WHAT BREAK IN PERIOD ??!!

[chief38]

I have a new pet peeve! Over the last few months, I have several friends that have purchased high priced and supposedly high quality guns from three different manufacturers. One was a $1,300.00 Kimber 3" bbl. carry gun in .45acp that came equipped with a laser sight as well as the Tritium iron night sights. Sorry I am not familiar with Kimber Models. Another friend purchased a full sized combat model, a Rock River 45acp and it set him back $2,700.00!! The third friend bought a Taurus Circuit Judge carbine and I believe he paid around $700.00 for that.

In each of these cases, the firearms did NOT work properly out of the box. In the case of the Kimber and the Rock River .45, they had multiple failures to go into battery and FTF with HARDBALL! If they had problems with hardball ammo, what would happen with hollow point ammo? Each of the Companies told my friends that the guns needed to be "broken in". Shouldn't a handgun from a supposed top manufacturer with a price tag like these come "broken in" and ready for action?? I think that having to put 300 -400 rounds through a "combat" gun in that price range to make it work properly is absolutely despicable, and I believe that they should come out of the box ready to go!

In the case of the Taurus Judge, after TWO trips back to Taurus to make the gun capable of firing a single cylinder full of ammo, and still not being able to do so, the gun store gave my friend back his money.

I have bought a LOT of new guns in my time and I have never heard of these extensive "break-in" periods, and so many FTF, especially with such pricey guns. What is going on here and am I the only guy to be so outraged about this? This now seems to be a very common thing these days. I keep hearing of "break-in" periods.....WTH?? I have purchased NIB S&W auto's, Colt and Browning auto's and I load the magazines and fire away; never had these problems.

What do you guys & gals think? Should it be like this or am I just getting older and irritable?

Regards,
Chief38

 

[firearmsunlimited]

Break-in period is pure BS. The piece will either cycle or not especially with hardball factory ammo. I have never experience any problem with a series 3 Gold Cup or a SA TRP Professional. With that said, in the event that your friends are hand loading there may be a problem with their sizing or seating practices. Concerning the Judge, you did not mention what type of problem the revolver was experiencing. Again, was the shooter using hand loads?

 

[Mediumbore]

The requirement for a "break-in" period stems from the fact that we want match grade tolerances and utter reliability. In the first 60-years of the 1911 pattern guns, you either had a GI-style reliable gun that was good to go under all kinds of conditions but only 4-5" accurate at 25 yards. Target guns were 1-2" accurate but a bit finicky unless fed hand-taylored loads. We now have target-level accuracy AND good reliability if we are willing to put a few boxes of ammo in to allow the parts to settle in and mesh together. I think we are coming out better for the bargain. BTW, I have a $1300 Kimber that balked a few times with hardball in the first 250 rounds but is now very reliable with ball and HP's. The only guns I have bought lately that were 100% from day one were GLOCKs. Some complain about their accuracy. You pays ur money and you takes ur choice.

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

New guns will be tighter than old shot out guns. That's a fact. So, new guns need to be cleaned from the get go to remove the shipping oils applied and recoated with a good gun oil. I've seen many brand new S&Ws bone dry on the actions. Oil your guns before use. Some guys don't understand this, and their first range session is a disappointment, plagued with problems. On auto loaders, most problems are magazine problems, yet they will blame the gun.

The action needs a little firing to hone in the parts, that is on a non custom gun. 50% of the guns hitting the stores are full of burrs, some have debris from the manufacturing process left in the actions. The assemblers need to make a quota and don't do perfect work, that's why they offer a warrantee.
As far as a barrel break in period, there is no need to break in a barrel. The bullet can't tell if the barrel is new or has 1000 rounds thru it.

 

[chief38]

FOLLOW UP ON O/P

The ammo used in both the Kimber .45 and the Rock River .45 was Federal 230 grain Factory Hardball, and the ammo in the Circuit Judge was Winchester 250 Grain RNFP lead Factory .45 Colt. The two fellas that bought these guns do not reload yet.

I purchased a Colt Gold Cup Series 70 National Match, UNFIRED, NIB a few years ago, and with reloaded lead ammo (230 gr. RNL) I have NEVER experienced a FTF or to go into battery, from day one I have a S&W M41 that I bought new and it eats anything you put in it. I have shot S&W M&P .45's right out of the box and they worked 100%. I can't imagine that service pistols are tighter than a Colt Gold Cup - that's the most accurate pistol I own!

Don't you guys feel that what ever "break-in' period a gun requires, it should be done at the factory? When you spend $1,300 and $2,700 bucks for a "combat" pistol, shouldn't it work properly right out of the box? Am I getting too picky?

By the way, the problem with the Taurus was that the cylinder would not rotate. It jammed up and was obviously not rotating symmetrically. they tried twice to fix it, and then my friend asked and received his money back.

Chief38

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

The Taurus revolver is , well a Taurus, and he got a defective one that should have functioned properly from the factory. Shame on Taurus. Kimber makes a good pistol, so does Colt.

Les Baer makes the tightest 1911 pistols in the industry. It takes 2 men and a boy to rack the slide when new. On 1911s, some guys like them tight, and Les Baer sells a metric ton of his pistols every year.
I feel Colt makes a loose pistol compared to the semi customs out there. They rattle when shaken. Remove the recoil spring and notice the slop of the slide to the frame fit, try that with a Ed Brown or Les Baer. Brown has slight movement, Baer has none.

Do they need to be this tight? No, but some people like them tight, sometimes they don't shoot until they loosen up. That's why old worn 1911 pistols will be more reliable than new Baers.

