Walked out of home purchase at closing rant

[fdw]

The best part about being a lawyer is the fear I bring into laymen's hearts. People think after dinner I go upstairs into the attic and hang upside down from the rafters until wake up the next morning.
A few tips to you laymen shivering in your boots.
I don't do this just for fun. I want to get paid.
The ONLY thing I do on a contingency basis is personal injury and only for the reason that I am assuming risk and having to shell out money of my own to work the case (last one I was on the hook for close to 40k in medical bills ).
Any other work is done on an hourly basis with an advance deposit placed in my trust account and billed against as work progresses.
If the seller in this case came into my office and wanted to hire me to represent them in a suit for specific performance it would cost them well in excess of 10k in expenses and fees before it was all over and they would be paying as they went. My advice to them would be to take the $1,000 deposit and use it to clean up the house for the next sale.
My advice to you and your wife is that if these people were going to make it right -don't cut your nose off to spite your face-you might be able to squeeze some additional concessions out of them and still get the house.
Only problem is that all I would get out of it either way would be a consultation fee ( Maybe I'm doing all this lawyer **** all wrong )

This is very good advice here. Suing is expensive business and in the end you very well may not prevail..

I've been through 100s of transactions as a buyer's agent and when people start talking about suing, I tell um you better really think about that... never seen anyone sue. Now I've played hard ball many a time for my buyers and usually in the end, everyone wins...

 

[sw282]

As a painter l see every little flaw.. ln my area most of the
''lnspectors'' are guys who could not make it in the construction
trades...Four foot ladder, flashlight, pair of coveralls and they
become lnspectors... 0ops, l forgot to throw in the magnetic
lnspector sign for their pick-up door..

Going behind them is fun AND profitable

 

[Rastoff]

People think after dinner I go upstairs into the attic and hang upside down from the rafters until wake up the next morning.

I thought you ate dinner hanging upside down. I'm disappointed to hear you only sleep that way.

 

[Marine Corps Air]

I've read through the OP several times and this appears to me to be a case of "Divine Providence". allthumbs you and the Mrs. have been really living right.

For a home in this price range to be in this condition after only 4 1/2 years tells me that the sellers (owners) absolutely can't be trusted under any conditions, and that a prospective buyer shouldn't buy anything from them, especially a home. My wife and I have bought and sold eight homes since 1976. Always working with a realtor, we have seen dozens of homes before we made our final selection. We have always found the sellers to be honest and to have high integrity. They had "pride of ownership" in maintaining their home and the homes that we purchased from them were ready for us to begin enjoying from Day One.

That's certainly not the case here with these sellers. I would not buy this home (or any home for that matter) from these sellers, at any price. You were wise to do a pre-close walk through. You subsequently observed many defects that were totally unacceptable to you and your wife. But what about the problems or defects that you couldn't see or that the home inspector missed? Heaven forbid if that urine also contained tom cat spray!!!

Lastly, as angry as you must be, and I am in your court, even though Cajun needs more $$$ for his "Gun Budget", the best advice that I have always received is to avoid court room proceedings and litigation, if at all possible. The only parties that win are the attorneys (no offense intended Cajun).

I would work with my attorney and realtor to fulfill the state legal requirements, especially insofar as filings and written documentation are concerned, to notify the sellers that their actions constituted a unilateral breach of contract and that you considered the sales contract to be null and void.

Once the legal issues are resolved, you can find a really nice dream home and work with ethical sellers to ensure that there are no post sale issues, and that you'll only have a small case of "Buyer's Remorse" that can usually be cured with alcohol, or a Mountain Dew!

 

[adwjc]

Touchy about their little union, aren't they.

They have a good lobby, that's for sure. That lobby got ALL the blame for the housing crash blamed on the banks. However, I never heard one story about a realtor who told a prospective buyer "This boom is fake and so is the money you are being loaned, walk away".

I have recently had my first recent experience of house buying in the US. As I said elsewhere, WAAAAY too snouts at the trough.

You don't know the half of it Steve, In NY, agents (bound by state law to a licensed Broker)are REQUIRED to belong to a local Multiple Listing Service to write contracts; the MLS requires you to join the National Association of Realtors and the NY State Association of Realtors, before they extract the dues and service fees. Included in the fees are lobbying fees (you can opt out of that one). These cost you an average of $1000 to $1100 per year, then there is your desk fee, website fee, advertising, postage, etc. Some brokers include those last few office fees, and take a bigger bite out of your commission split.

But you can make a few bucks if you manage to sell 6 or more houses a year.

 

[allthumbs]

I've read through the OP several times and this appears to me to be a case of "Divine Providence". allthumbs you and the Mrs. have been really living right.

