Two more .380s, two more fails

[washerman]

I have actually been thinking a 380 revolver might be a good choice for my daughter. Taurus has a 5 shot with moon clips and Charter Arms has the Pitbull in 380 without moon clips and is a 6 shot. Don't know about any other brands.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I have actually been thinking a 380 revolver might be a good choice for my daughter. Taurus has a 5 shot with moon clips and Charter Arms has the Pitbull in 380 without moon clips and is a 6 shot. Don't know about any other brands.

While I like the 380 cartridge, I believe a LCR in 327 loaded with 32 long would be a better choice. The LCR has more ammo options, and being an owner of a pitbull much easier to load with a speed loader. I like my pit, but it is a real hassle to reload, it would be an even bigger hassle with the smaller 380 ACP case. Add to that in the case of a reload with just a few rounds in a hurry can damage the pins in the empty chambers during recoil.

 

[Rastoff]

And yet you dismiss those with tales of 100% .380 ACP reliability.

Absolutely not. In fact, I've never said that I don't believe those with such experience. I do in fact take them at their word and I believe they are telling the truth.

Even so, just because one person has a positive experience doesn't mean anyone else will. This applies to any gun. If I'm going to use it for self-defense, I'm going to test it, regardless of caliber, make, model or experience of others. If it passes my test, I'll carry it. If not, I won't. So far, no .380Auto I've used or personally witnessed being used has gone a sufficient number of rounds without a malfunction. This is just my experience. Yours may be different. By all means, use what you like.

 

[Gene L]

I think reading this there are more people who trust and like the .380 than who don't. So I wouldn't let that color my choices, especially when there are numerous reviews of various .380s and tests recorded on its performance.

Like my Interarms PPK/S in .380, it's never let me down or jammed that I can remember. Had it for 40 years or so. Very accurate and I think the round has enough punch...ballistic gel demonstrations make me believe this.

I had a .380 Bodyguard. It didn't do anything wrong, but the trigger and hammer-fired situation made it impossible for me to shoot...not the gun, but the problem was me.

I'm a certified LEO Firearms Instructor. I've seen a lot of guns fail, regardless of caliber. We held specialized classes for women who had rather shoot with other women. (Good reasons, once you think about it.) Some were armed with .25 Ravens, some with Highpoint 9mms, several Glocks, one with a Model 14. Most of them had never fired a handgun, they bought them out of fear for their own safety, not for the love of guns...what they needed was encouragement and confidence, and we gave them that. Being armed with a .25 or a 9mm Highpoint (which is what a lot of older women on fixed income could afford) is better than a harsh word to an aggressor.

I even like my .32 PPK, and don't feel unarmed when I carry it. Of course, the Sig 365 is about the same size as the PPK, weighs loaded about the same. Plastic is fantastic. But I like nostalgia. If it was good enough for James Bond, it's good enough for me.

 

[Protected One]

Fascinating thread - long, but I enjoyed going all the way through it. I'll just share my experience. I'm 78, have 16 or so handguns, and ten of them are .380's:

Browning 1911-380 Black Label
Beretta 84F Cheetah
Beretta 85F Cheetah
Beretta 86B Cheetah (tilt-up)
Ruger LCP Custom
Bersa Thunder 380
Sig Sauer P238
S&W M&P 380 EZ
Taurus Spectrum
Walther PPK/S (S&W)

They don't all get fired regularly, but they all get to the range at least once a year, followed by a thorough cleaning. I use ordinary brass-cased commercial PMC or Fiocchi or Federal 95-gr. FMJ ammo or 95-gr. reloads sold by the range. I've been well aware of the possible results of loose grip or limp-wristing automatics for many years, and I can't recall any malfunction incidents with any of my guns. I've never tried any steel or aluminum-cased ammunition in any of them. The P238 is my favorite carry gun, and I bought the 380EZ for my wife (70), who has had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands after 30 years on a GM graphic illustrator's drafting table and arthritis, which limits her hand/finger strength. She uses a two-handed grip and has no problems. We both have our CPL's and have taken several rounds of handgun refresher training.

I also have a .45 Long Colt SAA replica, a couple of wartime Walther P.38's, several 9mm Berettas, Bersa Pro 9mm, an S&W 5906 9mm, and five different .22's. Gun enthusiasts and always learning.

