Victory data base

[DWalt]

"I have a victory model numbered V174854, any info would be great. thank you
looks like it has been rebarreled and chromed. and barrel has no markings."

Obviously it is not original, and therefore not of much collector interest. V174854 would likely have shipped from S&W in very late 1942. Beyond that, I can't help much without more detail. I would strongly suspect that it's one of the huge number of British .38/200 revolvers imported into the US during the 1950s and 1960s which are frequently found with incorrect grips, chopped barrels, nickel plated (all three of which features are demonstrated on your revolver), and with chambers bored out to accept .38 Special cartridges. You should check for the latter. Not unsafe to fire, but with not much value other than as a shooter.

 

[snake803]

Didn't you post on this one earlier? http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/377412-almost-birthday-gun.html

Yes, but not with complete info...I looked but couldn't find it...
JIM............

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I found an old list of some of my early Smith & Wesson's. Here are three more Victory's V724959 Parkerized, 4" 38 Special no military markings. V749951 Parkerized, 5" .38/200 British. V3353 Brushed Blue 4" .38 Special, double U S Navy marked. This is all the information I have, like I said it is an old list.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Thanks, Don. I will get these added to the Victory Model Database.

 

[ordnanceguy]

I don't know if this one's in the data base or not, but here goes: V490437 JIM............ (born on 1/15/44!!!!!

Thanks, Jim. No, we did not have that one in the Victory Model Database. We appreciate your contribution of data.

 

[fgd135]

Hello,
I am a new forum member, trying to establish the general date of manufacture of a Victory revolver. It is a 4" barrel model in .38 S&W Special, with an overall greyish parkerised finish. The cylinder extractor rod is blued, trigger and hammer are case hardened. Smooth walnut grips. Overall Condition is VG, mostly holster wear.
It is marked with the S&W logo on the right side of the revolver, and the barrel caliber markings. Serial number V 127773 is stamped on the bottom of the grip frame, the right inside grip panel and the cylinder. The inside of the yoke has a different number entirely. There is no modification to the VS hammer style
There are no markings on the top strap, and the finish is such that no markings have been removed. There appears to be a very small Ordnance Flaming Bomb stamp on the bottom of the grip frame preceding the sn.
There are no importer markings of any kind. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[DWalt]

V 12773 would date likely shipment to October or November 1942. Without the United States Property stamping on the topstrap, it would most likely have been made under a Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC) contract for essential civilian use within the US.

 

[fgd135]

V 12773 would date likely shipment to October or November 1942. Without the United States Property stamping on the topstrap, it would most likely have been made under a Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC) contract for essential civilian use within the US.

Looks like I erred in my original post, the correct SN is 6 digits, #V127773, not that 5 digit number I posted, but have now corrected. the rest of the description is accurate.
Thanks for your help!

 

[Jim R]

I have V3214

Cylinder is serial numbered to the frame but no number on the barrel
Barrel is marked 38 S&W Special CTG
38 S&W shell will not fit in Cylinder
Each chamber is marked with BNP stamp, and England is stamped one time on the cylinder
On backstrap at top is stamped TKD and under that is 10.4
Gun has been reblued to a bright finish and wears a set of prewar stocks

 

[DWalt]

Looks like I erred in my original post, the correct SN is 6 digits, #V127773, not that 5 digit number I posted, but have now corrected. the rest of the description is accurate.
Thanks for your help!

Turns out that I erred - but didn't err. The date earlier given was indeed for V127xxx and is correct. And V12773 would have been only about 4 months earlier.

 

[fgd135]

Turns out that I erred - but didn't err. The date earlier given was indeed for V127xxx and is correct. And V12773 would have been only about 4 months earlier.

Thanks again!

 

[brigham33]

Another PreVictory letter

Bought this last summer and just got the letter back. This pre-victory was sent to Washington DC in May 1942. The address in the letter is for the newly completed Import/Export bank which was handling lend lease. I expect these were for building security rather than export. Stocks are numbered to the revolver.

From my accumulation of information on pre-victories this one is late. My data shows blued frames and checkered stocks usually ending in March with April starting the black metal and plain stocks.

 

[kwill1911]

There has been some interesting discussion about this on the S&WCA members side with a lot of good information shared. In addition to the EXIM bank that building housed the Reconstruction Finance Corp of which the DSC was a subsidiary. Thanks for posting the picture and the letter.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

 

[DWalt]

While references to DSC usually state that the acronym means the Defense Supply Corporation, records show that it is actually the Defense Supplies Corporation. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_Finance_Corporation..The principal function of DSC was financing and stockpiling of essential strategic materials. It existed only during the 1940-45 period. How they got into the gun business as a sideline is probably an interesting story.

