Trust CS9 With My Life???

I have carried a bunch of pistols & revolvers over the last 40 or so years. First on my list is the BHP, and after that just about any Smith 3rd gen pistol, and just about any Sig. They all will work as well as you take care of them. Of course the Colts figure in there also, and the Berettas and.........
 
I have carried and shot a CS 40 for five years. I have never had a ounce of trouble with it. It is truly a great little pistol.
 
Originally posted by suda:
I have carried and shot a CS 40 for five years. I have never had a ounce of trouble with it. It is truly a great little pistol.

Same as me but a CS45. Great little gun...as reliable as they come.
 
Thanks Guys,
Funny, but it seems to me that a gun that goes off every time you pull the trigger and usually hits the middle area of the target over a course of thousands of rounds of ammo ought to be considered reliable. I dont know where my dealer is getting his information about these S&W semi-autos. Ive had infrequent jams in my CZs (that he likes selling) but never in my CS9. Granted that CZ has a better design, material construction and quality control than 90% of the guns out there. But a jam is a jam.

I think the issue is that he really doesnt like the 9mm. Neither does a friend who is a LEO, who thinks Im absolutely nuts to carry a 38 Special or a 9mm Luger. My gun must be concealed. The bigger the gun, the more difficult it is to hide and carry conveniently. The CS9 is right on the edge of being too large and heavy, but it works for me.
 
Originally posted by surveyor47:
Granted that CZ has a better design, material construction and quality control than 90% of the guns out there. But a jam is a jam.
QUOTE]

S&W Third Gen get much less respect than they deserve while other brands get much more respect than they deserve. The latest S&W products will go head-to-head with any other manufacturer including CZ. S&W have their own forging equipment and have forgotten more about metal, metal treatment and machining than most other companies ever knew. A better design that does not function as well is not a better design.
 
I dont understand why S&W 3rd Generation Autos dont get respect. The ones Ive shot consistently went bang and hit the target. I hear people rant about hating S&W autos, but I have never observed what they rant about.
 
Man, I just had to chime in on this one. Everyone has already said everything better then I could, but here is my .02. A personal protection pistol needs to be as reliable as possible. In my experience the only real criteria for reliability is one's personal experience with a specific pistol. I have owned a number of semi auto pistols that were not reliable and yet there are people who will defend those guns based upon the brand or supposed brand history. I read reviews in gun rags where they shoot some new pistol and at the end they will say it functioned flawlessly, except for a few FTF's, SAY WHAT! I read posts about new guns that either need different magazine springs or recoil springs or feed ramps polished to (hopefully) make them reliable. I do not spend much time trying to "make" any gun reliable, not if I plan on carrying it.

Every Smith that I have ever owned was completely reliable, new or used. Every Glock that I have ever owned was completely reliable, new or used. That does not mean that either brand cannot have malfunctions, but if I put a few thousand rounds of mixed ammo through a gun without a glitch, I deem that gun reliable. It doesn't matter what some hack says.
 
Fastbolt,
Good post. I am guilty sometimes of using too much CLP when cleaning my guns. I just cleaned the firing pin channel in my 910S, and removed some CLP and crud. One question for you, how do you clean under the extractor if you don't have an air compressor? I have been using the rubber hose from a spray can of CLP. This gets some crud out but can leave a lot of lubricant under the extractor.
As far as S&W pistols, I find them to be very reliable.
 
MR.G,
A portable air compressor is obviously best, and they make some affordable "home" models (although make sure you aren't spraying moisture into anything
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).

Lacking that, though, I've sometimes used our tank cleaner, or a 'Gunscrubber'-type aerosol cleaner ... using very brief, limited squirts, carefully directed "up" into the extractor recess, with the slide angled muzzle-down so nothing runs toward the plungers, manual safety assembly or rear of the firing pin. Probably not a good idea to 'freeze' the metal and cause condensation. I also often use canned air from my son's computer equipment supplies
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Avoiding introducing excessive solvents and lubricants into that area is a good way to prevent them from becoming 'trapped' inside there and accumulating fouling and crud.

I've removed the occasional broken extractor from well-used S&W 9mm pistols that were anywhere from 10-15+ years old, and found anywhere from a nasty accumulation of congealed, sometimes semi-wet gunk that was apparently the result of introducing excessive liquids to the recesses ... to bone-dry recesses with only a light coating/dusting of carbon fouling inside.

