Victory data base

[MajorD]

I inherited this S&W Victory from my dad. I remember him buying it from DCM (CMP) back in the 80's for $50...

Your memory might be off. CMP and DCM didn't sell handguns during that time, and to my knowledge never sold 38 revolvers
During the 50's&60's prior to the gun control act of 1968 they did sell 1911's to the public and were unable to until now currently after much legislative wrangling are selling 1911's again. .

 

[X62503]

I would like to submit V10613 (1942?), inherited from my Grandfather. Thanks!

 

[Goony]

I would like to submit V10613 (1942?), inherited from my Grandfather. Thanks!

Yes, 1942. Unfortunately it appears to have been buffed and reblued, so collector value is about nil, but that shouldn't affect its worth to you as a shootable heirloom.

 

[Goony]

Hello!
A few days ago I bought this revolver. It is a Victory model in .38 Special caliber. 4-inch barrel. I was wondering about the markings. The weapon does not have US ownership marks. There are military "P" acceptances on the frame, cylinder and barrel. Serial number V494865. On the buttstock is the letter "W" and the Geco logo. After the war, the weapon was used by the German police, and thier markings on the frame were later milled out. All parts are matching. From what I have learned so far, it may be a production intended for the OSS. Is this true?

The topic of Victory revolvers procured by or for the OSS seems to be a muddled one. My understanding is that such will letter as having been shipped to the United States Navy at Rosslyn, Virginia. I've read that some of those may have in fact been supplied to the German police postwar. The "W" stamped on the butt has been noted but its significance or meaning so far as I know remains unclear.

 

[wojak122]

The topic of Victory revolvers procured by or for the OSS seems to be a muddled one. My understanding is that such will letter as having been shipped to the United States Navy at Rosslyn, Virginia. I've read that some of those may have in fact been supplied to the German police postwar. The "W" stamped on the butt has been noted but its significance or meaning so far as I know remains unclear.

Request for factory letter sent. I will post the answer

 

[USCGBMC]

Hello, New member here.
I recently purchased a Victory with the Osterreich Polizie stamp on it. Sn is V1746, 38 S & W.

It is very nice condition.

Is there a particular book that deals with the Victory, especially the Bavarian Police loaners? I have Charlie Pate's US Handguns of WWII.

Thanks,
Harry

 

[ordnanceguy]

Is there a particular book that deals with the Victory, especially the Bavarian Police loaners? I have Charlie Pate's US Handguns of WWII. Thanks,
Harry

Hello Harry:

Welcome to the Forum, and thanks for giving us the data on your revolver.

As far as books, Charlie Pate's book is far and away the best ever written on the subject of the Victory Model guns.

However, there was an article published within the past decade in the S&W Collectors Association Journal on the post-war issuance and use of the Victory by West German police forces. It was quite good. I don't have my reference materials handy so I cannot give you the date and issue of the Journal which contained that article. Maybe another S&WCA member can supply that information for you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[wojak122]

Some time ago i have published photos of my revolver here. I suspected that it was produced for the OSS because it does not have the US Propoerty inscription and the military acceptance in the form of a burning grenade. In addition, it has the W mark on the grip. Now it has been confirmed by a factory letter! My revolver was sold on December 21, 1943 on a government order and delivered to the OSS warehouse in Rosslyn. What's more, I probably deciphered the W symbol! Together with the certificate, I received a purchase invoice. Notice that in the upper left corner you have the contract number starting with ... W! In my opinion revolvers from this contract (it numbered 2610 pieces) have the letter W denoting this special contract!
Greetings from Poland
Bartosz Skolik from Arsenal Silesia (gun store)

 

[Polsku]

Hey I have a .38 Special Victory with a 4" barrel, flaming bomb U.S. Property G.H.D. on the top strap, serial V 299390. Can anyone please give me any more details? Would be very appreciated.

 

[Glynn863]

Trying this again. I got this Victory at a local show in July 2023.

S/N is SV775003, with "US Property" and "GHD" on the top strap.

I know it's a late production, just trying for more info. Thanks.

 

[gunnertwo]

Some time ago i have published photos of my revolver here. I suspected that it was produced for the OSS because it does not have the US Propoerty inscription and the military acceptance in the form of a burning grenade. In addition, it has the W mark on the grip. Now it has been confirmed by a factory letter! My revolver was sold on December 21, 1943 on a government order and delivered to the OSS warehouse in Rosslyn. What's more, I probably deciphered the W symbol! Together with the certificate, I received a purchase invoice. Notice that in the upper left corner you have the contract number starting with ... W! In my opinion revolvers from this contract (it numbered 2610 pieces) have the letter W denoting this special contract!
Greetings from Poland
Bartosz Skolik from Arsenal Silesia (gun store)

I guess I'll jump in and play Devil's Advocate. I see no connection to the OSS. I see a War Department contract for a large order of Victory models. The "W" (as I know) designates War Department. The shipment was sent to the US Navy. The revolver was probably used in the post war occupation by the German Police (markings milled out after use). I see German proofing on the left side of the frame. It's doubtful the OSS would order 2,610 revolvers for clandestine use.

