat little pistol.

Some claim the 9mm is inadequate for defense but I'd rather go to a fight with a good shooter carrying a 9mm than a poor shooter carrying a Glock 14 shot .45.
 
If it goes bang, it did it's job. If it never fails to go bang, then it will never fail to do it's job.

I have a new CS45. So far I have put 500 rounds, three different brands, through it before cleaning it. It loaded the 500th round and fired it as well as it did the first. My father's expensive Beretta would have been sticking the slide long before the 500th round.
 
I heard the same crap about my 3913 at the county range at qual time. The gun guru's Glock 22's jammed ,3913 ran like a top ,almost 1000 rounds with no malfunctions. My 4506-1 has never malfunctioned either. Gunstore commando's only praise what the gunrags tell them to IMHO. Regards 18DAI.
 
surveyor47:

Carry the gun that you feel confident will go "bang" and is comfortable concealed. I enjoy shooting a variety of guns including CZs but choose to carry a S&W 6906.


Fastbolt;

As usual, your explanation was an excellent reference for us all.

Question: What do you use to clean the firing pin channel? A dry Q-tip and then blow it out with compressed air to be sure?
 
Tony S45,

Yes, I use a quality Q-tip (I hate it when one allows unraveling of the swab too easily) to wipe out the channel, inspect the channel (using a light, if necessary) and then sometimes use an air compressor.

Depends on how much crap, liquid sludge and goo I come across. There have been occasional instances when I removed the rear sight base and cleaned out the plunger holes, too.

I always enjoy inspecting a pistol which has a slight 'dusting' of light carbon inside the firing pin channel, and everything is bone-dry inside it. It's always a pleasure to inspect and service a pistol used by someone who actually knows how to clean and maintain one.

One time after I cleaned out someone's firing pin channel ... after it had become so contaminated that the firing pin & spring were virtually embedded within a miniature La Brea Tar Pit, which finally caused no firing pin strikes evident on the primer ... I watched them start to clean their pistol after they finished successfully test-firing it.

Naturally, when they immediately started squirting and slathering solvent ALL over their slide, I became rather vocal ...
 
The major categories of lies in this world are are:
1. Little lies.
2. Big Lies.
3. Statistics.
4. EVERYTHING THAT A SALESMAN SAYS.
 
Originally posted by surveyor47:
I purchased a used police CS9 several years ago and have carried it frequently. On the range it has never failed in any way, no jams, no failures to feed, no failures to extract. Every time the trigger is pulled, the gun goes bang. Accuracy is excellent. Typically 3" groups at 25 yards with 124 grain ammo.

You have just described EVERY 3rd generation S&W pistol I have ever had the pleasure to have known. Mine act the same way. No failures, goes bang with every trigger pull. What more could you ask for? I'd say the guy is full of it, and just wants to part you from your money.
 
This sounds like a GLOCKHOLE I work with who was going on the other day about how crappy S&W triggers were to a group of co-workers. Of course I had to point out that he hadn't really shot any S&W's. Everyone laughed, except him
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I assume ANY firearm I may need for self defense COULD fail. I fully trust no mechanical device.
 
My CS9 has had at least 2500+ rounds through it. If anything, it may be in need of a bit of maintenence by a S&W armorer, basically new springs. This is the gun that got me interested enough in the 9mm to buy a CZ in the first place. Anyone who says the 9mm is inaccurate is crazy, cant shoot or hasn't shot a decent gun. I own 2 9mms, the CS9 and a CZ75B SA (single action only). The CZ is really really accurate. I bought it used and all that it needed was a new recoil spring, which fixed all that ailed it.
 
That guy who talked to you is on 'crack' and does not know his head from his other region.

My 6946 started life as a police gun and I picked it up a little while ago used. I have put 2500 rounds through mine with not one problem with any ammo I have shot through it. I have not put a dime into it just a bunch of extra mags.

Enjoy your CS9 and don't let anyone tell you any different!
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No he isnt a Glockhole, he is a Kimberhole. If it ain't 45ACP, its no good. I like the 45 as much as the next guy, but Im not going to buy a gun that is impossible to carry discreetly or safely. I have a problem with Glock & Glock clones, because the only thing keeping that thing from inadvertently going off is the holser. Id sooner carry a locked and cocked 1911 than a Glock. I LIKE all the safetys on the CS9. I KNOW that it isnt going to go off accidently. The only problem with that gun is the 9mm Luger. Id much rather carry a CS45, but I have what I have and it works.
 

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