For a home in this price range to be in this condition after only 4 1/2 years tells me that the sellers (owners) absolutely can't be trusted under any conditions, and that a prospective buyer shouldn't buy anything from them, especially a home. My wife and I have bought and sold eight homes since 1976. Always working with a realtor, we have seen dozens of homes before we made our final selection. We have always found the sellers to be honest and to have high integrity. They had "pride of ownership" in maintaining their home and the homes that we purchased from them were ready for us to begin enjoying from Day One.

That's certainly not the case here with these sellers. I would not buy this home (or any home for that matter) from these sellers, at any price. You were wise to do a pre-close walk through. You subsequently observed many defects that were totally unacceptable to you and your wife. But what about the problems or defects that you couldn't see or that the home inspector missed? Heaven forbid if that urine also contained tom cat spray!!!

Lastly, as angry as you must be, and I am in your court, even though Cajun needs more $$$ for his "Gun Budget", the best advice that I have always received is to avoid court room proceedings and litigation, if at all possible. The only parties that win are the attorneys (no offense intended Cajun).

I would work with my attorney and realtor to fulfill the state legal requirements, especially insofar as filings and written documentation are concerned, to notify the sellers that their actions constituted a unilateral breach of contract and that you considered the sales contract to be null and void.

Once the legal issues are resolved, you can find a really nice dream home and work with ethical sellers to ensure that there are no post sale issues, and that you'll only have a small case of "Buyer's Remorse" that can usually be cured with alcohol, or a Mountain Dew!

I hope it's this easy, I'm waiting to hear from someone before I make my next move. My wife is scared to trust them at this point and wants nothing to do with these people, she thinks if we would of let them "make it right" they would have come back later and damaged or vandalized something.

I'm mostly nervous because both agents work for the same company and that company also owns the title and closing company, if my agent sticks to the facts I doubt I'll have a problem, she was in tears for us and told the other agent that the house looked nothing as when we viewed it and made our offer on it, but I know how easy things can change with money involved.

 

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
Touchy about their little union, aren't they.

They have a good lobby, that's for sure. That lobby got ALL the blame for the housing crash blamed on the banks. However, I never heard one story about a realtor who told a prospective buyer "This boom is fake and so is the money you are being loaned, walk away".

I have recently had my first recent experience of house buying in the US. As I said elsewhere, WAAAAY too snouts at the trough.

***************
As a custom home builder I lost a fortune in the housing crash! We never participated in the phony artificially low rates which were buy downs, points (money) sometimes very substantial amounts kicked back to the lenders at closing. This also artificially raised home prices and put a lot of people right into negative equity if they had to re sale or lost their home. I am just touching on a very sore subject with me.

Now the tough part the above statement makes me defend a profession that I have deal with and have little respect for, Realtors or what ever you choose to cal them did not cause the housing recession, they like many including people in my profession took advantage of artificially cheap money!

The housing recession was caused by politicians wanting everyone to become a home owner and greedy banks WHO KNEW FULL WELL BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE, THE CUSTOMERS WERE NOT QUALIFIED FOR THE LOAN AMOUNTS!

At the end of the day the building industry, the poorly informed home buyer took the hit, and the tax payers bailed out the banks.

 

[hoosierone]

I was in banking for 23 years, mostly residential lending. We sold to Freddie Mac mostly, and the "jumbo" loans to Bear Stearns (who were very fussy).

Freddie Mac set the guidelines for loans they would buy. They were called "conforming" loans. If you received an application that met the guidelines, you jolly well had better approve it regardless of your personal feelings.

Picture a bank examiner, sitting across from you, asking you to justify denying an application that met the guidelines. Then picture the scenario if the applicant was a minority. It's easy to blame the big bad banks, but there is a lot more to the story of how the bubble occurred.

Did I approve loans that I was uncomfortable with? Absolutely. It was the age of ACORN, and politicians, sadly on both sides, who believed everyone should be able to buy a house.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Well there ya go... seller willing to replace carpet and paint. Sounds like the only thing unresolved is emotional.

You can rest assured that if you get a different house you'll soon experience a sinking foundation, leaky roof and a busted water pipe that floods the house.... and you'll never stop kicking yourself .

 

[johngalt]

I'm still a renter, so I don't have any experience with house buying, other than looking a few years back...

Me, I would refuse the sellers offer to paint and replace the carpeting. I would not trust that they would do it right. Instead, I would lower my offer to cover the costs to fix everything the way you want it, plus some extra for the things that you don't know about.

 

[allthumbs]

Well there ya go... seller willing to replace carpet and paint. Sounds like the only thing unresolved is emotional.

You can rest assured that if you get a different house you'll soon experience a sinking foundation, leaky roof and a busted water pipe that floods the house.... and you'll never stop kicking yourself .

Not really, my wife suffers from asthma and the stench in that place was unbearable for me. The emotional part will be done as soon as I'm legally released from this nightmare.

