Victory data base

[Mike in Wis.]

Thanks to both of you for your information. Was it common for the USMC ownership information to be hand engraved like this ? I'm hoping the Marine Commission ownership is verified when the S&W letter shows up. I'd love to know who/where/what #55 was... factory, home port or ship ID I'd guess. I noticed the P proofs and Ord Bomb(s) on the major assemblies. I read here on the forum that it may be likely that the military proofs were added as the parts were made and these USMC revolvers and other non-military types, were plucked off the general assembly line. One has to wonder why they'd bomb and proof the parts like the frame and cylinder when made, and then have to return to add the US Property etc. on the top strap for military contracts. It seems like it would make sense that they intercepted blocks of frames for the non-military contract revolvers in batches during the assembly process, but who knows ? Just like M1C rifles or web sling use during WW2.... the story never seems to end with the currently available information It's a very nice piece of history none the less.

BTW... there is an Ordnance bomb on the bottom of the grip frame...and the infamous W, looking more like a N because it's lightly struck on one side.

Mike

 

[LOBO]

Good letter there, Lobo, on your South African. Thanks for posting it.

You're welcome

 

[ordnanceguy]

Was it common for the USMC ownership information to be hand engraved like this ?

BTW... there is an Ordnance bomb on the bottom of the grip frame...and the infamous W, looking more like a N because it's lightly struck on one side.

Mike

Hello Mike:

The Victory Model Database shows another similar Victory in the V497000 range which has the electro-penciled marking "USMC #101" on its back strap. I suspect that it was probably done by the same guy who marked your revolver. No shipping data was available to us on that particular gun.

The other markings on your revolver are consistent with the guns shipped to the US Maritime Commission during this general time frame.

If/when you get a factory letter on your gun I hope that you will post back here with the details.

I hope this additional info has been helpful to you.

 

[Mike in Wis.]

Very useful Charlie.... thanks. I will surely report what information S&W can provide on my Victory when I get the information.

I'm really curious what the #101 and #55 means... but alas, we may never know. My first thought was the pistol was assigned to a ship bearing that hull number. But who knows ?

Mike

 

[DWalt]

My understanding was that these were assigned to a ship like any other piece of standard equipment when it left the shipyard. True or not, I have no idea. Likewise, how many revolvers were assigned to each ship - probably only a small number, maybe just one to the Captain. It would make sense that the numbers engraved on the backstrap had something to do with a specific ship. Quite a few Colt Commando revolvers were also distributed to USMC.

 

[Mike in Wis.]

I know in general "equipment" was issued to the ship exactly as you state. It does make sense that weaponry would be issued the same way. If that's the case I know exactly which ships would be issued a weapon based on the hull number. BTW... the hull number was used to identify ships, much like a VIN number associated with a vehicle or build number on an aircraft. I have a list of USMC ships built and their hull numbers. I think as the War progressed, and especially after the inclusion of the USN Armed Guards to merchant ships, the availability of arms to crew members greatly increased. I've spoken to a number of Merchant Marine WW2 veterans who drew revolvers and even rifles and SMG from storage when in certain waters (most common in the Pacific Theater). Merchant seamen were supposed to be non-combatants and unarmed... which didn't work out all that well. Hence I suspect some of the armament available to ordinary seamen was crew financed and obtained. A fact related to me by several Veterans...

Captains were, IIRC, issued side arms. Not for ship defense, but apparently historically in case of crew mutiny, to maintain order.

 

[TVG]

Help with identity of S&W Victory?

Hello,
I have a 5 screw SV 769073. It is marked "US Property GHD". I don't know much about it but it is in pretty nice shape. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Mark

 

[DWalt]

You have one of the very first of the SV-series Victories made in early 1945. The SV series was the first to incorporate the improved hammer safety design, thus the "S" in SV. Yours is in .38 Special (judging from the 4" barrel) with the "U. S. Property" topstrap stamping. The condition appears to be about as good as it gets. In military guise, these are quite scarce. The lowest SN I show on my list is SV7541xx. Yours was very likely originally shipped to some Navy location. The Navy took most of the .38 Special Victories during WWII, as personal weapons for naval flight crews.

Only about 50,000 SVs were made at the end of the war, and many of those were made up as civilian revolvers with blued finish. Yours is therefore highly desirable for both its rarity and condition, and you are very fortunate to have it. I wouldn't be surprised if you get some offers to buy it from serious Victory collectors. You should definitely order a factory letter ($50).

