What are the odds of confiscation?

[Delos]

Didn't the gomment take gold away in 1933? I wouldn't rule anything out.

Everyone knows the value of guns and cartridges. In times of social upheaval guns and food have trade value. Not much else does. The difference between being a slave or a free man can depend on barter systems. The day might come when a 50 round box of .22 rimfire bullets can trade for enough grain to feed your family for a month. Or, in rural settings, keep coyotes away from your chickens - and rabbits & squirrels (on your table) away from your garden for a few months.

The days when you can take gold down to your local assay office, or trade it for a drink of whiskey, or tools at the hardware store is gone. Merchants do not have the tools to deal with it nowadays.

They kept the price of Gold at 35 dollars an ounce until 1971, during which time you could only sell your gold to the government. However, I heard in the 1960's, you could get 200 dollars an ounce illegally in San Francisco's China Town or in Mexico. Rumor is that Russia and China has tremendous amounts of land with very large amounts of gold. Rumor is they dump gold when the price is high. If you knew when they were going to dump you would probably know when to get out?
(Value of money depends on gross national product?)
News Release: Gross Domestic Product
We switched from gold dollars to energy dollars. Oil becomes diesel and gasoline and can run farm tractors to grow food, and factories to make farm tractors and anything else. Fuel can boil water for steam to run the turbines that turn the generators at our local electric power houses.
The price of energy dollars depends on world conditions and can be manipulated by oil cartels. We have massive amounts of coal in this country so coal and guns must be outlawed by those who would be king. (In my opinion)

 

[Delos]

My knowledge of the law may be limited,but I thought they couldn't use the Military to disarm civilians.
Even if they tried,most certainly would disobey orders,and not comply. The result would be chaos.

I believe the military got involved a little at Waco. Branch Davidian Compound. Tanks work really well.

I thought military helicopters were involved at Ruby Ridge also. Perhaps only as spotters?

Once a Policeman is shot they can ask for backup.

 

[walnutred]

ZERO, politicians are too worried about keeping their jobs.

Not really. They found out last November those who support the Bill of Rights are not organized enough right now to effect an election. Plus most have at least two years before they face reelection. In two years the focus will be on another crisis.

 

[Stophel]

My knowledge of the law may be limited,but I thought they couldn't use the Military to disarm civilians.
Even if they tried,most certainly would disobey orders,and not comply. The result would be chaos.

First of all, the Law is irrelevant. In their eyes, the law is the king speaking. Law is NO restriction for them, never has been, never will be. The only restriction is what they think they can get away with... and at this point, they can, and DO, get away with anything.

Second, the military ALREADY HAS gone around confiscating guns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tta1qhQZWSE

Americans are SO naive to think that their government is trustworthy and only there to help them, and that it would never possibly be tyrannical (most Americans have no capacity to grasp the concept that the "freedom" that they live under today would be abject tyranny in the eyes of our country's founders). People are willingly blind to what is going on around them. Content to recline in the comfort of their own gilded chains and sordid affluence.

 

[PeeShooter]

It wouldn't happen outright. I would argue it will bea gradualist approach beginning with restrictions. Then later the government will promote a National Registration. Once that happens the federal government would have a complete accounting of all firearms. There would be a period in which the government lay idle. Then, God Forbid, a national tragedy.

Then confiscation. Just like Germany.

Quit kidding yourselves the risk is extremely high. There's a reason for their wanting us disarmed and they must disarm us to do so and they will. And like every other freedom we've lost, apathy and the general stupidity of Americans is in their favor for a definite confiscation in the future; and probably not far off.

EVERYBODY still thinks America is the great place to live...not for long at all; America is doomed.

 

[VMaxSplat]

An interesting read from Paul Howe. http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/paul-howe/2nd-amendment-and-the-kool-aid-drinkers-by-paul-howe/

 

[Joewisc]

We're like the proverbial frog in a pot of water that very slowly heats up. The frog never jumps out until it's too late. Likewise, day by day our freedoms are being eroded. A little here a little there so that no one really is paying much attention. There are "warning", "caution," "danger" labels everywhere. The populace live by fear and crave security over liberty. The more "safety" we desire the less freedom. The majority now want the government to take care of them from cradle to grave. Work is the newest four-letter word.

If you think confiscation can't happen in America, I suggest you go to YouTube and search "innocents betrayed." Throughout the 20th century, many countries with tyrannical governments took away firearms from the law-biding who had no way to defend themselves. The Holocaust was one result; there are many, many others.


