Webley Mark 4 Experts, I need your help.

[novalty]

My brother has gotten another crazy idea in his head. Unlike most people who looks for a S&W, Colt, Ruger for their first revolver/centerfire pistol, he thinks he needs a Webley MKIV--think he is looking at one chambered in 38 S&W. I have absolutely no experience or knowledge on these break-tops. Any info, suggestions, tips, advice, words of warning would be appreciated. Guessing I will be adding another set of dies as well to my bench.

 

[ACP230]

A friend has a larger Webley revolver reworked to shoot .45 ACP
cartridges.
It's fun to shoot and seemed fairly accurate the one time I got to fire it.

I would like to run across one of the short barrelled ones sometime when I have a few bucks in my pocket.

 

[Texas Star]

The MK IV .38 appeared in 1927 and was used in large numbers during WW II, as the govt. arsenal couldn't make enough No.2 Enfield .38's. So they procured vast numbers of Colt, S&W, and Webley arms.

Webley must have felt a certain satisfaction from this, as the govenment had had them develop that MK IV to replace their MK VI .455. But the govt. then designed its own Enfield, bypassing Webley. A number of British and colonial police forces adopted the MK IV. Singapore used some fitted with safeties, a sort of crossbolt design.

Most here were made frrom 1940-1945 and were marked War Finish to apologize for the rougher finish. Commercial Webley arms were nicely blued.

I think the bores are just slightly larger than S&W .38-200's. I have not read of any FMJ military bullets sticking in Webley barrels. It has happened with the tighter bored S&W's, although I doubt that it was very common. Some lots of ammo may have been underloaded.

These guns are very well known and are described in a number of gun books. What do you need to know? You could join Gunboards and ask on their British Gun Pub forum. You'll learn a lot there.

BTW, the commercial .38's were numbered in a separate series from the military .455's, first adopted in 1887. The final .455 was the MK VI, adopted in 1915. They began making the MK VI at Enfield Arsenal about 1920, and these are identical to the Webleys, save for markings. Quality was the same.

The guns are good quality, but are old. You might want to lay in a spare stirrup lock spring and hammer nose. Mainsprings break, too, more often than on Colts or S&W's of that era.

The final commercial MK IV's were made about 1970, I think. I don't know the exact date. Check Wikipedia. They probably have an article on these. Boothroyd's, "The Handgun" covers the Webleys quite well.

 

[therevjay]

Reliable guns. Like a air cooled VW they're so ugly they're kind of cute. Only real downside I can see is .38 S&W is nowdays kind of hard to find, and NEVER on sale. There is little differance between the Webley and Enfield. The Enfield is really a copy of the Webley.

 

[Texas Star]

Reliable guns. Like a air cooled VW they're so ugly they're kind of cute. Only real downside I can see is .38 S&W is nowdays kind of hard to find, and NEVER on sale. There is little differance between the Webley and Enfield. The Enfield is really a copy of the Webley.

The main difference is that the Enfield has a removable sideplate and differs in looks.

The cartridge is not too effective, although if you can handload the old 200 grain lead Super Police version, it's better.

 

[Stevie]

I had a choice between a slick Webely Mk.IV .380 and a 1932 Tula M1895 Nagant that was clean(non refurbed) with original fine checked wood and original style round sight(no import marks either gun) for same price..same table at a gunshow.

I went for the Nagant...then got guilty feeling and went back for the slick Webely...it was gone!..I almost cried...

 

[Onomea]

It's like that, isn't it, Stevie? I never get buyer's remorse, but I remember years later the things I passed up when I had the chance. E.g., an antique, black dial, gold Rolex in Macao, circa 1989...

 

[2152hq]

The 38 Webleys, especially the War time mfg'r can have some rather rough actions to go along with the rough exterior finish. Very heavy trigger pulls both SA and DA. The hammer spring itself is quite heavy and cocking them SA can get to your thumb after a while on the heavy serrated hammer.
The post war mfg'r are nicer made. Many have a side to side safety on the frame knuckle. It blocks the hammer and was at the request of some Police contracts. I think the Singapore Police bought many of those configured that way. The Singapore Police seem to buy a lot of guns from all over.

They will exhibit the same Webley wobble as their bigger brothers. The cylinder will rock side to side easily with the hammer down and the trigger forward (hammer will be at the rebound/safe position).

When the action is in the fired position,,hammer down and trigger to the rear,,,the cylinder will be properly indexed AND the cylinder will be locked up tight. Very tight..on a properly timed Webley Mk4.

They are quite easy to work on. Parts are not as easy as they once were to find. Springfield Sporters in PA had quite a stash of Webley 38 and MkVI 455 parts the last I knew.

Original grips are a hard rubber type material and can be brittle and break easily. Later production was a newer plastic,,shiney looking. It holds up better. But the WW2 versions to be original need the H/R type.
I don't recall if the 38 had different (hand) size grip panels or not. Either the 455 or the Enfield 38 did,,can't recall which now. Maybe both did.

Wolf springs used to sell replacement bbl latch springs for the 38 and the 455 Webley. The originals do break, quite often when people try to remove them for some reason. But sometimes they just meet their limit and pack it in.
Wolfs replacements were/are great quality. I don't know if those are still around either.

The last surplus Weblet MkIV 38's I can remember were some that SOG sold in the 90's for just under $100.
They had the cross bar safety on the frame. Seems they came from India as surplus.
BATF regs required a transfer bar also be installed in them to meet importation points.
They are easily spotted by a large screw in the right side of the frame.
I've seen 455 Webleys with the same transfer bar conversion.
Oddly enough the transfer bar itself is not that easily seen by a quick glance into the frame w/the hammer cocked.

The converted revolvers should be priced a bit less than unmolested pieces IMO. They will also have the 'importers markings' somewhere on the revolver which have been in force since '86.

 

[Texas Star]

Although MK VI .455 grips of Bakelite came in a couple of thicknesses, they were the same design. It was the Enfield No. 2 that had at least three types or styles of grips, and some were checkered; some grooved. The big ones were usually plastic, with a magna shape and built-in thumbrest.

The best made Webleys like the WG models and the ones made for Wilkinson Sword Co. had hand-honed actions and very bright blued finishes. The walnut grip panels often had a gold oval in one for the owner's initials. They were premium models made largely for sale to officers, who bought their own sidearms until 1920. To be sure, officers who didn't come from affluent backgrounds often bought the service models or similar ones, like the Webley Army model. It looked a lot like a MK VI with a rounded front sight like those on the MK I-V guns. Quite a few bought Colt New Service models or similar S&W's. And by WWI, a surprising number bought Colt .45 autos. Winston Churchill was among them.

But this has nothing to do with those MK IV .38's. BTW, those I've handled didn't have heavy, rough actions. Maybe I was lucky? The Enfield .38's do often have heavy actions, and many are DA-only. Tank crews complained about the hammer spurs catching on things, so instead of simply making the holster a litle deeper, they adopted a new spurless hammer. They had open-topped holsters. Had they simply gone to the regular Pattern M-1937 holster, those had flaps that would have prevented the problem and they lie closer to the body and are less in the way than is the tanker holster. Trust bureaucrats to mess things up in every country.

As far as I know, no Colt, S&W, or Webley guns had the hammer spurs altered.