Weird Sigma Discovery?
- Thread starter SAMPO
- Start date
nh40ve
Member
After reading the first page,i had to look for myself..here's a pic of my 40VE.
K,Fixed..
K,Fixed..
gatorhugger
Member
We dont need more pictures to prove anything.
All the Sigmas have it.
That has been determined.
I still think it's sucky, and until S&W can give a lifespan on their felt, it is the ONLY negative I have towards the weapon.
My trigger is worn in nicely, it's half the trigger pull when new, the gun is very accurate, and overall I think the Sigma is probably the best buy out there, but I don't like cotton stuffed in a spring. I am sure it's not big deal, but c'mon Smith, fabric in a spring? With oil, sand, solvents, it just seems stupid.
All the Sigmas have it.
That has been determined.
I still think it's sucky, and until S&W can give a lifespan on their felt, it is the ONLY negative I have towards the weapon.
My trigger is worn in nicely, it's half the trigger pull when new, the gun is very accurate, and overall I think the Sigma is probably the best buy out there, but I don't like cotton stuffed in a spring. I am sure it's not big deal, but c'mon Smith, fabric in a spring? With oil, sand, solvents, it just seems stupid.
nh40ve
Member
Is there a chance that they put the cotton there to prevent dirt and grit from getting into the spring and also to soak up oil to keep spring lubed...?
just a thought..
just a thought..
gatorhugger
Member
Rubber would be good. So you bought a new sigma and it has Rubber... Hmmm.
Sorry, just saw your pictures. Yours does look like rubber. No little bits of thread catching in the spring, yours looks smooth. My gun which is only a couple months old looks like a fabric material.
The one I bought this week I haven't checked yet, but I will, for sure.
I wonder if they switched from felt to rubber at some point very recently.... Like last month maybe.
If so, I am ordering some new springs.
Sorry, just saw your pictures. Yours does look like rubber. No little bits of thread catching in the spring, yours looks smooth. My gun which is only a couple months old looks like a fabric material.
The one I bought this week I haven't checked yet, but I will, for sure.
I wonder if they switched from felt to rubber at some point very recently.... Like last month maybe.
If so, I am ordering some new springs.
Walthernut
Member
In my opinion this subject is much to do about nothing. All the what if's and this could happen or that. The fact that someone poured water into the pistol to cool it down and the cotton or whatever washed out. So who in the the normal use of a pistol does that?
It has a lifetime warranty, so what's the sweat?
Cost? All that money? Suckey? Enough of the negative waves.
One person has reported a problem, take it for what it's worth. The spring damper should be in there so enough already.
It has a lifetime warranty, so what's the sweat?
Cost? All that money? Suckey? Enough of the negative waves.
One person has reported a problem, take it for what it's worth. The spring damper should be in there so enough already.
Back when the original Sigma SW40F's came out, I bought one when they first hit the shelves. Shortly there after a whole bunch of hullabaloo broke out in the gun rags about the "pipe cleaner" in the trigger return spring.
People were having the trigger return springs break left and right on the really early guns because of the resonance taking place in the spring coils, mine broke before I even had 100 rkunds through it.
They all broke at the same location on the spring... where the coil straightens out and forms the loop that is attached to the trigger.
The fix was that "pipe cleaner" and there was a warning issued not get it wet with oil or Hoppe's gun cleaner because it would no longer dampen the resonance breaking the spring.
It's still being used because it's much cheaper to just stuff the interior of a coil spring with that stuff than do a redesign and retooling to address the inherent flaw.
And let's face it, we all know how S&W will stubbornly persist utilizing a component of dubious merits rather than admit it's a mistake... like the internal lock?
People were having the trigger return springs break left and right on the really early guns because of the resonance taking place in the spring coils, mine broke before I even had 100 rkunds through it.
They all broke at the same location on the spring... where the coil straightens out and forms the loop that is attached to the trigger.
The fix was that "pipe cleaner" and there was a warning issued not get it wet with oil or Hoppe's gun cleaner because it would no longer dampen the resonance breaking the spring.
It's still being used because it's much cheaper to just stuff the interior of a coil spring with that stuff than do a redesign and retooling to address the inherent flaw.
And let's face it, we all know how S&W will stubbornly persist utilizing a component of dubious merits rather than admit it's a mistake... like the internal lock?
gatorhugger
Member
I disagree with you Walther, this is not
"much to do about nothing"
Many, most, of us had heard nothing from Smith about Spring breakage, or pipe cleaners.