 

[Krell1]

The sellers do not have possession of the "earnest money". That money is held in an account at the realtors and becomes part of the closing. It can be held and eventually given to the sellers but only when it has been determined that you defaulted on the agreement. My wife was a realtor for a while and she says she'd probably walk out as well. To say you'll get anywhere in a lawsuit is another story. I could see you'd get somewhere over damages, both real estate agents would probably back you on that. You obviously didn't see that when you initially looked at the house or you would have made a point of it at the time.

As far as dirt, paint and carpets go, you probably won't get very far. That's all stuff you'd probably clean/change anyway.

That said, my wife has seen many a house in the same condition you describe. It's a shame to see it and we have to realize that not all people treat property the same. I've personally seen house foreclosures that have been left torn up and intentionally damaged by the people moving out. Don't know why they would do it since it was their problem that the foreclosure took place. It's like they want to hurt someone else for what they did.

Hang in there and do what you feel is right. I don't know where you are in life but chalk this one up as a lesson learned.

 

[Bekeart]

The sellers has proven they can not be trusted by trashing the property.
It is no longer in the condition it was originally offered.
Your wife will NEVER forget the disappointment she experienced during the final walk through. KEEP WALKING!

I'm mostly nervous because both agents work for the same company and that company also owns the title and closing company.

Next time do not have all your eggs to be in ONE basket.

Dual Agency - - - vs - - - No man can serve two masters ------- BEWARE!

Bekeart

 

[Mainsail]

What's sad is the OPs experience is almost becoming standard around here. We're in a serious housing shortage, so anything and everything is selling for asking or above. People who have let their house fall apart around them are getting top dollar because there just isn't enough inventory. The few new homes that are built are $80K overpriced, and people are buying them.

We've been looking for over a year now. I refuse to ride atop the bubble, it's going to hurt when it breaks. We'll keep renting....

EDIT to add a side rant: The biggest purchase most people make is their home. They'll pay on it for most of their lives. So why do some/many just let them fall apart? I see so many once nice homes out here and the people do not take care of them. Some say it because most people are barely scraping by, and home maint is too expensive. Other attribute it to laziness (why cut the grass when you can play a video game).

 

[AlHunt]

Well there ya go... seller willing to replace carpet and paint. Sounds like the only thing unresolved is emotional.

You can rest assured that if you get a different house you'll soon experience a sinking foundation, leaky roof and a busted water pipe that floods the house.... and you'll never stop kicking yourself .

They're not buying a house. They're buying a "home". There will always be emotion attached. The sellers and their agent screwed up when they lost sight of that fact.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Not really, my wife suffers from asthma and the stench in that place was unbearable for me.

Perfect. Carpet usually isn't the best flooring for those who suffer with asthma. Adjust price of house or allowance to cover new carpet that the sellers have agreed to pay. Use that towards replacing the carpet with hardwoods to make that "dream home" even better.

See how easily all theses things have come together for you... lucky guy.

Of course I'm being a bit facetious, but the larger point to all this kind of stuff is that if folks will just take a deep breath and step back for a minute these type of things typically work themselves out, and often for the best.

Good luck.

They're not buying a house. They're buying a "home". There will always be emotion attached.

I understand.

After building quite a few you learn that they aren't much more than sticks and drywall... it's the people who live in it that make it a home for themselves or not....

 

[allthumbs]

I guess I started the process, I sent the sellers a request for mutual termination of agreement, with refund of the earnest money. I just cannot sit around waiting for them to do something, my lawyer says (as many people here have) it would be very expensive for them to sue, and it would be very time consuming and not settled in court any time soon.
I hope they get a clue very quickly and resolve this mess they've made.

 

[dougb1946]

The ammonia smell is probably urine. Cats or untrained dogs. Or poorly trained children. Repair to remove the smell can involve tearing up wood, removing plaster, or serious repair to a toilet system. As the former subject/servant of three cats, I am an expert on this topic.

Hiring the lawyer up front can avoid the expense of a courtroom. Based on my experience with surprise fees, the lawyer will earn his fee at the closing.
Creativity exists in law offices. Some need work on ethics.

 

[soFlaNative]

I thought you ate dinner hanging upside down. I'm disappointed to hear you only sleep that way.

During the day they swarm the Dade Co. Courthouse.
Vultures.

 

[allthumbs]

The ammonia smell is probably urine. Cats or untrained dogs. Or poorly trained children. Repair to remove the smell can involve tearing up wood, removing plaster, or serious repair to a toilet system. As the former subject/servant of three cats, I am an expert on this topic.

Hiring the lawyer up front can avoid the expense of a courtroom. Based on my experience with surprise fees, the lawyer will earn his fee at the closing.
Creativity exists in law offices. Some need work on ethics.

The urine part is what made us not want to accept this house no matter what the sellers offered. I'm not sure, but I don't know who, if anyone would plunk down $350K and then before moving in have to get the place sanitized and fix or replace everything else they decided wouldn't matter to us. I'm mad as hell and the longer this takes and the less sleep I get until this is resolved is not going to make me any happier.