Two more .380s, two more fails

[Cal44]

Why this one seems to be doing just fine?

I agree. If anyone considers this thread useless, boring, or based on a false premises then don't read it.

I find it interesting. I like anecdotes about other 380s I'm not familiar with.

My P238HD has performed well. Only one jam ever for me, and that with a questionable reload.

On the other hand, I let an LEO friend try it at the range and he had jams in every magazine. But he said he has always had trouble shooting very small guns. Probably a limp wristing problem. So likely many of the novice problems the op mentioned would go away with practice and training.

 

[McChemist]

S&W 380 EZ

My wife has a 380 EZ, every failure to fire/load properly is directly related to her limp grip of the pistol. She wanted to get a 9mm, but there wasn't a single one she could operate, she can barely operate the 380. That's the reason I tried to get her to stay with a revolver, she has very few problems with them, but she insists on the near endless supply of ammo with a semi auto (I load the magazines at home).

My wife likes the 380 EZ because it is easy for her to rack the slide and the single stack fits her hand. She is 5'1", has small hands and arthritis. the recoil is very slight as well. She is reasonably accurate with it. The failures were related to a loose grip on the pistol. It takes a firm grasp to ensure that the grip safety is disengaged. She can't rack my SD9 and the double stack makes the grip too big. Better to have a 380 in hand than a 9 mm that you can't operate in the safe.

 

[n c rod]

380acp failures

The 25acp, 32acp, and 380acp are marginal defensive weapons IMHO for several reasons. A lot of the guns and ammunition used are sub-standard quality to begin with. Garbage in Garbage out. If you use premium guns and ammunition you can reduce the probability of failures or you can just use enough gun for the task to begin with. Your life your choice.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

My wife's Ruger 380 XTP has never malfunctioned.

 

[Rustyt1953]

After re-reading this entire thread some of you have convinced me that I need to trade my LCP for one of these:

 

[CB3]

Better to have a 380 in hand than a 9 mm that you can't operate in the safe.

I can't operate any of my guns in my safe.

 

[Rastoff]

My wife likes the 380 EZ because it is easy for her to rack the slide...

If we were just talking about a range gun or something to have fun with, then yes, an easier to rack slide makes sense. However, when it comes to defense, everyone should pick a gun that is more reliable even if it's a little more difficult to rack the slide.

Better to have a 380 in hand than a 9 mm that you can't operate in the safe.

No sir, it's better to have a gun that works than one that doesn't. Even you have said that she's had multiple malfunctions with this gun.

 

[Imissedagain]

Out of 40 or so students I would find a 50% rate of failure with what they brought to class.
Fortunately this was beginning guitar adult night school.

Was given a bag of 380s brought back from WWII/Europe.
Beyond junk!!!
Drop them in the Cayman Trench or donate them to our local Police was my advice.

We load 380s at 115g-120g lead and jacked.
Holding on to small/short/narrow grips properly and keeping the trigger finger relaxed is an issue.

Two Sig P238s, one with longer wider grips and one OEM will go to the range this week.
Pic below is prior to palm swells etc etc.
7 round mag fits flush.
A quality 8 round mag would allow for a Colt Plus II length and the
wider grip and it's shape fit the hand better.
Pics of width etc etc ASAP so you can whittle one.

 

[max503]

I don't know what to do with all the 380 ammo, cases, dies, and bullet molds I have sitting idle since I've sold my unreliable Colt 380. I'm thinking of getting a Bersa or a used Beretta to use as a range gun because I think they look cool. Then, after a couple thousand rounds, if it is reliable, I might carry it.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

I don't know what to do with all the 380 ammo, cases, dies, and bullet molds I have sitting idle since I've sold my unreliable Colt 380. I'm thinking of getting a Bersa or a used Beretta to use as a range gun because I think they look cool. Then, after a couple thousand rounds, if it is reliable, I might carry it.

Ruger LCP II.

No complaints from me,
but it's slide doesn't rack as easily as the Shield-EZ.

 

[Farmer17]

I've owned a Keltec .380, two Taurus TCPs, two Ruger LCP's and currently a Ruger LCP II and all have been 100 percent reliable. I wear regular fit boot cut blue jeans most of the time and have muscular legs so a J-frame or 9m/m is too big and I almost wish I had the regular Ruger LCP back because the LCP II is a little fatter and not as rounded. It cracks me up how people will say the 9m/m is the ultimate defensive round and more powerful calibers don't do any better in a gunfight but something slightly less powerful is nearly worthless.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I don't know what to do with all the 380 ammo, cases, dies, and bullet molds I have sitting idle since I've sold my unreliable Colt 380. I'm thinking of getting a Bersa or a used Beretta to use as a range gun because I think they look cool. Then, after a couple thousand rounds, if it is reliable, I might carry it.