Thanks to the good folks here we have learned something.
If there was a warning from Smith about putting Gun oil on the dampener it has long since stopped. I didn't see anything in my owners manual about that.
which brings up more questions, and it's issues like this that gun forums are exactly for.
Or maybe we just discuss 9mm head shots and become Glocktalk.
Was the warning for a different material in earlier pistols? Is the warning against oil still in effect?
Is there different material in different models?
If there is a part in a pistol that doesn't need freaking oil on it, and an actual warning was issued by the company, I think that is something significant to talk about.
"much to do about nothing"
Many, most, of us had heard nothing from Smith about Spring breakage, or pipe cleaners.
Thanks to the good folks here we have learned something.
If there was a warning from Smith about putting Gun oil on the dampener it has long since stopped. I didn't see anything in my owners manual about that.
which brings up more questions, and it's issues like this that gun forums are exactly for.
Or maybe we just discuss 9mm head shots and become Glocktalk.
Was the warning for a different material in earlier pistols? Is the warning against oil still in effect?
Is there different material in different models?
If there is a part in a pistol that doesn't need freaking oil on it, and an actual warning was issued by the company, I think that is something significant to talk about.
There absolutely has to be a better way to "dampen" a spring than stuffing a piece of cotton or felt in the middle! I really thought it was a joke when somebody suggested the factory actually intended for it to be a part of the gun. Add a little oil, Hoppe's #9, and powder residue, and it cannot last long. Surely after 150+ years of gunmaking, S&W can find a better solution.
cshoff
Member
I can assure you that the spring and dampener assembly in my Sigma has been hit with cleaner and oil on more than it's fair share of occassions over the past 5,000 rounds +, and it is still working fine.
My other Sigma only has about 2,000 rounds through it, but so far, it's spring/dampener assembly is holding out fine as well.
OP
SAMPO
Member
Ok, spoke with S&W customer service and was told that the felt piece in question is a factory part. Its purpose is to aid in lengthening the life of the trigger return spring, although "not essential it will ensure that the spring will last a couple more thousand rounds". It does indeed assist in dampening vibrations which may result in premature wear of the trigger return spring.... Oh well, lesson learned
As expected S&W with their exceptional warranty and CS are sending me a replacement spring (with cotton ball!).
Thanks again!
As expected S&W with their exceptional warranty and CS are sending me a replacement spring (with cotton ball!).
Thanks again!
I certainly hope S&W made some strides in the years since the SW40F came out in 1994 in developing or using a different material that wasn't so sensitive to getting wet.
They scrambled to get that fix out on the original Sigma's as they were trying to out glock the glock when the Sigma was brought out in a move to try and stem the tide of LE sales being lost to the plastic wondernine. The relative failure of the Sigma to recapture LE sales prompted S&W to evolve the metal framed pistols into the 3rd Gen's and used them to get back on the LE sales board. Ironic that they've canned the 3rd gen's from the regular catalog and are banking their LE sales on the poly framed M&P's.
I still remember getting a big chuckle when I did a side by side comparison with the G22 I had, and discovering that some part interchanged. In fact S&W got their butts sued off by Gaston Glock because the internals we so similar and S&W was forced to make some design changes in the next generation of Sigma's IIRC.
My experience with that early Sigma was so negative (aside from the broken spring, there were a host of other trips back to the factory) that I haven't been interested nor even looked at any of their poly framed pistols since.
I was quite surprised to find and read this thread to discover that the design had been carried forward to the new M&P's. From the sound of things with the diminshed experiences with spring breakage, it does sound like they did improve the "pipe cleaner"
Lee in Quartzsite
Member
The M&P's have the same material in the center of the spring. Mine looks pretty crudded up from lots of rounds and lots of cleaning. Guess it's a non-issue, gun still runs OK.
ih8suvz
Member
Yay, I have the cotton in my 9C. 
Crazy K38
Member
out of random curiosity I broke down my SW99 and it doesn't have the dampener but that is probibly because it was made by walther
Well, engineering a gun with an internal "dust bunny" is more than a little strange (& slightly humorous), & IMO it isn't exactly a sterling mark on S&W's technical prowess - BUT Sigmas & M&Ps work. What does one expect for the price - a 1911? So long as that fuzzy sucker keeps working, I say, LONG LIVE THE "DUST BUNNY"!
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