 

[chief38]

500 Magnum Nut

I can not argue with you over the Les Baer because I have never had the pleasure of handling or shooting one. I do hear they are fantastic pistols though. As far as the Colt Gold Cup is concerned, I am simply in awe of the accuracy the pistol will deliver. I can routinely shoot one hole groups smaller than a half dollar at fifty feet. It may not be the tightest pistol on the market, but I can not fault it for either accuracy or reliability, and as far as price is concerned, it is still reasonable compared to some of the "super guns" sold today.

The two pistols (Kimber & Rock River) are "billed" as Combat guns, and so I do not know why they would need to be tighter than a Gold Cup which is a Target pistol. All I know is that if my name was in the side of the barrel or slide of the gun, I would make sure it worked properly BEFORE it left the Factory.

As far as the Taurus is concerned, I agree with you........it's a Taurus! Still, for $700 bucks..............

regards,
Chief38

 

[dkees]

I am about to make a big announcement and you guys have helped me by emphasizing these problems.

I am about to become a "Break-In Specialist".

For a flat fee of $500 I will take your new gun and with 1,000s round of ammunition supplied by you, I will shoot your gun.

As soon as my new electronic ear protection arrives and I complete the construction of a backstop above the television in my family room, I'll make the announcement of my grand opening.

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

Colt Gold cup pistols are tight were they have to be, so they shoot great. The slide to frame rails are not critical on a 1911, but some handgunners are paying good money and want them tight everywhere.

I like nice 1911s, in fact I'm crazy for this pistol. 100 years young this year, and nearly every one has their copy of the original.
Even Remington is making them again after 60 years....

I have a nice Brown collection, I had a Gold Cup for years, and it was an exceptional pistol. I sold the Colt because it was a series 80 pistol, and I don't care for extra safties in the newer design.

I got my money back on the Colt, so I'm happy to have sold it and moved back to what I more prefer.

 

[chief38]

dkees:

Let me know if you need a partner in your new venture.

With all the new guns that need to be broken in, there should be TONS of business!!

Chief38

 

[OKFC05]

No sympathy on the Taurus Judge.

On the Kimber, was it cleaned and lubed before the first firing? There have been several problems at the range with them for lack of this preliminary cleaning and lubing. Apparently their shipping oil should be removed before use. I've "fixed" several just by cleaning them.
"Why should I have to clean it? It's brand new!"

 

[ikor]

All .45 230gr ball ammo no longer is created equal...Federal's Wallyworld stuff now uses small pistol primers, even. Federal American Eagle is the best I have seen out of the box lately. The RR is a seriously fitted match gun and I would expect some break in with it. The Kimber...well, I just don't buy Kimbers, but yes, it should work. The Taurus I won't commant on.

With the 1911's there may be magazine issues, ammo issues (believe me, some new ball ammo available today is pure crap) and shooter issues, not to mention that the 1911 likes to be run wet, and lots of shooters don't lube well enough.

 

[Old cop]

I'm also vexed by this break-in period thing. The Glock 23 my LE agency transitioned to back in the day worked perfectly. I still have it after retiring in '97, shoot it often (LEOSA cert., annually & practice in between) and it has NEVER failed me.

My daily carry is a J frame S&W which has also never failed me.

 

[chief38]

The .45acp ammo was Federal out of the silver/blue box which is their premium stuff. It was purchased about 10 years ago......how do I know, it was mine.

I suppose this new break in period thing is "the new normal" a far as I can tell.

 

[MSgt G]

My favorite range gun is my Les Baer Premier II with the one and a half inch guarantee at 50 yards. My favorite carry gun is a Les Baer SRP Commanche with the standard two and a half guarantee. What's a "break-in?" They have both shot flawlessly from day 1. Whenever I'm feeling a little "down", the PII and I head to the range - I can't help but smile starting with the first shot.

 

[chief38]

MSgt G:

And that's the way it SHOULD BE!!

 

[Frank46]

When I bought my sprinfield 19111A1 I was advised to put at least 200 rounds of hardball through it before trying anything else. Well 200 rounds of hardball went through it and haven't had a failure to feed, failure to fire or any of the ills that seem to befall these pistols. I used it for steel plate matches and outside of a few operator induced errors it has performed very well. Now this is a reworked springfield 1911A1 with all the bells and whistles. However my 1943 rack grade Ithaca has been
carried by a WWII vet in tanks, fired I don't know how many times and is loose as a goose. When I first started shooting the steel plates it was all I had at the time. Ran Flawlessly. Moral of the story is that maybe the new stuff needs to be broken in before going firing big time. Frank

 

[Peter M. Eick]

My Baer's have all been extremely tight. They all required a break in period and Mr. Baer makes no bones about it. I paid extra for that tight tight fit and love it.

My 45 PII only took one box of ammo till the jitter on the complete lockup stopped. That was over 8000 rounds ago and I cannot even begin to remember the last stoppage.

My 10MM HWML took about 500 rnds to really break in. I would get occasional lockup problems until around that period. But, I paid for a 1.5" guarantee gun and expected this. No problems in the last 7000 odd rounds out of it.

My 38 Super PII never had a bobble. Great gun.

Mr. Baer builds tight guns. You pay extra for that. Your choice.

 

[tomcatt51]

My Baer's have all been extremely tight. They all required a break in period and Mr. Baer makes no bones about it. I paid extra for that tight tight fit and love it.

I just shoot revolvers anymore but used to shoot competion and carried semi-autos. The above is the best response I've seen posted. If you want a gun that's "really tight" and shoots "really tight" goups it will require break-in (and cleaning and lubrication during the process) to lap the surafces together because "as delivered" it's MORE THAN "really tight" so that AFTER break-in, it's still "really tight", and will be for a long time with reasonable care, "really tight".

 

[russp1]

On auto loaders, most problems are magazine problems, yet they will blame the gun.

You mention most auto loader problems are magazine problems, not gun problems. What care and feeding do we need to give the magazines?