What do you think of the Browning Black Label?

 

[max503]

I traded off my 380 yesterday for a full-sized double stack 9mm range gun. From now on I'll just use my totally reliable J frames for concealed carry thank you very much.

 

[max503]

Absolutely not. In fact, I've never said that I don't believe those with such experience. I do in fact take them at their word and I believe they are telling the truth.

Even so, just because one person has a positive experience doesn't mean anyone else will. This applies to any gun. If I'm going to use it for self-defense, I'm going to test it, regardless of caliber, make, model or experience of others. If it passes my test, I'll carry it. If not, I won't. So far, no .380Auto I've used or personally witnessed being used has gone a sufficient number of rounds without a malfunction. This is just my experience. Yours may be different. By all means, use what you like.

^^^I couldn't have said it better.
However, I wonder how many people actually put at least 200 rounds of carry ammo through their 380 to test it for unquestioned reliability? That's my test.

 

[Walkingwolf]

^^^I couldn't have said it better.
However, I wonder how many people actually put at least 200 rounds of carry ammo through their 380 to test it for unquestioned reliability? That's my test.

I don't, it's none of my business. I only concern myself with how a firearm ammo works for me. So far I have had very good luck with the 380 in several different firearms. Personally 200 rounds is just break in some need even more before carry. But many people buy a new gun, never fire it, then carry it. Some probably cannot afford the ammo. On occasions they have used the guns successfully to defend themselves. Seems to me there was a inner city elderly woman who used a Hi Point carbine to successfully defend herself from a home invader. Hi Points are not at the top of most people's list for self defense, and I doubt she had a whole lot of rounds through it.

 

[BC38]

I traded off my 380 yesterday for a full-sized double stack 9mm range gun. From now on I'll just use my totally reliable J frames for concealed carry thank you very much.

Just curious, but what 380 was it - and did you try several or just the one?

 

[max503]

Just curious, but what 380 was it - and did you try several or just the one?

It was a Colt Pocketlite. It was the only 380 I have ever shot. I tried all kinds or factory loads as well as reloads. It worked pretty good - but once every couple hundred rounds or so it would have a hiccup. And that is too much for me, for a SD gun.

I've got other irons in the fire and I'm just not going to try another 380 at this time. There's a lot of really cool 380's out there. Personally, I like the looks of the Bersa. And people really like their LCP's. But I'm just too busy right now.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I've got a Colt Pony Pocketlite that I know was fired in self defense seven times in succession, striking the assailant four times and resulting in his expiration. There's not a gun out there that is guaranteed to fire the next time you pull the trigger. Not one. As the financial fund commercials always mention, past performance is no guarantee of future success . . .

It was a Colt Pocketlite. It was the only 380 I have ever shot. I tried all kinds or factory loads as well as reloads. It worked pretty good - but once every couple hundred rounds or so it would have a hiccup. And that is too much for me, for a SD gun.

I've got other irons in the fire and I'm just not going to try another 380 at this time.

 

[BC38]

It was a Colt Pocketlite. It was the only 380 I have ever shot. I tried all kinds or factory loads as well as reloads. It worked pretty good - but once every couple hundred rounds or so it would have a hiccup. And that is too much for me, for a SD gun.

I've got other irons in the fire and I'm just not going to try another 380 at this time. There's a lot of really cool 380's out there. Personally, I like the looks of the Bersa. And people really like their LCP's. But I'm just too busy right now.

Well, sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with the little Colt. Seems like a very small sampling to judge a caliber and all guns chambered in it, but hey, whatever trips your trigger man!

 

[max503]

I had too much money wrapped up in that Colt for it to just sit. Luckily I found a deal that let me recoup most of what I spent on it.
I still have dies and a mold and a lot of cases for the 380. I'll probably get another someday. Maybe a Ruger.

 

[Toddlars1]

Our experiences are all over the place. I have a Beretta 84 that has been absolutely reliable for 20 years. I have 2 identical Mustang Pocketlites, one is reliable, the other can't get thru one mag without a ftf. I have also had ftf's with my brother in-laws new Glock 42. Always Win or Rem 95 gr fmj. I have a few carry guns that I know are 100% reliable and those are my 442/642/637/37....etc. I would personally never trust mine or my families lives on a small 380. I would trust my Beretta but its too large for my pocket Just MHO.

