Two more .380s, two more fails

Had another .380Auto (Sig Sauer) in class today. As the shooter tried to rack in the first round, the slide stop fell out. The owner claims it's never failed before.

I've never seen a slide stop fall out of a gun before.

When I was at the range a while back a guy with a Glock 19 had his slide fly off the gun and out into the range when he fired a round. The slide lock spring had broken. I still thinks Glocks are reliable, just not perfect.

Without real numbers, in pretty much any area, ad hoc data tends to be influenced by confirmation bias. Glock guys ignore Glock failures as eccentricities of the platform, but would see S&W failures as being more frequent and being evidence of some design flaw. Same thing vice versa.
 
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Without real numbers, in pretty much any area, ad hoc data tends to be influenced by confirmation bias. Glock guys ignore Glock failures as eccentricities of the platform, but would see S&W failures as being more frequent and being evidence of some design flaw. Same thing vice versa.
I couldn't agree more. The problem comes when people have problems and continue to claim that they haven't. Then you're only fooling yourself.
 
Had another .380Auto (Sig Sauer) in class today. As the shooter tried to rack in the first round, the slide stop fell out. The owner claims it's never failed before.

I've never seen a slide stop fall out of a gun before.

I bought a Sig P238 a while back and had the same thing happen.

Turns out it was an easy fix. Had to adjust a small spring that held the slide stop in place.

Did the adjustment myself, and never had the problem again.

My P238 has been flawless since this problem was fixed -- with several different kinds of ammo.

I started a thread on this issue over on SIGTALK forum people can look up for more details.

This is a design and QA flaw of this gun, IMHO, but not directly related to it being a 380. In fact, this also happens some times with the P938 -- the 9mm version of the same gun.
 
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This thread has convinced me my 100 year old Colt Pocket Hammerless
.380 is broken, as it resolutely refuses to malfunction.

I have another one that was a pain due to a badly corroded chamber. A new barrel fixed that one.
 

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Had another .380Auto (Sig Sauer) in class today. As the shooter tried to rack in the first round, the slide stop fell out. The owner claims it's never failed before.

I've never seen a slide stop fall out of a gun before.



I bought a Sig P238 a while back and had the same thing happen.
....
This is a design and QA flaw of this gun, IMHO, but not directly related to it being a 380. In fact, this also happens some times with the P938 -- the 9mm version of the same gun.

Great example of confirmation bias. @Rastoff doesn't think .380's are reliable. He had a P238 fail in his class, so it goes into his "those darn .380's bucket" when it really a common mode failure for that gun design, regardless of caliber. Not a criticism of @Rastoff. Easy thing to fall into.
 
when you miniaturize, some things are not able to be incorporated in the same way , The detent /plunger is one that fell to the size constrictions. Ounce you know to pay attention to the spring and if everything is working, then the problem is solved. The spring holding the take down was not a design flaw, but part of the design to minimal size and dimensions. One of the reasons that a 9mm can be this small.
 
Turns out it was an easy fix. Had to adjust a small spring that held the slide stop in place.
I noticed that spring when I reassembled the shooters gun. I was wondering if that might be it, but was more concerned with getting the required shooting done. Since it wasn't a safety issue, we pressed on. I will contact the owner and see if I can fix it for them.

This is a design and QA flaw of this gun, IMHO, but not directly related to it being a 380. In fact, this also happens some times with the P938 -- the 9mm version of the same gun.
Thanks for the info. Several on this thread have commented on how their Sigs were perfect.

Great example of confirmation bias. @Rastoff doesn't think .380's are reliable. He had a P238 fail in his class, so it goes into his "those darn .380's bucket" when it really a common mode failure for that gun design, regardless of caliber. Not a criticism of @Rastoff. Easy thing to fall into.
I understand exactly what you're saying Ziggy. In fact, I work hard to not fall into this kind of bias. If I had seen three or four .380Autos fail, then I would agree that I don't have enough info to make a rational decision. In fact, this is exactly why I started this thread. I don't want my personal bias to fuel a misconception. However, I haven't seen just one or two or even 10 fail, I've seen over a hundred.

