Victory data base

[LOBO]

V510455 suggests early 1944 as a shipping date. There was an article several months ago in the American Rifleman about the Victories used during the post-WWII occupation period. The grips on the one pictured do not appear to be S&W grips.

I should have that issue on hand. I'll have to wrangle it up.

I didn't think the stocks were original. The original stocks would be of the non-checkered variety? Thanks for the date on the gun.

 

[murphydog]

Yes, smooth walnut stocks on the VMs. These appear to be off a Spanish K frame M & P copy.

Thanks to all (ordanceguy, LWCmdr45, DWalt) for the 1000 posts!

 

[Span24]

Hello all! My name is Michael and I'm new to this forum. Interestingly, I came upon this thread a few days before I found a Victory Model for sale locally. I'm looking at the possibility of purchasing it. The serial number is V341507. It is in very good condition, parkerized, 4" barrel, does NOT have original grips (magnas) and is missing the lanyard swivel. I have not been able to confirm matching serial numbers.

I'd like to post a few short questions;
1) He is asking $400 for the gun, good price?
2) About what year would this have been manufactured?

From what I've read here I'm thinking 1943ish but I don't see alot of conversation regarding price or value. Of course, I understand that 'its worth what someone will pay for it' and 'condition is everything' so I'm just looking for a thumbs up or down on the asking price.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Absalom]

........It is in very good condition, parkerized, 4" barrel, does NOT have original grips (magnas) and is missing the lanyard swivel. I have not been able to confirm matching serial numbers.

I'd like to post a few short questions;
1) He is asking $400 for the gun, good price?
2) .........

Thanks in advance!

With these two strikes against it (the missing swivel and the missing original grips) I would consider $400 too high, definitely if all remaining serial numbers don't match. But it is not outrageous. Just as a comparative example, a couple of weeks ago a gun of same type and, from the sound of your description, like condition, went on GB for $407, after lively bidding, and that one had mismatched-numbered, but type-correct stocks and no serial on a re-finished or replacement barrel.
Very good condition complete (original stocks, swivel, serial matching in all five locations) have been going for upward of $450 to 500 the past few months in various places.

 

[Art Doc]

"NO! According to S&W if the firearm was manufactured before 1977 +P ammo was not recommended."

LOL

Here's a 1942 VM (Navy contract with damaged 4" barrel swapped for a 5" tube that came on a 1939 commercial revolver, already in the data base) pictured with some of the thousands of +P and +P+ I fired through it for fun.

The +P hysteria continues...

 

[MrCanon]

I'd like to add to this and see if anyone would have any rough guesses as to the history.

Idk what year it is. It has U.S. Navy stamped on the top strap. On the bottom of the frame, between the grips, an unidentifiable letter/number on the far left with a V a little to the right of it. It looks like a backwards C but has some marking at the base of the letter/number. On the other side of the lanyard ring, it has the serial 237305

On the frame thats exposed when you open the cylinder (that the crane covers up) it has the letter X and below that 87404.
On the actual crane it has the same number as above but with the letter S below that.

Here's an album of photos showing everything I've mentioned: http://imgur.com/a/1RP7F

All I know is it was my grandfather's who was a naval communication officer in the pacific theater.

 

[DWalt]

That's a nice Navy Victory. The SN would date its shipment to about February 1943. Incidentally, I have that one's SN on my SN list. Did you make a previous posting here about it?

Most military Victories chambered in in .38 Special went to the Navy. Those built under Navy contracts had SNs up to about V267xxx, thereafter, those designated for Navy use were procured under Army contracts and had the more generic United States Property or U. S. Property topstrap stampings. Even though the Navy-marked Victories are not that unusual or rare (around 70,000-80,000 were made), they do have considerable collector interest and command a price premium if original, as yours appears to be.

The little symbol ahead of the V on the grip is called the Ordnance Flaming Bomb. It's an acceptance stamping.

Navy-marked Victories are generally worthwhile enough to justify getting a factory letter ($50).

 

[MrCanon]

That's a nice Navy Victory. The SN would date its shipment to about February 1943. Incidentally, I have that one's SN on my SN list. Did you make a previous posting here about it?