G2

 

[wojak122]

I guess I'll jump in and play Devil's Advocate. I see no connection to the OSS. I see a War Department contract for a large order of Victory models. The "W" (as I know) designates War Department. The shipment was sent to the US Navy. The revolver was probably used in the post war occupation by the German Police (markings milled out after use). I see German proofing on the left side of the frame. It's doubtful the OSS would order 2,610 revolvers for clandestine use.

G2

1. No US Property stamp
2. Fowler Building in Rosslyn was OSS Warehouse - that's confirmed by offical Navy documents, and many factory letters for other OSS Guns. For example some Colts were send to the same adress in Rosslyn and official buyer in factory papers was OSS.
3. They bought it for unofficial use in Europe during the war. For sabotage actions and stuff like this.

 

[kwill1911]

I agree with 1. and 2. above. 3. is not really true. Most of the OSS activity was not clandestine or sabotage related. Their most common handgun--the Colt M1911A1 (nearly 54,000 of them). The OSS had thousands of Victory Model revolvers in Europe, and many of them were issued to German Police after the war ended.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hey I have a .38 Special Victory with a 4" barrel, flaming bomb U.S. Property G.H.D. on the top strap, serial V 299390. Can anyone please give me any more details? Would be very appreciated.

Hello Polsku:

From the S&WCA's Victory Model Database I can estimate for you that your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the April-May, 1943 time frame.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[ordnanceguy]

S/N is SV775003, with "US Property" and "GHD" on the top strap. I know it's a late production, just trying for more info. Thanks.

Glynn:

Your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the January-March, 1945 time frame.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[roundels]

You need a letter for that one or any Victory for that matter because you never know where it was sent. I have a lettered 4" that shipped to the Fort Worth PD in September 1944.

 

[Glynn863]

Thanks for the replies. I'll probably get it lettered soon.

 

[HARLEY0]

My Victory serial # V 291286
Can you tell me when it was made?
Thanks in advance..
[email protected]

 

[ordnanceguy]

My Victory serial # V 291286. Can you tell me when it was made?

Hello Harley:

Some additional information would be useful to allow me to help you.

What is the caliber, finish and barrel length of your revolver? Are there any left top strap markings? Any post-factory markings such as import marks? Any marks on the bottom of the butt besides the serial number?

With that additional information I think I can probably narrow down your revolver's ship date from the factory (not date of manufacture) within a month or two.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[Blasfimus]

Hey all, I have a DSC Victory model, somewhat early but looks like it has the late finish.
No proof marks except the flaming bomb on the butt by the serial number:
V58439
If possible I'm curious when/ where it was shipped and if the year of manufacture can me confirmed?

Also, @ordnanceguy you have an original DSC box, could you give me the dimensions? Also, do you know what else would have been in the box? Wrapping paper, cleaning rod, sheet of paper, etc. I'd like to do my best to recreate my own

Thanks!

 

[JP@AK]

S/N is SV775003, with "US Property" and "GHD" on the top strap.

Shipped to the Navy, probably in January 1945. Numbers very close to that left Springfield on January 31, 1945.

 

[ordnanceguy]

No proof marks except the flaming bomb on the butt by the serial number: V58439
If possible I'm curious when/ where it was shipped and if the year of manufacture can me confirmed?

Also, ordnanceguy, you have an original DSC box, could you give me the dimensions? Also, do you know what else would have been in the box? Wrapping paper, cleaning rod, sheet of paper, etc. I'd like to do my best to recreate my own

Hello Blasfimus:

Welcome to the Forum. That is a nice looking Victory.

Your revolver likely shipped from the S&W factory in the August-September, 1942 time frame.

With guns shipped under DSC authorization without any property markings it is very difficult to opine as to a likely shipping destination. Most DSC guns shipped in handful quantities, not large numbers, so extrapolating a shipping destination from nearby serials with known shipping destinations is pretty much of a fool's errand. You will need to secure a S&WHF letter to find out what the destination was. If you do that I hope that you will post back here with the results.

Yes, I do have a DSC Victory box in my collection. The dimensions are 11" x 1 3/4" x 4 3/4". The DSC box contents were the revolver, kraft wrapping paper (not VCI paper), and a twist wire .38 Special bristle brush contained in a wrapper/envelope. Also included was a one page Instruction sheet. The DSC guns did not ship with a cleaning rod. The image below shows most of what is found in a DSC box. (The image and the box shown are not mine but since I had the photo handy I have included it here.)



I hope this information is helpful to you. Good luck with your project.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[Blasfimus]

Hello Blasfimus:

Welcome to the Forum. That is a nice looking Victory.

Your revolver likely shipped from the S&W factory in the August-September, 1942 time frame.