The great historian Barbara Tuchman crafted a law that goes as follows:

"Disaster is rarely as pervasive as it seems from recorded accounts. The fact of being on the record makes it appear continuous and ubiquitous whereas it is more likely to have been sporadic both in time and place. Besides, persistence of the normal is usually greater than the effect of the disturbance, as we know from our own times. After absorbing the news of today, one expects to face a world consisting entirely of strikes, crimes, power failures, broken water mains, stalled trains, school shutdowns, muggers, drug addicts, neo-Nazis, and rapists. The fact is that one can come home in the evening--on a lucky day--without having encountered more than one or two of these phenomena. This has led me to formulate Tuchman's Law, as follows: "The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five- to tenfold" (or any figure the reader would care to supply)

 

[Badkarma 1]

First of all, the Law is irrelevant. In their eyes, the law is the king speaking. Law is NO restriction for them, never has been, never will be. The only restriction is what they think they can get away with... and at this point, they can, and DO, get away with anything.

Second, the military ALREADY HAS gone around confiscating guns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tta1qhQZWSE

Americans are SO naive to think that their government is trustworthy and only there to help them, and that it would never possibly be tyrannical (most Americans have no capacity to grasp the concept that the "freedom" that they live under today would be abject tyranny in the eyes of our country's founders). People are willingly blind to what is going on around them. Content to recline in the comfort of their own gilded chains and sordid affluence.

The Marine in the opening was just covering his backside. Yes they do follow orders, but under no circumstances are Yiu obligated to follow and illegal order!
As for what happens in New Orleans, the police, national guard were t about to pick a fight with the various gangs roaming the city as they were prone to shoot first. No, it's far easier to enforce illegal orders on upstanding law abiding citizens who wouldn't dream of challenging a cop or guardsman, especially when there armed and wearing fatigues, these are the same people who would offer them a cup of coffee and/or a sandwich! They were an easy mark!
We have learned much since then, and are more knowledgable now about "martial law" or a weather related disaster. Lost innocence is what I like too call it. And repelling boarders is something I excelled at!
Will confiscation happen? Possibly but they'll do it by the numbers before getting heavy handed. So you must decide, will you fight for your rights, or give them up? Will the military get involved? I hope not, but some may due to peer pressure or orders like,"If you do not comply with these orders you will be courtmartialed!"
I knew enough old sergeants and chiefs that would give a shirt salute and report to the MPs than carry out such an order. But the younger crowd may not have the time in to disobey, or be suckered by surger coated words or promises of "fast track" promotions.
Thing is folks, anything is possible with the right amount of money, and/or freedom from criminal charges exceptions.
So you must decide to fight or flee, just don't comply! Dale

 

[Delos]

Stay focused

It is a really interesting study. The criminal drug gangs do not care if average person is disarmed or not. They get a lot of guns by burglarizing houses when both parents are working and kids in school. Guns from houses are easy to fence south of the border or by big city drug gangs. Guns, computers, cameras, are some of the big reasons drug addicts burglarizes houses. They know your money is in the bank.

Crazies will always be and act crazy. Politicians are not just suspicious about the crazies in the crowds - the politicians are at the paranoia suspicion level. When you look back at the pictures of the guy that shot Kennedy, the two ladies that tried to shoot at Ford, the guy that paralyzed Wallace, Hinkley that shot Reagan and Brady, (a dozen I have forgot) the Stockton schoolyard shooting, columbine, Virginia Tech, now Sandy Hook, it is all a list of crazies, most of whom I have forgotten. In the case of the young kids the idiots could have done better with an air gun and a machete. Poison and fire has always been tops. The World Trade center was taken down by the biggest and most maneuverable Molotov Cocktail called a Jet Plane with enough fuel to cross the ocean.

Our present anti gun politicians would love to clamp down now but a lot is going on and they need to not get distracted.
I think supporting the NRA and keeping the focus right is the best route.

The highest homicide rate has always been the drug gangs fighting each other and controlling their own in the biggest cities. I think either Oakland, Chicago, or New Orleans usually led the list. The hurricane in New Orleans disrupted the money supply to the point that the drug pushers and customers mostly moved to better areas for awhile.

It was educational to watch Geraldo Rivera at the sports center in flooded New Orleans with a small number of policemen out of contact with headquarters. No doubt one of the reasons they were afraid to go inside for a couple days was that the only ammunition they had was on their belts. Even being outside had them worried, as they look around at the faces they have arrested over and over. Or at the women that have come to visit husbands or boyfriends in the jail.