I have long owned these .380s and have no trepidation about either one:

 

[Toddlars1]

I don't know what to do with all the 380 ammo, cases, dies, and bullet molds I have sitting idle since I've sold my unreliable Colt 380. I'm thinking of getting a Bersa or a used Beretta to use as a range gun because I think they look cool. Then, after a couple thousand rounds, if it is reliable, I might carry it.

Beretta 84, great choice for the range

 

[oldiegoldie]

I don't know what to do with all the 380 ammo, cases, dies, and bullet molds I have sitting idle since I've sold my unreliable Colt 380. I'm thinking of getting a Bersa or a used Beretta to use as a range gun because I think they look cool. Then, after a couple thousand rounds, if it is reliable, I might carry it.

the Remington RM380 has alot of positive reviews and i've seen very few negatives. i have 2 of them and replaced some of the springs with the Galloway kit. installed a Viridian Reactor laser on one. they've been trouble free. very long but smooth trigger. 2 holsters...OWB by Exarchy and a pocket carry by Crossbreed.

 

[Rastoff]

I wear regular fit boot cut blue jeans most of the time and have muscular legs so a J-frame or 9m/m is too big...

I fail to see how this is even relevant. Wear a regular IWB or OWB holster and throw a shirt over it.

It cracks me up how people will say the 9m/m is the ultimate defensive round and more powerful calibers don't do any better in a gunfight but something slightly less powerful is nearly worthless.

When it comes to caliber, I couldn't agree more. The venerable .22LR defends plenty of people every year. Is the 9mm better? Probably, but shot placement trumps all.

 

[BearBio]

I had a Colt 1903 in 380 and the wife had a Bersa 380. No issues with either. Mine was a range/plinking gun and hers was EDC. Both were fed FMJs for penetration and stayed within 3" at 10 yards.

She now carries a G43 and a G19 for EDC and I have always carried a 357 or 45 acp for EDC (( now carry a G27 in 357Sig).

 

[max503]

I have long owned these .380s and have no trepidation about either one:

What is that top one?
People swear by their Rugers. I just like the styling of the larger 380's better. I may go back to a 380 as I get older and less tolerant of recoil. But I'm not there yet and still have time to shop around. Those Beretta 84's are tempting.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Max503, that is a Bersa Thunder .380.

 

[Old cop]

The LCP seems to be hit or miss. My second gen LCP has never malfunctioned in over 500 + rounds of FMJ & HP. The mag will pop out in a pocket holster, but getting a Kydex pocket holster that covered the mag button solved that. My LCPII had stove-piping issues that Ruger fixed when I sent it back, but I had a repeat of that problem after about 100 rounds so it was either getting dirty or I limp wristed it b/c my hand was starting to hurt. Either way I'll never shoot that much in a self defense situation so I'll call that good too.

 

[Rastoff]

Had another .380Auto (Sig Sauer) in class today. As the shooter tried to rack in the first round, the slide stop fell out. The owner claims it's never failed before.

I've never seen a slide stop fall out of a gun before.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Had another .380Auto (Sig Sauer) in class today. As the shooter tried to rack in the first round, the slide stop fell out. The owner claims it's never failed before.

I've never seen a slide stop fall out of a gun before.

When I was at the range a while back a guy with a Glock 19 had his slide fly off the gun and out into the range when he fired a round. The slide lock spring had broken. I still thinks Glocks are reliable, just not perfect.

Without real numbers, in pretty much any area, ad hoc data tends to be influenced by confirmation bias. Glock guys ignore Glock failures as eccentricities of the platform, but would see S&W failures as being more frequent and being evidence of some design flaw. Same thing vice versa.

 

[Rastoff]

Without real numbers, in pretty much any area, ad hoc data tends to be influenced by confirmation bias. Glock guys ignore Glock failures as eccentricities of the platform, but would see S&W failures as being more frequent and being evidence of some design flaw. Same thing vice versa.

I couldn't agree more. The problem comes when people have problems and continue to claim that they haven't. Then you're only fooling yourself.

 

[Cal44]

Had another .380Auto (Sig Sauer) in class today. As the shooter tried to rack in the first round, the slide stop fell out. The owner claims it's never failed before.

I've never seen a slide stop fall out of a gun before.

I bought a Sig P238 a while back and had the same thing happen.

Turns out it was an easy fix. Had to adjust a small spring that held the slide stop in place.

Did the adjustment myself, and never had the problem again.

My P238 has been flawless since this problem was fixed -- with several different kinds of ammo.

I started a thread on this issue over on SIGTALK forum people can look up for more details.

This is a design and QA flaw of this gun, IMHO, but not directly related to it being a 380. In fact, this also happens some times with the P938 -- the 9mm version of the same gun.

 

[sigp220.45]

This thread has convinced me my 100 year old Colt Pocket Hammerless
.380 is broken, as it resolutely refuses to malfunction.