Most military Victories chambered in in .38 Special went to the Navy. Those built under Navy contracts had SNs up to about V267xxx, thereafter, those designated for Navy use were procured under Army contracts and had the more generic United States Property or U. S. Property topstrap stampings. Even though the Navy-marked Victories are not that unusual or rare (around 70,000-80,000 were made), they do have considerable collector interest and command a price premium if original, as yours appears to be.

The little symbol ahead of the V on the grip is called the Ordnance Flaming Bomb. It's an acceptance stamping.

Navy-marked Victories are generally worthwhile enough to justify getting a factory letter ($50).

Its quite possible I have posted here in the past. Has been a while since I posted anything to this forum. Got the spark after seeing another victory model elsewhere and tried to do some reading.

Thank you for all the info, that was more than I expected. I've always wanted to get the factory letter, just haven't got around to it. When I do however, I will post it up here. As far as value, this has an unimaginable value to me that exceeds what any market price could bring. Thanks again for the information.

 

[CLASSIC12]

Victory from Switzerland

Hi

Another one I saw here at a LGS, he agreed to me taking pictures and posting.

Seems to be a 5 inch, caliber .38 S&W, finish is in very nice condition, but with wrong grips I guess and missing lanyard loop (and expensive too).

Serial number V 141097

 

[lsalisbury]

Hello Everyone,

Thought I'd ad my Victory Model to the database. A very original 38 special S/N V138383. Numbers matching on the grips, barrel, cylinder, star. Flaming bomb proof mark on bottom of frame. No other markings. Any additional info would be appreciated.

Larry

 

[DWalt]

Hello Everyone,

Thought I'd ad my Victory Model to the database. A very original 38 special S/N V138383. Numbers matching on the grips, barrel, cylinder, star. Flaming bomb proof mark on bottom of frame. No other markings. Any additional info would be appreciated.

Larry

With no topstrap property stamping, it's probably a DSC revolver which probably shipped about Oct or Nov 1942.

 

[Absalom]

..... Flaming bomb proof mark on bottom of frame. No other markings.....

DWalt:
Do you by any chance know who applied the flaming bomb and what type of proofing it testifies to? It appears as the sole butt mark on many DSC Victorys, and is generally referred to as an ordnance mark, although that would imply a military connection which a lot of the DSC guns never had since they were shipped directly to a civilian end user.
In other contexts, I've only encountered the flaming bomb in connection with military arsenals, specifically the Springfield armory.

 

[DWalt]

DWalt:
Do you by any chance know who applied the flaming bomb and what type of proofing it testifies to? It appears as the sole butt mark on many DSC Victorys, and is generally referred to as an ordnance mark, although that would imply a military connection which a lot of the DSC guns never had since they were shipped directly to a civilian end user.
In other contexts, I've only encountered the flaming bomb in connection with military arsenals, specifically the Springfield armory.

The "Ordnance Bomb" or "Flaming Bomb" stamp was not a proof marking or acceptance marking. Rather it was an inspection marking, used on a wide variety of weapons, either provisional (prior to proof) or final inspection, depending upon circumstances and location of weapon manufacture. Proof marking on Victories was usually a "P" on the butt until about mid-1943, thereafter, moved to the left upper frame, rear cylinder face, and bottom flat on barrel. The Flaming Bomb (inspection) was stamped on the butt, also until around mid-1943, and later moved to the top strap. Acceptance marking for Victories would be the initials, W.B. on top strap, or G.H.D., in several locations - either butt or top strap.
------------------
DSC guns received the Ordnance Bomb inspection stamping, even though they were intended for civilian use. But not the acceptance stamp. Also, the earluer Navy-stamped revolvers had no Ordnance Bomb stamping nor acceptance stamping.

