Victory data base

[DWalt]

Thanks for the info. No, I wasn't that delusional to think they had been mated for life. Maybe since the previous owner found the holster. So, part of their life. ))) I haven't seen a letter for a Victory. Will the letter reflect shipment to a USN organization?

Tnx

I think that has been explained. A very high percentage of S&W .38 Special revolvers which were used by the U.S. Military during WWII went to the Navy, most of them used to arm flight crews. Early ones were purchased from S&W under a Navy Contract, while later ones were procured through Army contracts. All (with the exception of OSS guns shipped to the Navy at Rosslyn VA) will have topstrap property stampings, U. S. NAVY, UNITED STATES PROPERTY, and last, U. S. PROPERTY. Smaller numbers went to the U. S. Maritime Commission (Merchant Marine) and the Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC). Those were not property stamped. A historical letter will not tell you much more than the date of shipment and first destination, i.e., a Navy supply depot. DSC guns will usually letter as shipping to some defense contractor or domestic law enforcement agency.

 

[opoefc]

Info for data base: An upcoming CA auction has : V220470 BSR 38S&W 5 in. Bbl, frame Stamped "Osterreich Polizei " and Pre-Victory BSR #896544, 5 in Bbl., Vega import stamped. Ed.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Good. Thanks, Ed.

On the 896544 there appear to be unit markings at the top of the back strap. Can you tell what they are?

 

[opoefc]

Charlie, I've looked at the backstop of 896544 but I don't see anything that could be a marking of some kind. There is a marking on the top of the backstap of V220470 that appears to be 3 small numbers followed by 2 letters. probably a rack or unit mark. Ed

 

[ordnanceguy]

Yes, Ed. I got the two mixed up. Sorry.

It appears that V220470 has unit markings on the top of the back strap. I see that the auction house has now mentioned those markings in the description. They are believed to read 16 BN 43.

Thanks.

 

[Igiveup]

DWalt, I gather what you said above, if the top strap has no markings it was sent to the OSS? I "think", without looking, that one of mine does not have any markings on the top strap.

 

[opoefc]

In my opinion, the "16BN43" would be a marking of the Brits, prior to the gun have been transferred to the post WW2 Austrian Police, as it is similar to other markings occasionally seen on BSRs, as applied by unit armorers during the guns service with the Brits. "16BN" would have been the unit and "43" would be the unit inventory, or rack, number. An inquery to the Imperial War Museum in London will probably get a reply that identifies the 16BN . Ed

 

[JS Esq.]

Made a separate post about my new-to-me Victory LL, but wanted to include it here as well to make sure the right eyes see it for the database.

Victory - Album on Imgur

 

[Absalom]

In my opinion, the "16BN43" would be a marking of the Brits, prior to the gun have been transferred to the post WW2 Austrian Police, as it is similar to other markings occasionally seen on BSRs, as applied by unit armorers during the guns service with the Brits. "16BN" would have been the unit and "43" would be the unit inventory, or rack, number. An inquery to the Imperial War Museum in London will probably get a reply that identifies the 16BN . Ed

As an alternative explanation, I think it may be an Austrian police designation. As a general rule, the practice of applying unit markings to small arms, still common in the British Army in WW I, was abandoned by WW II to avoid providing inadvertent intelligence to the enemy if captured. On the other hand, there are pictures of another Austrian police BSR with the same marking, showing it to be BW, not BN. Austrian police did use numbered districts or precincts called “Bezirkswache”, for which BW could be the abbreviation. But that is just a guess.

 

[Absalom]

DWalt, I gather what you said above, if the top strap has no markings it was sent to the OSS? I "think", without looking, that one of mine does not have any markings on the top strap.

No, that is a misunderstanding. On any V-prefix gun the following usually applies:

In most cases, no topstrap marking on a .38 Special 4" Victory means it was sold to a non-military recipient through the DSC or (less likely) to the US Maritime Commission. Some Navy-shipped guns were not marked. For OSS, the gun would have to letter to Rosslyn, VA.

