What happened to Quality S&W

[Tinkertech]

My Benelli Nova I purchased in ~2013 had rust inside the magazine tube, so did the replacement tube.
And WTH with the RED locktite put on extra heavy?

 

[Brian Parrish]

Smith quality control is following the Charter Arms business model.
If it is OK for Charter to do it, why not S&W?
Just know this, that the end user IS the quality control department. Plan to send the gun back for "warranty service" as part of the buying experience.
"But I shouldn't have to!" ...yeah, whatever.
People are reporting good results from Charter on their finally finished guns from Charter, but reports of S&W service are mixed. Caveat emptor.

Kind Regards!
BrianD

 

[WCCPHD]

Lack of quality control is why I'm not too excited about the latest releases from S&W. As far as "newer" guns, I ordered a 640 Pro and refused it when it came in because it was so "rough." Bought a 986 and the sight "walked off" the first time I shot it. Recently bought a Bodyguard 2.0. Had to go through 8 (large dealer with quite a bit of stock) to find one that did not have the off center sights or problematic feed ramp.

I'll just try to be satisfied with the 52 "old" S&W's I have.

 

[max503]

My late 70's Model 34 had to go back twice and I bought it new. This doesn't seem to be a new issue.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Smith quality control is following the Charter Arms business model.
If it is OK for Charter to do it, why not S&W?
Just know this, that the end user IS the quality control department. Plan to send the gun back for "warranty service" as part of the buying experience.
"But I shouldn't have to!" ...yeah, whatever.
People are reporting good results from Charter on their finally finished guns from Charter, but reports of S&W service are mixed. Caveat emptor.

Kind Regards!
BrianD

I would say that S&W has drifted toward the Taurus business plan also. I have a 625-8 and a new 856. I can't tell the difference in quality. They both look like they were built by the same company. Probably has something to do with the manufacturing process these days. The only difference is the prices. Guess which one is the least expensive.

 

[Hapworth]

The timeline on all this supposed poor quality seems to track directly with the rise of the internet.

If only we'd had online forums fifty, seventy-five, a hundred years ago...

 

[GnarlsR2]

HANDGUN USE: It is reported that 56.2% of gun owners carry a handgun for self-defense.

CUSTOMER SERVICE: “The current trend in customer service is a strong emphasis on proactive, personalized, and omnichannel support, heavily utilizing AI and automation to provide faster, more convenient experiences across multiple platforms, while still maintaining a human touch when necessary; essentially, anticipating customer needs and addressing them proactively through digital channels while still providing empathetic human interaction when required.”

QUALITY and RELIABILITY: A firearm marketed for self-defense in the general public should be designed and manufactured at an extremely high level of quality, reliability, and concealability.

Out of pocket COST: I will gladly spend $1,000 (twice as much) for a conceal carry self-defense handgun that will shoot 500 to 1,000 rounds out of the box with ZERO performance issues.

Where is the legendary Smith & Wesson on these factors?

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

Not a collector, but a long time user of issued and purchased S&W's since 1973. Carried Smiths both on the job and retired ever since. I feel I'm very lucky that my last purchased Smith is a problem free 317. While obviously not carried at all it is shot very regularly on frequent range trips.

Trained as a FA instructor and Armourer I've seen the decline in QC pretty much across the board in the high end firearms. At the same time I have to agree that Taurus has shown much improvement in closing the gap, as have others.

There's two J frames I'm interested in now. I'm hesitant because I don't want to deal with QC problems. Just to old and cranky for something I want but don't need. I have to wonder how many feel the same way? Revolvers especially are old man guns and you get right down to it we mostly have enough all ready.

Yeah, plastics is all the rage now. I have my father's Colt Woodsman. It's now 91 years old and my best shooting pistol. I have to wonder how those plastic fantastic wonder nines are going to be in 91 years? I wonder too about how many parts a modern Smith revolver will go through in that time?

 

[smitholdtimer]

"What Happened To Quality S&W"?

The question can be answered by stating simply, "The Lack Of Quality Control". When I began this post there were already 26 posts attempting to explain this problem and many others proceeding this one also have been discussed. We, as consumers, need to realize that those folks who could actually make the difference are not reading these complaints concerning their present product. The folks who make the rules also control the money and are only interested in making money without improving quality. I am embarrassed for the S&W I grew up with, the present philosophy doesn't present as a company who is proud of their product. Actually my concerns focus with the younger buyers who continue to purchase this new product not realizing it is living off the older product reputation. Apparently they are not aware that there are earlier products that enjoyed a stricter quality control. I realize that on occasion a new product actually functions as designed and in doing so produces a satisfied customer, could be we hear more of the failures and not the successes.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... but what happened to when you bought a new gun there was a empty case in the box and a burn ring on the cylinder and you knew it was shot and was ok.