 

[mrmike7189]

Kahr=$$$

The difference in size between pocket .380s and pocket 9mms are so slight that I can't understand why anyone would trust their life to such an inferior cartridge. Next time you think you can only pocket carry a .380, look at the Kahr PM9/CM9 and tell me how you can't make that work.

A Kahr goes for 500-700 bucks. I can get a S&W BG380 for 200 and it will still conceal better than a Kahr. Tried putting a S&W shield in my pocket once......couldn't get it out, too damn big!
My Bodyguard 380 has over 1,500 trouble free rounds.

 

[labworm]

I have 3 and have had no problems with any of them, keep em clean and lubricated, seems to be part of the equation.







Must comment on the Sig P238, as of now my favorite.

 

[BC38]

I have 3 and have had no problems with any of them, keep em clean and lubricated, seems to be part of the equation.







Must comment on the Sig P238, as of now my favorite.

Nice! I have the Government Model Colt myself.
Plus the previously mentioned Bersa CC380 (sorta similar to your PPK).
And the little Taurus TCP (P738).
Of the 3 the only one that has ever had any issue with any ammo was the TCP, and that was just a couple of stove-pipes during the first few mags - during the initial break in.

 

[Gene L]

Bought a .380 PPK Interarms today. Haven't shot it but it's pretty cherry. Heavy? Yes. All steel, stainless. Oh well.

 

[jkmo]

Went down to our property last weekend. Have a full steel plate and silhouette range. Wife and I put at least 80 rods of 380 down range. 3 grains of 231 with a 100 gr Berry plated bullet. Not a hiccup. 380 E Z . I carry it when I need a break from the 642. It carry's nice

 

[Echo40]

The Walther PPK/S is my favorite .380 ACP pistol of all time.

I own a Smith & Wesson manufactured model PPK/S-1 which has served as my primary carry gun since 2016 and although there are certainly newer, lighter pistols out there, it's extremely accurate and so far has honestly been 100% reliable.
Seriously, the only hang-ups I've ever experienced with it were my own fault by short stroking the slide or using out of spec ammo with substantial bullet setback that I had no business shooting in the first place.

I have since gotten a Ruger LCP which has also been 100% reliable so far, ergo I carry both with confidence.

That being said, I'm honestly surprised this thread is still going. Honestly, when a thread's whole premise is based on faulty anecdotal evidence like; "I've seen lots of novice shooters experience malfunctions with .380 pistols, ergo I'm going to assume that .380 pistols are just plain unreliable." and the thread just keeps getting bumped with such anecdotes despite all evidence to the contrary or common sense like; "If .380 pistols were actually that unreliable, then nobody would own them and they probably wouldn't even be in production anymore." why bother with it? Those of us who actually own .380 ACP pistols have actual, first-hand experience to the contrary of the Rastoff's erroneous assertions based on limp-wristing novices, so if he wants to believe they don't work and waste time cataloging every instance of failure he witnesses at the range, then that's his prerogative.
Don't bump the thread with personal anecdotes to the contrary, the thread has already been flooded with such responses and he hasn't changed his stance at all, just let it die. If you want to have a meaningful discussion in regards to the .380 ACP cartridge or pistols chambered in it, then you're better off starting a new thread.

 

[Triggernosis]

Went down to our property last weekend. Have a full steel plate and silhouette range. Wife and I put at least 80 rods of 380 down range. 3 grains of 231 with a 100 gr Berry plated bullet. Not a hiccup. 380 E Z . I carry it when I need a break from the 642. It carry's nice

Here's a holster I finished today for a 380EZ.

 

[JohnZMI]

What do you think of the Browning Black Label?

I like it - it's well-made and has never had a single malfunction of any kind; a little on the heavy side for its size (I like all-metal guns), but no more so than my PPK/S. I have a sign in my shop that says, "NO UGLY GUNS".

 

[amazingflapjack]

Charter "On Duty" 38 spl + P 12 oz's 5 shot-easy pocket carry.