While not initally a 'fan' of S&W pistols before I was required to start carrying one about 1990, I became very impressed over the following years by how well they performed when carried by the average cop ... which pretty much is the very description of "abuse", I'd hazard.
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I now own and carry more of them than any other brand.

Funny how that worked out ...
 
skeeterbait, better late than never....I have 3 Berettas that have digested several thousands of rounds without ONE hiccup.
In a day or two I will be getting a 908S, which has the straight backstrap I favor, like my Vertec Berettas, and I can only hope it does as well as they do.
If Beretta made much of anything (read: smaller with quality) except the 92/96/ninety-two
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series, I am not sure I would get the 908S.
But I love S&W quality and am sure it will be a great little gun.
Sorry your relative had a bad experience with a Beretta. Such experiences are very rare.
 
Ok, we seem to have settled the launch platform as ok, but what about the payload? I have real qualms about the 9mm as a defensive cartridge. It seems to be inherently more reliable in some guns than the 40 S&W. If need be the 9mm is an easy cartridge to reload. The 40 tends to suffer from pressure spikes and kabooms, probably due to bullet setback during firning, so reloading the 40 seems a dubious proposition . The 40 seems in the same stopping power class as the 45ACP. Accuracy with 40S&W seems so-so, it is primarily a stopper and one I find much more difficult to shoot than a 45. There is no question of the 45ACPs stopping power, ease of reloading or accuracy. Great cartridge. Given launch platforms of equal size, the 45 is the way to go.

The crux of the problem is maximum stopping power in an easily concealable package. Were it not for the 40S&Ws 2 strikes, fair reliability & a dubious proposition to reload, I would go for it. For me, its back to the 9mm vs 45.

Ammo seems crucial in the 9mm. I dont trust 115 grain JHPs, due to low sectional density and consequential low penetration. The 124 grain seems most accurate in my gun and seems similar to a light loaded 357 or hot 38 in a similar bullet weight. The 147 grain JHP is not accurate in m gun and seems to give up too much velocity, gaining little on the 124 grain.

My carry ammo is 135 grain Federal Hydrashocks. Accurate & reliable in my gun.

Opinions?

Opinions?
 
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
Trust CS9 With My Life???

I think the CS9 is an outstanding subcompact 9mm defensive pistol, presuming the user/owner properly maintains it. I actually prefer it to my CS45 for a few reasons, although I've put a lot more rounds through my CS45. Matter of fact, I don't think I've exceeded 2,000 rounds through my CS9, although I've more than doubled that number in several of my other pistols.
I know this is a year old thread, but Fastbolt I'm wondering what the reasons you alluded to are for your preferring the CS9 to the CS45. Thanks.
 
I will just add my two cents and say that this gun dealer needs to find a different line of work. Sounds like he talks out of his 6th point of contact. Based on my years of experience and thousands of rounds fired out of 8 different S&W semi-auto's, I will tell you I've had 0, repeat 0 malfunctions. My daily carry piece is a 945 Pc 3.25''. I do trust my life to this weapon because I know what it can do and more importantly, I take very good care of it and I practice, practice, practice. If you feel as comfortable with your weapon, then don't listen to someone who seems to not like S&W semi's. Go with what you know!
 
Whoa ... new life for a thread almost a year and a half old ...

TDA stands for Traditional Double Action, which in a semiauto pistol usually means that the first shot is fired with a double action trigger stroke and the subsequent shots are fired with a single action trigger stroke (fired from the hammer-cocked condition).

As far as why I prefer the CS9 to the CS45?

It primarily has to do with the way the CS9's grip profile fits my hand much better than the CS45's, and the controllability of the 9mm cartridge in the CS9 offers me a noticeable advantage compared to shooting .45 ACP in the CS45.

Also, like some of the other diminutive .45 ACP platforms out there, I've always thought that the CS45 still demands a lot more of the shooter than the larger size platforms.

Stuffing a big cartridge into a small package can introduce some potential for functioning issues unless everything happens just right. Decreased slide mass & slide travel, increased felt recoil & slide velocity ... and then you have a large diameter cartridge that has to be stripped from the magazine lips, fed & chambered during the shorter and faster forward portion of the slide's movement. For me, the CS45 slide typically snaps forward into battery with just the slightest hesitation, sort of a 'ka-thunk' (which becomes more pronounced as the recoil spring becomes worn), while the CS9 snaps into battery with an abrupt 'thunk'. I guess I could describe both models as 'brisk' when it comes to returning to battery, but the CS45 is just a bit less so ...