 

[kwill1911]

It wasn't a "sideline." It was part of their original charter:

Creation and Authority.--Defense Supplies Corporation was created by the Reconstruction Finance Corporation on August 20, 1940, pursuant to authority of section 5d of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation Act, as amended, with a capital of $5,000,000.

Purpose.--The purpose of the Corporation is to produce, acquire, carry, sell, or otherwise deal in strategic and critical materials and supplies; to purchase and lease land; to engage in the manufacture of arms, ammunition, and implements of war; to produce, lease, purchase, or otherwise acquire railroad equipment and commercial aircraft, and to lease, sell, or otherwise dispose of same; to acquire facilities for the training of aviators, and take such further action, within a specified dollar limitation, as the President and the Federal Loan Administrator deem necessary to expedite the War Program.

 

[hardscrabble]

In Brigham33's letter above, Mr. Jinks says "The revolvers produced after serial number 690000 generally were supplied to support the war effort of World War II."

I have SN 802636, a 6" barreled .38 Special with (what appears to be) the same finish as Brigham33's 898XXX above, a lanyard ring and service stocks numbering to the gun. I bought it because it was listed as a ".38S&W", and I thought it was an unmarked Lend/Lease British service revolver. I wasn't too disappointed when I received it because it was in much better condition than it appeared in the listing photos.

I thought there was a chance it is a pre-Victory (as defined by govt. issue) rather than one of the revolvers produced for the civilian market prior to civilian sales ending.

I have sent for a letter, which is months away. I wonder if someone might have some experience with the few revolvers in this general SN range that were produced for the civilian market. Did they receive typical pre-war polish? Were they equipped with service stocks or magnas? Does the lanyard ring tend to point towards govt. issue?

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[brigham33]

Any thoughts appreciated.

Hardscrabble, I have in my small data base numbers that are above and below yours that are BSR's (British Service Revolvers). The 6" barrel is frequently Canadian, but the 38 Special makes it generally US market. Though I have read that in the early days the Brits were buying anything including even a few 38 Specials. I would guess that it was US civilian use, but a letter is probably the only way to see for sure. I believe that was a turbulent period for S&W sales and shipments, so lots of "exceptions".

The serious experts will probably offer much more reliable info.

 

[JP@AK]

I believe that was a turbulent period for S&W sales and shipments

It certainly was. In fact, the company was up to its ears in debt to the British government after the refusal by that government to buy its proposed battle rifle (toward which the UK had advanced the company a great deal of money - 7 figures, as I recall). That is what led directly to the decision to produce the BSR - to work off the debt by supplying revolvers for the UK war effort. Remember, we were still officially neutral in the conflict at that point. There was a very strong anti-war sentiment in the U.S., which was reflected in Congress.

 

[hardscrabble]

Hardscrabble, I have in my small data base numbers that are above and below yours that are BSR's (British Service Revolvers). The 6" barrel is frequently Canadian, but the 38 Special makes it generally US market. Though I have read that in the early days the Brits were buying anything including even a few 38 Specials. I would guess that it was US civilian use, but a letter is probably the only way to see for sure. I believe that was a turbulent period for S&W sales and shipments, so lots of "exceptions".

The serious experts will probably offer much more reliable info.

That's what I read. I expected it to come back as a civilian market sale. It makes sense that IF they found some break in the BSR orders the company would take the frames they were producing (with a brushed blue finish, drilled for a lanyard ring stud), turn a few .38 Special barrels and send them on to the wholesalers.

The piece I'm missing is some evidence hinting at the circumstances of this production. If they were so caught up in the British orders, what was it that enabled diverting guns to US civilian purposes? Your letter is pretty enlightening, in that some of those "civilian" orders might quite possibly have been agency directed, as opposed to filling wholesaler/retailer orders on an "opportunity" basis.

I know there aren't good answers to most of these questions about individual guns other than what Mr. Jinks can provide.

 

[kwill1911]

I believe Roy's reference to "no commercial sales" refers to the Limitation Order L-60 that was issued by the War Production Board on Feb 27, 1942. It required all dealers and wholesalers of firearms to report their inventories to the government and restricted all sales except to local, state and the federal government, allied governments and/or for Lend-Lease purposes. On May 26, 1942 the order was modified to allow sales of small-gage [sic] shotguns, odd caliber and certain .22-caliber rifles. Specific exceptions were sales:

1. On a specific order of the Director of Industry Operations,
2. For Federal, State, or local government use,
3. For Lend-Lease purposes,
4. On an order on hand as of May 26, to which a preference rating of A-l-j or higher has been applied, or
5. To the Defense Supplies Corporation.

I suspect that brigham33's revolver was actually sold and shipped to the DSC which was housed in the Lafayette Building. (That's the building at that address.)