Underwood 68gr defender out performs every hollow point

[Fastbolt]

Are we talking about that 2016/2017 "testing" done by these folks?

Link to Viper Weapons LLC site where the testing document is available:

Ballistics Testing

Uh huh.

Even an average government agency would've known that "Forward" ought to have been spelled Foreword.

"Amount of shots" and "Amount of hits" instead of number of shots/hits? That's scientific?

Those were some of the more charitable questions raised when that company's advertising of their "testing" document was first making the rounds on some internet gun forums.

 

[681ismyfavorite]

I'm generally not lining up to be a beta tester.

I'll wait for the windshield and other intermediate barrier results compared to conventional stuff issued to police today...

 

[BrBa]

I don't put much stock in handgun bullet wound tracks in ballistic gel. It makes for interesting viewing and speculation but that's it. Human tissue has an elastic limit which requires quite a bit more velocity than is typically produced from handguns. Think 2200+ fps.

Very interesting video on this subject:
https://youtu.be/T6kUvi72s0Y?si=72vOu84SFK8z3bvI

That said, I do carry Underwood's 55 gr +P Xtreme Defender in my Seecamp .32 because I don't want expansion. They are also reliable and accurate at 975 fps.

 

[WR Moore]

Gel results are interesting and allow apples to apples comparisons between various offerings. However, there's a sentence about the results that nearly everyone ignores: Test results are not predictive of real world performance.

The test medium, if properly prepared, is uniform. Real world bodies are not.

 

[Lucnic]

Interesting test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDv...lIHBlbmV0cmF0b3IgYnVsbGV0IHByb29mIGdsYXNzIA==

 

[IAM Rand]

I have always been and will continue to be a location, location, location guy. As long as you use good ammo and hit the right spots you will do okay. Your mindset is also important. You have to have the mental fitness to understand that if you have your gun out it is for a good reason and there is a likelihood that you may get shot also. Stay in the game until the bad guy is incapacitated or running the other direction.

Having said all that, I found this group very interesting:

G9 Defense | #1 Premium Defense Ammunition

 

[BLLefkay]

My protection!

 

[Rat458]

My protection!

I carried a Colt Mustang daily for about 20 years.
At the time Hydrashocks were my choice.

 

[hkcavalier]

They are interesting. I tend toward heavier loadings for non-magnums and go light with the magnums, at least for 2 legged defensive purposes. But my wife's Shield is loaded up with 100gr Pow'r Ball ammo --- not because it's fast, which it is, but because it has a FMJ profile. Her immediate action skills aren't all that great. It needs to go bang every time until the slide locks back.

IMO, in order of importance with a handgun, it's:

Mindset (will you pull the trigger first or when needed)
Skill (can you score hits under stress)
Reliability of the weapon (with the chosen ammo)
Accuracy of the weapon (both mechanical and ergonomic)
Bullet construction

Some discount accuracy, but there have been a number of high profile defensive encounters at longer ranges in the last decade. Most modern handguns have very high mechanical accuracy, but some fall short in ergonomic accuracy (like snub revolvers or pocket autos).

Bullet construction came under a lot of scrutiny, especially in the 1980s (the Miami FBI shootout and others), and is still important, just subordinate to the other key elements, IMO.

I like the above story about the .30-30. There are so many like it in history. American Rifleman has several every month. Unless a CNS hit is made, the other shooter tends to keep shooting. There was a video of a police shooting in Spanaway, WA recently that's pretty instructive. Police kept lighting up the perp, who was hit, but he kept shooting. As he lost blood, his shots became slower and he slowly degraded, but it took time. Fortunately, the police had significant standoff and weren't hit, but they also couldn't put the guy down. The Hollywood "blow the guy off his feet" simply doesn't happen and doesn't make sense from a physics perspective. Most people who are shot tend to fall forward, if at all.

 

[Gamecock]

Ballistic self defense weapons work by penetration. Ideally, a self defense bullet will fully penetrate an assailant, then fall on the ground behind them.

Size matters. A larger hole is better than a smaller hole. Expansion is not a viable path to a larger hole. The classic mushroom is a ROUND NOSE.

I recommend the largest caliber one can handle. Flat point ammo, with largest meplat possible. I carry FPFMJ in .380 and 9mm.

To wit, DON'T BUY defensive ammo. It's way over priced, like up to 3X what it should be, and likely not as effective as flat point target loads.

Best defensive bullet? Hard cast wadcutter, with hard cast SWC close second.