With guns shipped under DSC authorization without any property markings it is very difficult to opine as to a likely shipping destination. Most DSC guns shipped in handful quantities, not large numbers, so extrapolating a shipping destination from nearby serials with known shipping destinations is pretty much of a fool's errand. You will need to secure a S&WHF letter to find out what the destination was. If you do that I hope that you will post back here with the results.

Yes, I do have a DSC Victory box in my collection. The dimensions are 11" x 1 3/4" x 4 3/4". The DSC box contents were the revolver, kraft wrapping paper (not VCI paper), and a twist wire .38 Special bristle brush contained in a wrapper/envelope. Also included was a one page Instruction sheet. The DSC guns did not ship with a cleaning rod. The image below shows most of what is found in a DSC box. (The image and the box shown are not mine but since I had the photo handy I have included it here.)



I hope this information is helpful to you. Good luck with your project.

Regards,
Charlie

Thanks a bunch for the info.

I've got the box cut out now, I'm having trouble locating kraft paper that's a lighter color than my cardboard, when I find one Ill share it here.

Do you know how the revolver was wrapped in the box? I tried wrapping it like a flag and tying with thread. Looks legitimate enough but still moves back and forth. Let me know your thoughts please.

Also if anyone has one of those M&P letters and could scan one for this database that would be hugely appreciated

Please inform if this isn't appropriate for this thread, I felt like it's relevant information to be posted here

 

[yessir55]

Just got a Victory in great condition for $420 from auction, wondering if it is has been refinished and any other information available. Also curious if the included holster is original.
V297331 all matching
Crane arm marked 25896
US PROPERTY G.H.D.

You should consider open sourcing the database, at this point it should be a public good.

Thanks for any info!

 

[ordnanceguy]

...wondering if it is has been refinished and any other information available. Also curious if the included holster is original.

Hello Yessir:

Your revolver likely shipped in the April-June, 1943 time frame. It was a Lend Lease contract gun.

The hammer and the trigger have been refinished from the original case color hardening. That suggests to me that the entire piece has been refinished.

The holster is not USGI. It appears to be a commercial item.

I hope that information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[yessir55]

the entire piece has been refinished.

That's the worst news a man can get, but I appreciate the info! I had a feeling the finish looked off, but I've never seen other examples in person.
Interesting that the holster is dated the same year the gun shipped. I wonder if a previous owner already found out the ship date and marked it, or if it is just a coincidence.

 

[Arisaka99]

More than likely, the holster markings are a former owner's attempt to make it look military to deceive and raise value from potential buyers. Lots of folks out there put fake markings on stuff for that purpose. Most WWII-era Victory flapped holsters are unmarked; some by Boyt will be marked and dated.

 

[larkworthy]

Group, I will start posting the Victory's I have in my collection in no particular order.

The first one is one I recently acquired with a ship date of September 14, 1942 to fulfill a Springfield order. The log for this Victory shows a 9/11/42 date with USMAR COM FRISCO. I assume this means the revolver was dispositioned (maybe shipped) on Sept 11, 1942 and that its destination was the United States Maritime Service Commission in San Francisco, CA. Per the rack number on the butt I assume it was later issued to a police department or some other agency.

Looking for feedback on the above information and the best way to communicate what is in the letter. Thank you in advance! Lyle

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hello Lyle:

Nice Victory. Thanks for adding its data to the Victory Model Database. I will look forward to learning about your other Victories when you post them.

Your S&WHF is a little bit confusing in that it implies a direct military connection which I don't think was the case. The Springfield Ordnance District ordered the revolvers and would have been billed for them. Your revolver bears the Ordnance bomb (the "shell and flame") mark on the butt which indicates that it was inspected and accepted for the government under Army supervision. This practice is also consistent with guns shipped under DSC authorization.

From the Shipping Ledger page supplied it shows that your V91519 shipped from the factory on September 11, 1942 to the U.S. Maritime Commission in San Francisco, CA. As you may know the Maritime Commission in WW2 was a civilian agency responsible for building huge numbers of civilian operated ships for the war effort. These were principally the Liberty and Victory cargo ships and tankers. The San Francisco Bay area was a hotbed of military and civilian ship building during the war with the Kaiser organization operating four shipyards in the Richmond, CA area. All of these civilian ships had to be outfitted and that included a complement of small arms.

The 48 marking on the bottom of the stock does indeed appear to be a sort of rack marking. It seems doubtful that any civilian Maritime Commission ship would have had 48 revolvers aboard so, as you suggest, it may be that this number was added after its service with the Maritime Commission. Charlie Pate noted that after the war ended many Victories that had originally shipped to civilian destinations were returned to government control and handled by the Army. That may be the source of the 48 marking on your revolver, but hard evidence to support that is lacking.

Anyway, that is my take on your very nice Victory. Let's see the others, too!

Regards,
Charlie

 

[larkworthy]

Next up is V524176, 4" in 38 Special, Shipped February 9, 1944 to U.S. Navy Norfolk, VA. It has the U.S. Property G.H.D. stamp on top (it is quite faint so had trouble taking the picture).

What is the most likely disposition of this revolver? Thank you in advance! Lyle