Anyplace near ranches their would have been a rancher with pickup trucks and rifle rack with those wonderful words "it's okay son I'll cover you".

But the cities have their own rules. If your city has a posse join it so you know their faces and they know yours.

As one person said "When the end of the world happens I want to be in North Dakota. Everything happens 20 years later here".

 

[IMISSMY681]

ZERO.

AFS

i think he summed it up

 

[PeterCartwright]

I think it's very important to keep our eye on the ball. REGISTRATION is confiscation...in embryonic form. All this talk about having a national "data base" and "tracking" = confiscation, i.e. it's what required to engineer eventual confiscation. The philosophical base of the Progressive movement rejects historical authority. The religiously progressive reject the authority of the Bible. The politically progressive reject the authority of the Constitution. Self-defined progressive ENDS justify nearly any necessary MEANS in order to realize a goal. That's why so many of those who currently have power in Washington are so little swayed by appeals to our Constitution and its historical context. Still, that context is real and important. This crisis is an important opportunity to inform/educate everyone we can about the true purpose of the 2A, viz. to recognize a God-given right to resist tyranny and protect ourselves and our neighbors from the same.

Someone needs to make a bumper sticker that says, "The Second Amendment ISN'T about HUNTING!

PC

 

[Travis15R]

What a delima... I want to be a law abiding American. But what do you do when those in authority do not repect the law. I am a retired Elementary principal. My question is... these shooters for the most part have been young men with issues or emotional disorders. Why has the government not done more about mental illness?

Because they don't care about what the real issue is. Never let a good tragedy go to waste to push the agenda of further gun control. People like fienesteine do not give a damn about those poor kids. It's was only a pathway to push an agenda

 

[vikgorr]

Awhile back I watched a DVD of a training film made for the CIA during the 1950s. It was about how the Communist take over a government and a country. Anyone care to quess where we are in this process?? Confiscation of All Firearms! The rest is already done to one degree or another.

Very true.

 

[vikgorr]

Confiscation as such might be never needed. It will go like that:
1) Few more laws making possession (of whatever would make resistance to MILITARY enforcement effective) a felony.
2) A law making anybody with a knowledge about possession an accomplice (with whistle blower awards).

These two will make let's say 50% of us to give up the guns.

3) Few highly publicized (and, of course, legal) house searches netting illegal merchandize, followed by 10 year sentences.

That one will persuade another 20%.

With 70% of the population feeling righteous now, 30% remaining will never get their toys from wherever they hide them.
And for you guys who pledge to fight the confiscation, keep in mind that it would be done by special units (military or mercenary), not by your local friendly cop.

 

[Delos]

I am sure you are wrong

Confiscation as such might be never needed. It will go like that:
1) Few more laws making possession (of whatever would make resistance to MILITARY enforcement effective) a felony.
2) A law making anybody with a knowledge about possession an accomplice (with whistle blower awards).

These two will make let's say 50% of us to give up the guns.

3) Few highly publicized (and, of course, legal) house searches netting illegal merchandize, followed by 10 year sentences.

That one will persuade another 20%.

With 70% of the population feeling righteous now, 30% remaining will never get their toys from wherever they hide them.
And for you guys who pledge to fight the confiscation, keep in mind that it would be done by special units (military or mercenary), not by your local friendly cop.

I hope you are wrong. Actually I am sure you are wrong.

I think most people are more afraid of the criminal than any police/court action, so confiscation will never work. The rich will always have gun permits. The people living in or near high crime areas will never give up their guns. Ranchers will always need guns to protect their animals.

Most of us know the big city schools need police on the school site arresting the young drug addicts and the pushers every day. A drug sniffing dog in ever school would be nice. It would cut all crimes in half.

The politicians seem to be the only people confused on these issues.

In my case I am so old that I have forgotten all the places I have hidden guns before the gun safe. My wife is a hoarder of old things and my basement is full of boxes and totes. Any police that ever thinks I may have anything illegal is free to look. They first must have coffee with me to help jiggle my memory and talk about the good old days. Preferably old policemen who remember that lady that went to North Vietnam to pose on enemy anti-aircraft guns. How does a person go to an enemy country during a war? I doubt if she went to Los Angeles Airport and bought a ticket? Why no charges filed.

A friend of mine often said ill-eagle is a mighty sick bird. Bad law is a sick government.