I have another one that was a pain due to a badly corroded chamber. A new barrel fixed that one.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Had another .380Auto (Sig Sauer) in class today. As the shooter tried to rack in the first round, the slide stop fell out. The owner claims it's never failed before.

I've never seen a slide stop fall out of a gun before.

I bought a Sig P238 a while back and had the same thing happen.
....
This is a design and QA flaw of this gun, IMHO, but not directly related to it being a 380. In fact, this also happens some times with the P938 -- the 9mm version of the same gun.

Great example of confirmation bias. @Rastoff doesn't think .380's are reliable. He had a P238 fail in his class, so it goes into his "those darn .380's bucket" when it really a common mode failure for that gun design, regardless of caliber. Not a criticism of @Rastoff. Easy thing to fall into.

 

[RoyM52]

when you miniaturize, some things are not able to be incorporated in the same way , The detent /plunger is one that fell to the size constrictions. Ounce you know to pay attention to the spring and if everything is working, then the problem is solved. The spring holding the take down was not a design flaw, but part of the design to minimal size and dimensions. One of the reasons that a 9mm can be this small.

 

[Rastoff]

Turns out it was an easy fix. Had to adjust a small spring that held the slide stop in place.

I noticed that spring when I reassembled the shooters gun. I was wondering if that might be it, but was more concerned with getting the required shooting done. Since it wasn't a safety issue, we pressed on. I will contact the owner and see if I can fix it for them.

This is a design and QA flaw of this gun, IMHO, but not directly related to it being a 380. In fact, this also happens some times with the P938 -- the 9mm version of the same gun.

Thanks for the info. Several on this thread have commented on how their Sigs were perfect.

Great example of confirmation bias. @Rastoff doesn't think .380's are reliable. He had a P238 fail in his class, so it goes into his "those darn .380's bucket" when it really a common mode failure for that gun design, regardless of caliber. Not a criticism of @Rastoff. Easy thing to fall into.

I understand exactly what you're saying Ziggy. In fact, I work hard to not fall into this kind of bias. If I had seen three or four .380Autos fail, then I would agree that I don't have enough info to make a rational decision. In fact, this is exactly why I started this thread. I don't want my personal bias to fuel a misconception. However, I haven't seen just one or two or even 10 fail, I've seen over a hundred.

Even so, there are millions of .380Auto guns out there. So, yeah, it's just my personal bias. I only mentioned this latest one because an actual part fell off. A couple years back I had another student with a Llama .380Auto and that one had the extractor come flying off after about 3 shots. No, these types of failures are not unique to the .380 frame. I've just seen an awful lot of .380s fail.

I think I generate an anti .380 field. I don't recommend trying to use one around me.

 

[Echo40]

This thread has convinced me that I need to become a supporting member, because apparently an unlisted perk of doing so is that you can blatantly violate the forum's Terms of Service and the Moderators will turn a blind eye if you do.

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If this thread hasn't been run into the ground and isn't considered "beating a dead horse" after being bumped for almost a year, complete with many users providing an equal or greater amount of personal anecdotes to the contrary of the TC's assertions, then I'd like to know what is.

 

[flash60601]

A few years ago I hit a deer with my truck. I went to put it out of its misery with a shot to the top of its skull with a 380. It did not penetrate the skull so I had to shoot a second time in the heart. I switched to a J Frame after that. I have two LCP and I have had zero issues after they had 250 +\- rounds through them. My disappointment is with the round not the firearm.

I have no wish to beat a dead horse, but to help kill an animal when it is injured/damaged/etc, , , , , , ,,
Shoot it in the ear, aiming for the opposite eye. The bullet will pass directly into (and usually directly through) the center of the brain. Also highly recommended if you wish to preserve the top of the skull and antlers intact. Will do a deer with a .22, reliably. Cattle and horses should require a bit heavier caliber, but theory/result is the same.

Interesting thread. I personally carry a KelTec P3AT, front pants pocket, in a soft, "Uncle Mike's" holster when I am required to go minimalist.Rem Gold Dots serve properly.

 

[s&wchad]

This thread has convinced me that I need to become a supporting member, because apparently an unlisted perk of doing so is that you can blatantly violate the forum's Terms of Service and the Moderators will turn a blind eye if you do.

Terms of Service

While we do appreciate members who help keep this board open, donations don't immunize them from infractions/reminders. Even contributing members have been suspended or banned for severe violations. We try hard to be fair with everyone and enforce the rules consistently. We're even sometimes tolerant of those who openly criticize the way the board is run.

Caliber threads often become contentious, but this thread has generally remained civil. Inappropriate post have been deleted and action was taken when we felt it necessary. No consideration was given to donation status.

This is a discussion forum and we don't just kill threads because they're popular. This thread has been active for 11 months and has received over 300 replies. Far from sitting back and watching the action, the OP has consistently engaged the discussion. He has relayed first hand accounts that he witnessed in his classes.

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