Victory Snubby

[marchof73]

I have a Victory for your data bank.
I acquired it in a trade for two unwanted guns sand the deaj was definitely in my favour!
Details:
Ser# V221790--the 90 are stamped in smaller #s than the rest
2 3/8 inch barrel (muzzle to cylinder0
BNP and crown(Brit nitro proof)mark on lower frame in front of trigger guard
Serial numbers match on butt cyl.and ejector.Frame and crane #s match,with a stamped M above frame mark
V and M stamped on frame inside grip area
Grips are checkered walnut with gold S&W medallions,number on one grip 260971
The front sight has been cut down from the original half moon to a 1/4inch high flat top/which gives a very good sight picture!

The gun is in really nice shape,only 3 small dings on back strap and about 95% finish,which is nickel plated.
Calibre 38 special-and NO IT IS NOT A RE-CAMBERED s&w 200-i WAS VERY CAREFUL IN MY MEASUREMENTS OF THIS!
iT has a 4 screw side plate
The only photo I,ve been able to find was a blued victory snubby on a website called the Snubnose files

Can anyone give me any info on what I may have please,
One story,probably one of those urban legends is that is was special issue to RAF pilots,who could use the nickel plated sides as a mirror to rescue aicraft in the unfortunate case of having to ditch in the English Channel .
I,m a Brit so like to believe that.

Regards to all readers
Marchof73

 

[marchof73]

I have a Victory for your data bank.
I acquired it in a trade for two unwanted guns sand the deaj was definitely in my favour!
Details:
Ser# V221790--the 90 are stamped in smaller #s than the rest
2 3/8 inch barrel (muzzle to cylinder0
BNP and crown(Brit nitro proof)mark on lower frame in front of trigger guard
Serial numbers match on butt cyl.and ejector.Frame and crane #s match,with a stamped M above frame mark
V and M stamped on frame inside grip area
Grips are checkered walnut with gold S&W medallions,number on one grip 260971
The front sight has been cut down from the original half moon to a 1/4inch high flat top/which gives a very good sight picture!

The gun is in really nice shape,only 3 small dings on back strap and about 95% finish,which is nickel plated.
Calibre 38 special-and NO IT IS NOT A RE-CAMBERED s&w 200-i WAS VERY CAREFUL IN MY MEASUREMENTS OF THIS!
iT has a 4 screw side plate
The only photo I,ve been able to find was a blued victory snubby on a website called the Snubnose files

Can anyone give me any info on what I may have please,
One story,probably one of those urban legends is that is was special issue to RAF pilots,who could use the nickel plated sides as a mirror to rescue aicraft in the unfortunate case of having to ditch in the English Channel .
I,m a Brit so like to believe that.

Regards to all readers
Marchof73

 

[dinghysailer]

Gold medallion grips are not right for a victory. With that number, probably in pencil, they would from around 1916 or so.

Is there a serial number on the bottom of the barrel? Does it match the rest of the gun?

 

[LWCmdr45]

Welcome to the forum. In addition to the BNP/crown, are there any other markings (e.g., .38, .767, 1.150, 3.5 TONS or 3 1/2 TONS or 4 TONS PER ?) on the barrel or frame? (The marking under the stock panels and cylinder yoke are usually irrelevant.)

Steve

 

[km371]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[walnutred]

OK, here's my uneducated guess. From what I can tell all of the British marks you are describing are civilian. I suspect that you have a US issue Victory model that after the war found itself in British possession. The revolver was sent back to the US during the 50's surplus sales and the barrel was cut here in the States. Had the barrel been cut in England I think the Not English Make stamp would be seen on the barrel.

Now if you come back and tell us that the barrel still has the full address on it and there are British military proofs as well then all bets are off.

I know the more knowledgeable will blow holes in this theory but it's fun pt speculate on the history of firearms that have traveled half way around the world, at least.

 

[bk43]

Here's another uneducated guess. The gun has three features that are very rare in and of themselves and together on one gun doesn't compute for me. There were a few .38 specials that went to Britain early on. There were a few snubbies, 2" I believe, that went to the US Government and there were a few commercial nickel SV's. You've got features that went to different markets at different times so I would suspect it is not as it left the factory.

Bob

 

[jjones33]

If it is worth 30 dollars to you then send off to S&W for a letter. In this case it's like a scratch off ticket. You may come up with something that is verifiable as unique.

 

[mikepriwer]

We need a couple of pictures of this gun. It would be very helpful.

Question: is there a lug under the barrel, to secure the end of the extractor rod,
or does the end of the extractor rod hang free ?

My guess is that there is no lug under the barrel. 2 3/8" is about 1/8" to 3/16"
beyond the end of a standard-length extractor rod - measuring from the front face
of the cylinder.