Or i may be old school but i think the quality has gone down hill for what you pay for them.

I thought that was a good deal to have the empty case to prove it was test fired. QC has gone downhill after they stopped that practice.

I agree.

 

[UNCLE PAULY]

The empty casing was demanded by certain state governments to keep on file to track casings found at crime scenes. The practice was discontinued.

S&W used to fire three rounds to test and leave three burn rings in the new revolver to show it had been tested.

 

[rwsmith]

I am very.....

I just got a brand new 686 2.5+ and it’s a tack driver and runs perfect

I am very happy for you. I HATE disappointing stories when it comes to buying revolvers.

 

[Shoebox1.1]

And looks great with real combats. After rebate I think I’m 800 in

 

[rct269]

The problems we hear about here are not THE REAL problem, simply symptoms of THE REAL problem.

Back in "the good old days"----the first hundred years, S&W's philosophy was clearly We will be successful if we build the best possible product for the price ---and damned if it didn't work.

Starting in the mid 1950's they got the idea they could be even more successful if they build the product and run the operation at the lowest possible cost. That must have proven to be successful, because they're still doing it----even more so. They'll come to see the light when the supply of customers who don't know any better runs out, or when there's a new owner that does know better.

In the meantime that fellow up above who told us all his revolvers are old, is a happy camper----damn shame about the other folks.

Someone else up above wants to lay it all off on the CEO. Let me suggest the CEO is doing EXACTLY what and how the owners told him was expected of him---probably has something to do with job security.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Fishinfool]

It has always been about quality control. We tend to look at todays gun manufacturers with a certain amount of disdain, but seem to look at the older stuff through rose tinted glasses.

I am old enough to remember some of the good stuff was not really that good sometimes. Colt 1911's with mis aligned frame holes, "test fired" S&W revolvers, shipped without hammer noses attached, etc.

Nothing new under the sun, probably only exasperated by todays culture of workers seemingly not giving a ****, all amplified by the internet. Even in the days of hand fit guns, not all were necessarily good at their jobs.

Larry

 

[jeffrefrig]

I have been slowly noticing prices creeping up on another factory who's putting out revolvers "built like tanks." I've bought 2 new revolvers, two used, and two pistols, one of which I carry. No issues with them, though a while back there were some issues with them, too.

 

[rwsmith]

I've said before.....

It has always been about quality control. We tend to look at todays gun manufacturers with a certain amount of disdain, but seem to look at the older stuff through rose tinted glasses.

I am old enough to remember some of the good stuff was not really that good sometimes. Colt 1911's with mis aligned frame holes, "test fired" S&W revolvers, shipped without hammer noses attached, etc.

Nothing new under the sun, probably only exasperated by todays culture of workers seemingly not giving a ****, all amplified by the internet. Even in the days of hand fit guns, not all were necessarily good at their jobs.

Larry

That S&Ws quality control is now the customer. If it goes out the factory door it's a good gun. The customer has to point out the defects. But I hear a lot of stories about the factory saying skewed and under/over clocked barrels and such are 'in spec' and sending them back to the customer.

 

[Doug M.]

Lots of reasons, and not uncommon to S&W or firearms. There are stockholder driven efforts to make more profit, which means among other things cutting costs. Good labor is expensive.
Most buyers are not hardcore users of firearms. My guess is that a 500 round lifetime is adequate for most users. I have seen some pretty surprised responses to the testing protocols from Doctor Roberts - 500 rounds of duty ammo seems excessive to most. I am aware of people who shoot 1000 rounds or more per month in training and teaching. Outliers for sure, but good info on QC.
I have had 6 exercise bikes, broke the first 5, and have had significant upkeep costs on the last one. I bought it at a serious exercise place for not cheap. Serious users are not at all common. Most items of that nature are turned into coat racks within a month, and sold at a loss or pitched before 5 years.
My first generation Ford Focus had some number of stupid recalls in the 4 years I owned it. The successor did well. When Mack brought out the CH models, my boss/FIL traded for one. I drove it for a couple years, and it had new model bugs that made me crazy.
One must research and choose carefully with all purchases, not just guns.

 

[pistolpete10]

I'm glad it isn't just me. 6 of the last 7 new S&W handguns were,t right when I got them. Pitiful. Won't buy another.

 

[drcotlar]

No, you are not old school. The other party is new school.