 

[vikgorr]

I hope I'm wrong too. Because if I'm right, then our government envisions potential changes capable of igniting a revolt. Something like bankrupt Social Security, or skyrocketing inflation, or going back into recession big time... You know, I don't believe for a moment that people on Capitol Hill or in WH do not realize that restrictions on guns can help prevent the slaughtering of innocent. Why do they do it then?

 

[Delos]

Thousands of drug gangs in our major cities

I hope I'm wrong too. Because if I'm right, then our government envisions potential changes capable of igniting a revolt. Something like bankrupt Social Security, or skyrocketing inflation, or going back into recession big time... You know, I don't believe for a moment that people on Capitol Hill or in WH do not realize that restrictions on guns can help prevent the slaughtering of innocent. Why do they do it then?

You are not wrong. They help ship factories to China and other countries while leaving our borders almost wide open.
When a factory goes to china they buy fuel in china. They pay rent to china. They pay taxes to china. They pay wages in china that are taxed in china. As they spend their wages in china it is taxed again.
In other words we gave a factory to China (or whoever).

With all the factories leaving, the only reliable wages and retirements come from taking Federal employment.

My father was born in 1901 and knew hard times. Basically he had his first few children before the "Great Depression" and the last two afterward. When I ask him about the Depression he said "we did not call it that at the time. All we knew was that there were very few jobs for average worker. The people who had jobs, like government jobs, had it made. They could buy all the household items from the people who were starving".

Mom said that one guy fed his family on grass. He take it home and cook it like it was spinach. He would ask people with good grass if they could cut their grass. They got very good at picking the best grasses. He wrote a book on it after the depression. His kids were as skinny as most but healthy.

Basically a lot of our leaders believe we need more socialism.
Better yet we need to stop sending factories, technology and even cattle types overseas. We could return to capitalism if everyone would just start buying American products again.

Otherwise the only ones well armed and organized are the Drug Gangs. They are not just a few thousand in each major city. Not just a few tens of thousands. It is hard to find current numbers.

I believe the below article is not only accurate, it has been happening for many years. I would guess since at least the 1980's.

Examiner.com
Number one threat to the U.S. is being invaded by Mexican drug gangs
By: Michael Webster
October 20, 2012
Number one threat to the U.S. is being invaded by Mexican drug gangs - Los Angeles LA | Examiner.com
(Most of first paragraph)
Some experts now believe America's number one threat today is being invaded by dangerous Mexican Drug Cartels (MDC's) and their gangs! The photo above is of a Mexican bar where the beheaded remains where put out on a stage. There have been more than three beheadings on U.S. soil recently by Mexican drug cartel members. American citizens have been reported to have been killed and kidnapped in Mexico and in the United States. Some Americans where kidnapped in the U.S. and taken to Mexico where they where killed by these very dangerous MDC enforcers. Most gang killings in America are related to drugs that are directly related to the MDCS, who supply the drugs the U.S. gangs traffic in.

 

[C.S.63]

An interesting read from Paul Howe. 2nd Amendment And The Kool-Aid Drinkers by Paul Howe

To the OP I would hope not,

This is a very good read!! Join The NRA!!! And write those Elected and those that are up for election!

I will just copy a and re-post part of MR Howes article ending,

Finally, it is claimed that the Battles of Lexington and Concord, in 1775 were started because General Gage attempted to carry out an order by the British government to disarm the population resulting in the "Shot heard round the world."

 

[Travis15R]

EVERYBODY still thinks America is the great place to live...not for long at all; America is doomed.

It surely is if you have given up and have a preconceived condition that it is doomed. We cant have the attitude of walking away with our heads down kicking rocks thinking that its a lost cause.

Regardless of what the odds of confiscation are the success rate of that for the would be very low b/c we have the 2A to back us. It is unlawful and illegal for our government to do such a thing, they can try but in no way do we have to comply if it ever came to that.

 

[Joewisc]

Cart before the horse here. In order to confiscate Congress and the states would have to repeal the Second Amendment. Until and unless that happens, there will be no seizure of firearms. However, the chipping away of the 2A will continue and restrictions will be applied such as mag limits and types of firearms allowed. Much like the First Amendment has been whittled away -- Obama forcing the Catholic church to fund contraception and abortions, for example -- the Second is being weakened.

Although the President and all sworn elected officials are constitutionally bound to "faithfully execute the laws" of the land their copout is that they can change laws at the stroke of a pen. The Constitution itself is viewed by most liberals as an outdated document that no longer should apply to a modern society. Fortunately, there are still a majority of Americans who believe it remains the unalterable foundation of our Republic.