I can 'break' the angle of my wrist support and/or relax my grip and sometimes induce a 'limp-wrist' malfunction with the CS45. I haven't had the same experience with the CS9.

FWIW, I've found the slightly larger 457/4513TSW platform to be more 'forgiving' than the CS45 in this regard.

If I had to choose between my CS45 and my 4513TSW, keeping only one of them, I'd choose the 4513TSW (or a 457S).

As it is, I'll keep trying to wear out my CS45 before I think about getting rid of it. I just carry the CS9 much more often.
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Still don't claim to have 'the answers', though.
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I very recently purchased a blue (used) CS9. This is my first S&W auto. I handled a Walther P99c, a Glock 26, and a Kahr CW9. The Smith fit my hand the best.

I am looking forward to properly cleaning and learning all I can about this gun. Any suggestions on books/videos?

I will be testing the reliability, and if it passes, I will be trusting it to defend myself and family, if necessary.

wyo-man
 
FWIW, in my case I used the demonstrated reliability of my CS9 (and late production 3913) as the standard I wanted my then-new G26 to meet.

If I were to use my CS9 as the standard, on a scale of 1-10, then my G26 has achieved a 10 on feed reliability, but only an 8 when it comes to ejection consistency. I can cause my G26 to throw empty cases at my face, or even to my left upon occasion (right-handed), if I allow my wrist and/or grip to relax a bit. My CS9 has shown itself to be more tolerant, in my hands, of such issues.

On the other hand, the captive double recoil spring system of the subcompact G26 seems to remain strongly tensioned for much longer than the CS9's single, flat coil recoil spring. Of course, the same recoil spring assembly is used in the harder recoiling Glock subcompact calibers, too, such as the .40 S&W G27 & the 357SIG G33, so that makes sense. The stronger recoil spring assembly and the polymer frame seem to allow for some lessening of felt recoil in the Glock G26, compared to the CS9, too.

In a way it's too bad that S&W dropped the CS9 (and CS45) from the commercial catalog and only kept them available for LE sales. I think they were a milestone in S&W's response to the lawful concealment handgun market in the way of semiauto pistols. Probably not to the same extent of the 3913 series, but then the 3913 was more of a ground-breaking release for a factory-production pistol back then.

On the other hand, the traditional double action (TDA) design has been giving more and more ground to the DAO-type designs, especially in the LE market, and the little M&P Compact 9mm ought to appeal strongly to that market segment. Probably more so than the CS9 ever did. The pending M&P .45 ACP compact ought to attract the interest of the folks who were interested in the 457/4513TSW series, too. Then, there's the consideration that the newer polymer-framed models generally tend to have staggered/double column magazines, instead of the single column magazines of the 9mm & .45 ACP metal-framed TDA compact pistols (the 4013TSW having a 9-rd double column magazine).

Lots of older posts on the CS series if you spend some time patiently Searching them out.
 
Thank you Fastbolt for your knowledgeable answers. I did search this forum for CS9 and that is the reason I did not hesitate on my purchase. Very friendly and knowledgeable people here. I plan to replace the recoil spring (as I do not know how many rounds have been throught it) and proceed to do my reliability tests (very similar to yours).

wyo-man
 
Congrats on your purchase.

I tend to replace my recoil springs much sooner than the normal 'recommendations' in the armorer classes. They're pretty inexpensive, all things considered. Less expensive than magazine springs, anyway. To offset the added shipping costs for such a small item I decided to order several recoil springs at a time whenever I place an order. Easier that way, and I've pretty much always got them at hand.

I especially replace the recoil springs sooner when I'm using +P & +P+ ammunition in my CS9. I carry a load we used to issue for 9mm weapons, the Winchester RA9TA, which is their 127gr T-Series +P+ load, and it generates some noticeable felt recoil. I used a couple or so boxes of the Remington 115gr +P+ LE round when I was initially breaking in my CS9, along with some Remington 124gr +P Golden Sabre loads, among other loads, and the Remington 115gr +P+ seemed to generate noticeably more felt recoil.

The bulk of my usual training & practice over the years has been done with whatever standard pressure 147gr JHP's were on the CA state contract, although since the new contract has Remington 124gr +P GS 9mm loads on it, I imagine I'll be doing more shooting with the +P loads. I also imagine I'll be going through recoil & magazine springs a bit more often, too.
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