Based on the information presented thus far, I would say that this barrel has
been cut about as short as it could be, so that the end of the extractor rod
is pretty near the end of the shortened barrel. The nickel finish is, for anything
in this serial number range, not factory. As far as I know , all Victories in
this serial range are blue. The War is going hot and heavy, and the factory is
crannking out all the production it can get out.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[opoefc]

Sounds to me like you have acquired a "Bubba Special" BBQ gun that some past owner has extensively modified to his desires, using an inexpensive Victory Model as the starting point for his project. As said above, good pictures will solve the mystery. Clear photos of ALL markings, especially on the barrel, are needed. The story about nickel guns being used by the RAF, etc., is pure urban ledgend invented by enterprising marketeers to move junk guns.

 

[bk43]

Marchof73, welcome to the forum. I hope you aren't put off by the assessments of your purchase. Trust me, all of us here have reached for the wallet a little too fast and brought home a gun that wasn't what it appeared to be. If you are interested in WWII era S&W's, I would like to recommend U.S. Handguns of World War II by Charles Pate. It's very interesting and a great reference.

Bob

 

[walnutred]

I did not mean my uneducated guess to be an insult. Irregardless of when the modification were done they were done because someone needed or wanted a 2" K frame. From your description it sounds like you still have a very serviceable 2" K frame.

 

[marchof73]

Hi Guys,sorry I have not replied to individual posts but have been sick this last week(chemo side affects)
Well,from all info received I am sure gun is a cut down Victory--no markings on barrel-lanyard ring filled in(brazed)
The BNP mark is dated from 1954 or later so yet more confusion.
One thing this gun is NOT is a :bubba: special
All work done is very hjgh quality ,well executed and ended up with a well balanced practical gun with better sights than the original,which I acquired at a price I think was very fair .
it shoots well for a snubby and provenance be damned I will be keeping it.
I still like the RAF story though!!
Regards Marchof73

PS will post photos soon,getting new computer this week--this one wheezes too much trying to mess with photos

 

[slikrickabn]

I have a Victory identical to yours, with the exception of british markings and grips. The work on the barrel is exceptional, and the sight is cut down to the correct height. The bluing is very nice, but no military markings on the gun- lanyard hole is also filled. Anyone have any ideas of what we have? I have been told the "cut down for aircrews" story also, but have found no verification.

Rick

 

[mikepriwer]

This reply is to both of your owners of these snubby Victories. I asked
this question earlier, but received no answer.

So - one more time - is there a lug under the barrel, to retain the extractor
rod ? Or, is there none, and the rod just hangs out there by itself ?
And, how far does the extractor rod project forward in front of the frame ?

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[slikrickabn]

There is no shroud- the ejector hangs free, and extends to the end of the barrel.

Rick

 

[marchof73]

My Snubby has an overall barrel length of 2/3,8 inches/muzzle to cylinder.
Extractor rod is 2/1,4 inch long front to cylinder.
There is the standard "dovetail" cut under the knurling on the ejector rod and NO it does not have an ejector rod location lug under the barrel.
I am pretty well convinced it,s been cut down but why is it 38 special with British proof marks?
Hope this info helps a bit more.
Regards to all who have participated in this enquiry

 

[mikepriwer]

March

With no lug under the barrel, as I commented on earlier, that confirms
that the barrel has been cut. This was not done by the factory - they
would never leave the extractor rod hanging unsupported. There is
no doubt about this.

The Model of 1899 has no lug, but the rod was solid. Beginning in
1902, they introduced the anchoring lug under the barrel, and redesigned
the extractor rod, to be a thin hollow tube with a center pin. Its
common to find them bent, in varying degrees, in their factory
configuration with a lug. Without a lug, that rod can easily get caught
on something, or hit something, and get deformed out of it proper
alignment. This will cause wear on the single and double action
parts of the lockwork, as the cylinder will bind slightly when the
rod is bent.

In fact, one or more of the patent dates on the barrel-top refers
to the locking lug under the barrel.

If you want to pursue the 38-special caliber of this gun, you should
order a factory letter. There is another possibility, and that is that
this barrel is not the original barrel. It could be a replacement
barrel that was subsequently serial-numbered to your gun. The only
way to know how the gun was shipped, and where, is via a letter.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[marchof73]

Thanks for yet more info!
As a matter of curiosity I centered the ejector rod in my lathe and the total runout was less than 2thou.
Obviously not bent,but I can see how easily that could happen.
I have worked exstensively on the action of this gun-polishing,lapping and stoning as necessary and have a super smooth action in both double and single action.
I will be sending off for a letter and will pass on results
Ian

 

[SG-688]

This is typical gun magazine ad from the 60's.

The ad shows a 2 inch but describes a 3 inch barrel.

As mentioned, the ones I've seen were somewhere in between - with no front lug.