Even so, there are millions of .380Auto guns out there. So, yeah, it's just my personal bias. I only mentioned this latest one because an actual part fell off. A couple years back I had another student with a Llama .380Auto and that one had the extractor come flying off after about 3 shots. No, these types of failures are not unique to the .380 frame. I've just seen an awful lot of .380s fail.

I think I generate an anti .380 field. I don't recommend trying to use one around me. :cool:
 
This thread has convinced me that I need to become a supporting member, because apparently an unlisted perk of doing so is that you can blatantly violate the forum's Terms of Service and the Moderators will turn a blind eye if you do.

Terms of Service

NO TROLLS!
A troll is a person who posts something which is bound to stir people up and then sits back and watches as dozens of people jump in and start arguing. Sometimes trolls get their friends to join in or post under different names. Generally they will do anything it takes to get attention. If you see a message like this, please refrain from replying to it – REPORT it!

Trolls are sometimes deceitful and may be very subtle in insulting, intimidating, or inciting a person or persons for their own sadistic pleasure. They often pick their words very carefully and are therefore able to defend their masked attempts at creating unrest, often redirecting the blame onto the community and its failure to understand them properly.

Also considered to be Trolling:
Running a topic into the ground incessantly, as in “beating a dead horse”, and or dragging up an argument long after the original discussion has been put to rest.

If this thread hasn't been run into the ground and isn't considered "beating a dead horse" after being bumped for almost a year, complete with many users providing an equal or greater amount of personal anecdotes to the contrary of the TC's assertions, then I'd like to know what is.
 
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A few years ago I hit a deer with my truck. I went to put it out of its misery with a shot to the top of its skull with a 380. It did not penetrate the skull so I had to shoot a second time in the heart. I switched to a J Frame after that. I have two LCP and I have had zero issues after they had 250 +\- rounds through them. My disappointment is with the round not the firearm.

I have no wish to beat a dead horse, but to help kill an animal when it is injured/damaged/etc, , , , , , ,,
Shoot it in the ear, aiming for the opposite eye. The bullet will pass directly into (and usually directly through) the center of the brain. Also highly recommended if you wish to preserve the top of the skull and antlers intact. Will do a deer with a .22, reliably. Cattle and horses should require a bit heavier caliber, but theory/result is the same.

Interesting thread. I personally carry a KelTec P3AT, front pants pocket, in a soft, "Uncle Mike's" holster when I am required to go minimalist.Rem Gold Dots serve properly.
 
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This thread has convinced me that I need to become a supporting member, because apparently an unlisted perk of doing so is that you can blatantly violate the forum's Terms of Service and the Moderators will turn a blind eye if you do.

Terms of Service
While we do appreciate members who help keep this board open, donations don’t immunize them from infractions/reminders. Even contributing members have been suspended or banned for severe violations. We try hard to be fair with everyone and enforce the rules consistently. We’re even sometimes tolerant of those who openly criticize the way the board is run.

Caliber threads often become contentious, but this thread has generally remained civil. Inappropriate post have been deleted and action was taken when we felt it necessary. No consideration was given to donation status.

This is a discussion forum and we don’t just kill threads because they’re popular. This thread has been active for 11 months and has received over 300 replies. Far from sitting back and watching the action, the OP has consistently engaged the discussion. He has relayed first hand accounts that he witnessed in his classes.

Members are free to express their opinion and add new information, provided the discussion remains civil. If you see a post that you feel is inappropriate, please report it (exclamation point/red triangle in the top right of the post). We’ll look at it and make the decision. If you not happy with this particular discussion topic, move on to another thread. I suspect you’ll find something to your liking.
 
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I don't understand the impatience with thread topics that are repeated or run for "long" periods of time. Consider that while WE may have seen a subject discussed multiple times there are always NEW members for whom that does not apply. Sure, a search might reveal the topic for them, but all users aren't immediately familiar with how to run a search either.
 
This thread has convinced me that I need to become a supporting member, because apparently an unlisted perk of doing so is that you can blatantly violate the forum's Terms of Service and the Moderators will turn a blind eye if you do.
You should test that. You should test it at the Platinum level ($200 per year) just to be sure. Really. :p :D:D:D
 
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