No topstrap marking on a .38 S&W 5" Victory means the marking was scrubbed after the war.

 

[sandspur6]

I picked up a nice Pre-Victory, SN 981071. The SN matches on the butt, barrel, cylinder, and grips. It is a 4" .38 Special, with the normal park type finish and lanyard loop. It has no markings on the top strap and is stamped "12 ALCOA" in large block letters on the back strap. I am assuming that it spent the war guarding the plant that produced most of the aluminum used in making the aircraft for the Navy, Marines, and the Army Air Corps. I was just curious as to when it would have shipped? I am guessing early/mid 1942. Thanks.

 

[Absalom]

....
It has no markings on the top strap and is stamped "12 ALCOA" in large block letters on the back strap. I am assuming that it spent the war guarding the plant that produced most of the aluminum used in making the aircraft for the Navy, Marines, and the Army Air Corps. I was just curious as to when it would have shipped? I am guessing early/mid 1942. Thanks.

Great one! The ownership stampings on DSC guns are rarely as obvious as on yours

Being me, I’d still letter it to see where exactly it shipped. Alcoa had several plants in NY, NJ, TN, and NC.

Your guess is right on. I’d say around May 1942 (+/-).

 

[tenntex32]

I picked up a nice Pre-Victory, SN 981071. The SN matches on the butt, barrel, cylinder, and grips. It is a 4" .38 Special, with the normal park type finish and lanyard loop. It has no markings on the top strap and is stamped "12 ALCOA" in large block letters on the back strap. I am assuming that it spent the war guarding the plant that produced most of the aluminum used in making the aircraft for the Navy, Marines, and the Army Air Corps. I was just curious as to when it would have shipped? I am guessing early/mid 1942. Thanks.

Any way you could post a few pics of that pre-Victory.........especially that ALCOA stamp?

Thanks,
Dale

 

[snw19_357]

Can someone help me with the markings on this Victory?

It has "C.H.D" after U.S. Property on the top strap and "WB-S-MAN" on the back strap

 

[Absalom]

Can someone help me with the markings on this Victory?

It has "C.H.D" after U.S. Property on the top strap and "WB-S-MAN" on the back strap

It’s G.H.D. and those are the initials of Guy H. Drewry, officer in charge at the ordnance district whose contractors performed the inspections at the factory.

Your gun was issued to police in US-occupied Germany in 1946.

WB = Württemberg-Baden, the state
S = Schutzpolizei or Stadtpolizei (municipal police)
MAN = Mannheim, name of the town

 

[snw19_357]

It’s G.H.D.

So it is.

Thank you very much!

 

[Igiveup]

I guess I can ask here. I already reported my Victory, but noticed it has an "S" stamped in the yoke area of the frame, not the crane. Anyway it is the frame part of the revolver. I remember reading what this means, but don't remember. I think it means it was converted somehow to a safer mode.

 

[Absalom]

I guess I can ask here. I already reported my Victory, but noticed it has an "S" stamped in the yoke area of the frame, not the crane. Anyway it is the frame part of the revolver. I remember reading what this means, but don't remember. I think it means it was converted somehow to a safer mode.

In order to signify conversion to the new hammer block safety, the S would have to appear on the sideplate (by the back screw) and on the butt (by the V).

Elsewhere, like in your description, the S is a service department mark that means the stamped part needed repair before the gun shipped.

A relatively high percentage of Victorys did not pass final inspection the first time, and they have these on various parts.

 

[sandspur6]

Any way you could post a few pics of that pre-Victory.........especially that ALCOA stamp?

Thanks,
Dale

I'd be glad to, if I knew how it's done these days. I parted ways with Photobucket years ago. Thanks.

 

[Absalom]

I'd be glad to, if I knew how it's done these days. I parted ways with Photobucket years ago. Thanks.

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