 

[blockislander]

Victories to add to the database

Top to bottom L-R

1. marked p flaming bomb WB 955937 5” #United States Property” 38 S&W
2. marked V 14232 4” no top markings 38 Special
3. marked 998718 4” no top marking 38 Special
4. marked SV 775441 Right side plate S top marked Flaming Bomb US property GHD 4” 38 Special
5. Sold
6 marked V 226212 4" top marked US Navy 38 Special
7. marked V 135412 4” top marked US Navy side marked Property of US Navy in Red
Any information would be appreciated.
[/URL[URL=http://s29.photobucket.com/user/Blockislander/media/Victory/pix941046658_zpsp7txejti.jpg.html]

 

[DWalt]

1. marked p flaming bomb WB 955937 5” #United States Property” 38 S&W
2. marked V 14232 4” no top markings 38 Special
3. marked 998718 4” no top marking 38 Special
4. marked SV 775441 Right side plate S top marked Flaming Bomb US property GHD 4” 38 Special
5. Sold
6 marked V 226212 4" top marked US Navy 38 Special
7. marked V 135412 4” top marked US Navy side marked Property of US Navy in Red

1. British .38/200 pre-Victory, .38 S&W, shipped approximately March 1942
2. Probable DSC Victory revolver (or possibly U. S. Maritime Commission), shipped about June-July 1942.
3. Same as #2, pre-Victory, shipped about June 1942
4. Late war SV-series Victory, with improved drop safety incorporated beginning in early 1945. Not possible to be accurate on shipping date without a factory letter, but sometime in 1945. These are somewhat uncommon in military configuration. Worth getting a factory letter on this one.
5. N/A
6. Later Navy-stamped Victory, probable shipment in January 1943
7. Red-letter Navy Victory, shipped about Oct-Nov 1942. Red-painted frame engraving not applied by S&W. Probably legitimate, but reason for double Navy property marking is unclear.

#s 4, 6, and 7 are worthy of getting factory letters.

 

[blockislander]

Thank you so much for the information. I will get letters on those that you recommended.
Paul

 

[LOBO]

bump for a thread that should be a sticky

 

[Dutchboyy]

I've got a Victory to add to the database. It's no beauty queen, but it's mine. If the experts can share a little background information about this gun, it would help me enjoy it more, and I would appreciate knowing a little more of its history.

- Serial # V 366738 on both the butt and the bottom of the barrel.
- No extra markings of any kind. I can only see: Smith & Wesson on the left side of the barrel, 38 S&W ctg on the right side (And it's still chambered that way. It won't take 38 Special), Made in U.S.A. on the right side of the frame, and the S&W logo on the right side of the frame. That's all I found.
- Nickle finish
- 4" barrel
- Lanyard loop has been ground off.
- Plastic, imitation stag grips.

Thank you!

 

[DWalt]

V 366738 would date shipment to be ca. mid-1943. If the barrel is indeed stamped .38 S&W CTG, that would make it a 38/200 British service revolver. However, a 4" barrel is suspicious, as those normally have 5" barels. Did you measure length from the front face of the cylinder? Also, there should be a U. S. PROPERTY stamping on the topstrap. It would most definitely not have left the factory with a nickel plated finish or plastic grips. Yours has been seriously messed with and has no collector value, only what someone would pay for a shooter.

 

[Dutchboyy]

Thanks, DWalt for the information you provided.
Yes - It has a true 4" barrel, but I went back and looked closely at the crown, and it's not quite perfect all the way around. Also, near the base of the front sight the top of the barrel has some slight file marks. I would bet that the barrel was cut down, recrowned, and the front sight relocated. It's not a bad job, but it's not anywhere close to perfect. Unless you had pointed it out, though, I would not have noticed it.
I looked really hard for any signs of U.S. PROPERTY on the top strap and for any signs of it being filed off, and I came up empty. Both sides of the top strap look symmetrical and perfect.
So. . . is the best guess that this gun went to the UK in mid 1943, and served in some capacity. Then after the war it got sold on the surplus market where someone "demilitarized" it by making these modifications to increase its resale value. Then it got sold back to the US market, and has been wandering around ever since?
I'm curious why they didn't ream out the chambers to take 38 Special. For the US market, I would think that caliber change would have been really important for resale value. Any thoughts on that from anyone? Thanks!