 

[DCWilson]

Hello,
I have a 5 screw SV 769073. It is marked "US Property GHD". I don't know much about it but it is in pretty nice shape. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Mark

TVG, welcome to the forum. That is a very nice specimen. Several Victory models with serial numbers in the vicinity of yours were shipped in March 1946, many months after the formal end of WWII. Most Victory models had the single V prefix in the serial number, but an S was added to the serial numbers of guns manufactured from January 1945 to indicate the presence of a more reliable hammer block mechanism. The revision was designed to prevent discharge in the event a dropped revolver landed on its hammer.

There are better informed Victory collectors who may be able to tie your serial number to delivery under a particular government contract. S&W had no policy that required shipping guns in serial number order, and there is some intermingling of serial number ranges in the late WWII and early postwar environment.

G.H.D. are the initials of Guy H. Drury, the designated inspector for military handgun deliveries during WWII.

EDITED TO ADD: DWalt is absolutely correct about the scarcity and collector desirability of your gun.

EDITED AGAIN: Actually, I think that should be Guy H. Drewry (not Drury). My sense is that whichever spelling I use, it's always the other one that's correct.

 

[TVG]

Thanks DeWalt abd DCWilson.

The barrel has 38 S&W Special CTG stamped on it. DWalt I'm going to get the Factory Letter as you suggested. I was in the Navy and served a tour with a F/A-18C squadron VFA-27 out of Atsugi, Japan. I was the pilots "Aircew Survival Equipmentman” and cared for their flight gear and survival guide terms. It was would be great to find out if it did go to a ship and what ship.
I traded for the gun and some would say that I got the crappy end of the stick and that OK with me because the other does not have the story or history to go with it and that is what makes it fun
Thanks Again,

Mark

 

[DWalt]

Here is some information about Guy H. Drewry: Brigadier General Guy H. Drewry, Ordnance Corps Hall of Fame Inductee 1996, U.S. Army Ordnance Corps

The letter will not tell you what ship (if any) it went to - only that it (likely) went to some Navy depot.

 

[RichieC56]

Some very interesting reads here. I just aquirred what I think is a S&W Victory. It's stamped V25717 and has BNP with what looks like a crown or a W above it. The cal. is .38 S&W special CTG. The cylinder is also stamped England. Any idea of what and when would be very cool.
All of you do some great stuff here!
Not sure if I've done my post correctly...

 

[DWalt]

Interesting that it has British proofs if in .38 S&W Special (assuming that's what is stamped on the barrel). That SN would have shipped about June-July 1942. A very high percentage of Victories in that SN area will be .38/200s for the British, not .38 Special. A little more information might help, such as the barrel length (those in .38 S&W Special will nearly always be 4". while those in .38 S&W will be 5" (front face of cylinder to muzzle)). Second, do the SNs on the barrel, cylinder and butt match? What is stamped on the topstrap?

 

[RichieC56]

It has a 4" barrel, see if the pictures help. I don't know where the grips came from.

 

[RichieC56]

1 more picture of the barrel that wouldn't fit. I don't see anything stamped on the top strap. Only the top of the barrel in this shot.

 

[LOBO]

Pre-Victory sn# 996123 .38 special 4" with Israeli markings on the right side of the frame.

 

[DWalt]

Unusual grips - must be Israeli-made. The Israelis also made a revolver very similar to the K-frame S&W chambered in 9mm.

 

[DWalt]

It has a 4" barrel, see if the pictures help. I don't know where the grips came from.

There are several possible explanations as to why your non-military .38 Special Victory could have ended up with British proof markings, but I do not pretend to know what happened, and any scenario would be a guess. One place to start would be to get a factory letter to find out at least where it was first shipped. Generally, a .38 Special Victory with no topstrap property stamping would have been used for essential stateside purposes. But there are some exceptions, such as OSS and US Maritime Commission guns. Perhaps it got into British hands that way.

 

[JeepRacer]

At a gun show last weekend, I picked up a S&W Victory with no military markings. I purchased it from a nice older gentlemen (I guess 80 or so). He said he has owned it for years and was looking for something different. He said it had been shot recently.
What I got was a 85% shooter with serial number matching grips and cylinder. Locks up okay with very little play. Lanyard ring is still on revolver.
If you have any other information available on this revolver I would appreciate what you can share.
Serial number is: V646209. Color is: Sandblast blue, Barrel: 4 inch

Thanks.

 

[DWalt]

V646209 would date it from around mid-1944. With no topstrap property markings and in .38 Special (those had 4" barrels) it would very likely be a Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC) revolver, made for wartime use by stateside law enforcement agencies and defense plant guards. It would not have originally been shipped with a blued finish, but rather a phosphate finish, similar to Parkerizing.