 

[hardluk1]

mrmike7189 man are you over paying for kahrs , a CT380 is 300 310 bucks A cm9 50 more. Wife's older very dependable bersa 380CC sell for 250 today and we have two TCP's in the family also been very dependable and sell for 200 bucks + or . But as a hole the family carrys 9mm and larger wifes CC is a Kimber ultra daughters carry glock 19 and a pt111g2 or tcp for the smaller girl .. 380's !!! Never owned one

Not spending money on a remington /ceribus investment

 

[That One Guy]

I've been carrying a gen 1 LCP just about every day for 5-6 years now. I have 1500+ rds thru it of various types of ammo. I have only had 1 malfunction, and that was due to a squib load from a box of gun show reloads (before I knew better). When someone makes a 9mm that is just as small, convenient and reliable as my LCP, I'll gladly make the switch.

I see a lot of guys mentioning Kahr. I've had more trouble with them than any other "name brand" gun I've owned. I have a CW45 that can barely make it thru a magazine without RTB issues. Kahr even replaced the gun and the new one does the same thing. My wife has a T9 that chucked the rear sight into orbit on the first magazine. That said, my dad has a CW45 that's been 100% reliable. But my experience has soured my from ever carrying one. And that's a shame, because it's a very accurate gun and I love shooting it when it works.

 

[mrmike7189]

mrmike7189 man are you over paying for kahrs , a CT380 is 300 310 bucks A cm9 50 more. Wife's older very dependable bersa 380CC sell for 250 today and we have two TCP's in the family also been very dependable and sell for 200 bucks + or . But as a hole the family carrys 9mm and larger wifes CC is a Kimber ultra daughters carry glock 19 and a pt111g2 or tcp for the smaller girl .. 380's !!! Never owned one

Not spending money on a remington /ceribus investment

Yes Here in MA you cant touch a new PM9 for less than $599
The CM9's are not on the"approved list" yet and not available for sale. All guns have to be tested at an approved lab for them to be able to be sold here.

 

[hardluk1]

mrmike Oh so your giving retail prices for a pm9 kahr at 599 and that about right but there are gun shops on line you can buy from at discounted prices that ship to MA and pay only a ffl fee but you know that already or should .

Now since I mentioned a CM9 in my earlier post what does a CM9 sell for ?? I don't care what a PM9 sells for but your quote was normal retail !! I guess the CM was over looked .

I do know I'm not giving my good money to a ceribus investments / remmy outdoors gun companies . And 1500 rounds trouble free is not special .

 

[mrmike7189]

The CM9 is not approved for sale here yet. PM9 is approved.
MA has crazy testing,certfications that are done before a gun is approved.
$599 being retail price is just about all you can get ,unless you buy used.
The PM9 is a popular pistol and not many available for sale here. If you buy one online, the LGS/FFL here will hit you with a fee approx. $75 because you didn/t buy from them, plus the 6,25% sales tax on top. (Taxachusetts)
MA is a socialist/communist Commonwealth!

 

[Old cop]

You may have helped me w/a long standing problem w/my LCP. It seems to choke just short of 100 rounds and I assumed it was b/c the gun was getting dirty, but maybe I'm just getting tired of having this tiny gun slam into my hand. Next range trip I'm going to try things differently.

 

[fatcat3]

The Walther PPK/S is my favorite .380 ACP pistol of all time.

That being said, I'm honestly surprised this thread is still going. Honestly, when a thread's whole premise is based on faulty anecdotal evidence like; "I've seen lots of novice shooters experience malfunctions with .380 pistols, ergo I'm going to assume that .380 pistols are just plain unreliable." and the thread just keeps getting bumped with such anecdotes despite all evidence to the contrary or common sense like; "If .380 pistols were actually that unreliable, then nobody would own them and they probably wouldn't even be in production anymore." why bother with it? Those of us who actually own .380 ACP pistols have actual, first-hand experience to the contrary of the Rastoff's erroneous assertions based on limp-wristing novices, so if he wants to believe they don't work and waste time cataloging every instance of failure he witnesses at the range, then that's his prerogative.
Don't bump the thread with personal anecdotes to the contrary, the thread has already been flooded with such responses and he hasn't changed his stance at all, just let it die. If you want to have a meaningful discussion in regards to the .380 ACP cartridge or pistols chambered in it, then you're better off starting a new thread.

Why this one seems to be doing just fine?