What has happened to Smith And Wesson?
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VaRecon
Member
First off, I'm sorry to hear your guns are giving you issues, that's never fun. I have had a few modern guns, 329NG, 638, 640 Pro Series. I didn't have a single functionality issue. Not to say it doesn't happen. I'm lucky enough to have friends at the LGS so before buying a gun I inspect it very thoroughly inside and out and dry fire it with snap caps to see if it cycles. I don't know your situation as some gun stores treat the firearms they sell like high end jewelry, pretty to look at but they don't want your hands on it. My recommendation is to send them back, I know it's inconvenient but at least give them a chance to make it right before judging too harshly. Quality control is certainly important but I don't think there is a single business that gets things right 100 percent of the time. I hope they get it sorted out for you.
Very similar situation with my new 686SSR. My barrel was canted 5 degrees per the S&W customer service department and the lead revolver gunsmith at S&W. They adjusted the barrel to within spec, but sent it back with 9 vise marks on it. Sent back to S&W, they declined to do anything with it stating the marks were there before I sent it in. I would be fine with the marks IF the barrel were actually straight. Their "within spec" is still visually canted. Whats better, the first trip to S&W I was told it shot dead on, no adjustment to the sights. The second trip, my rear sight came back adjusted all the way to the right. It could not go any further. I inquired as to why it was moved, and was told they had to move it to get the groups required in order to leave the factory. I don't have any problems with the IL, and if I ever do, I will install the plug. It shoots great and the trigger is amazing. I can understand the OP frustration, and believe I too will stick older revolvers, specifically those with a pinned barrel.
Dave T
Member
I have given up the idea or ever owning a current production S&W revolver. What bothers me even more than the story about the OP's two guns is the way some on this forum have treated him for posting about his problem. The derision and insults (calling it BS for example) isn't what he should get for having what is sadly a frequent problem with S&W these days.
Dave
Dave
One would think that with computer aided design and machinery, a company could build a better product with closer tolerances, good quality and good design at a fair price. The new gunsmiths at S&W are accountants and lawyers. I have not bought a new gun from them since 1993, and it was the last new one I purchased. There are plenty of quality, older, used guns around. Buy them, and you won't regret it.
Vom Brunhaus K9
Member
Just got back Model 28 4in. Highway Patrolman. S&W replaced the cylinder and said they had to do work on the barrell. Cost was $324 from them plus my shipping it was $49 . After reading these revolver posts I am half afraid to take it to the range, not knowing what to expect ? The finish looked VG . Mike
Cruiser RN
Member
Hi Dave.When I posted about the second Model 640's catastropic failure I was basically called a liar and was Guilty until proven innocent.Thanks to a great many friends here who came to my assistance I still will post here.When the problems started happening with the Model 36 it was beyond belief.If this gun fires POA-POI it will stay in my safe but will never be in my carry rotation.I am letting people know about this failure of S+W QA because @ the wrong time it can get someone hurt or killed......Thanks for the support....Mike
Sounds great in theory, but I would much rather own a classic , 1968 to mid 1970's, muscle car than any of the "modern muscle" cars in production now. I can barely see the spark plugs in either my new Chevy truck or my wifes car due to all of the electronic everything stuffed under the hood. Things were made better WITHOUT all the modern machinery in my opinion.
M3Stuart
Member
From what little I know, I would say that your experience with your new S&W, or most any other (reputable) gun manufacturer's products, is NOT normal.
Canted barrels aside - which S&W gladly fixes; from my experience the vast majority of new S&W buyers are perfectly happy with their products.
Canted barrels aside - which S&W gladly fixes; from my experience the vast majority of new S&W buyers are perfectly happy with their products.
hahaha, that's why there are so many 1969 chevys on the road today!!
Modern technology is the product of our society today. If S&W could hand build every gun today and remain financially successful, I'm sure they would do it. If Detroit could build a 69 camaro for $1500 and meet all the rules, regs and laws and remain financially successful.. I'm sure they would do it. But, everyone wants to make $30 perhour and have another $30 per hours worth of benefits.... actually, we need to make that kind of money to live in todays society... 
Canted barrels aside - which S&W gladly fixes; from my experience the vast majority of new S&W buyers are perfectly happy with their products.[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't think that S&W should have to fix the canted barrels. I would expect the barrel to be visually straight from the factory. I personally spent almost 2 months FedEx'ing a brand new revolver across the country three times before it was "correct" according to S&W. My local gunsmith advised me not to shoot a revolver with a barrel 5 degrees canted, citing possible barrel gap problems, which could lead to injury or damage to the gun. I'm sure lots of guns are perfectly fine without any problems, but what about the ones that aren't. S&W is aware of the problem of canted barrels on L frames, the same as the magazine drop problem on their Shield 40's. I think they should step up and make an adjustment to their assembly process, or improve their quality control.
I honestly don't think that S&W should have to fix the canted barrels. I would expect the barrel to be visually straight from the factory. I personally spent almost 2 months FedEx'ing a brand new revolver across the country three times before it was "correct" according to S&W. My local gunsmith advised me not to shoot a revolver with a barrel 5 degrees canted, citing possible barrel gap problems, which could lead to injury or damage to the gun. I'm sure lots of guns are perfectly fine without any problems, but what about the ones that aren't. S&W is aware of the problem of canted barrels on L frames, the same as the magazine drop problem on their Shield 40's. I think they should step up and make an adjustment to their assembly process, or improve their quality control.
carpriver
US Veteran
I am sorry that you got 2 bad firearms from Smith & Wesson. In the last 2 years I have bought 3 new weapons form Smith and not had a problem. Yesterday I went to my local gun store and ordered a 686 2.5 " barrel. I still like Smiths, if I should get an out of spec weapon I will work with the company to make it right. I had a gun from another nameless company that had to go back 3 times before it was fixed, first time it was a bad sear, then the thumb safty fell out while shooting, then powder burns on my face from a barrel falure to lock up when shooting. The third time it came back I fired 100+ rounds threw it to see if it would work properly, It did, I cleaned and took it to the gun shop and sold it. I sold it because I did not trust it. But I made sure it was fixed right before I sold it. I love 1911s but this one was not right form the start.
longranger
Member
Nope, Taurus with a lock.
texagun
Member
It's truly sad to see a fine old gun company with such a rich heritage go down the crapper. Some of the junk they are letting out of the factory these days should never go to the dealer's shelves. I've been a devoted customer of theirs since 1965 when I bought my first one, a model 36 that I carried for 4 years in Vietnam. I still buy the old ones, but I haven't bought a new one since the 6-shot, non-lock 686 was replaced with the 7-shot model with the trigger lock and the MIM parts in the late 90's.
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686-1 (1986-1987)
Note barrel cant corresponds with correction to address poorly-machined front sight. Not only is the sight machined wider at the front than at the rear (measured at the base), it is located at an angle and not centered on the rib. How's that for some screwed-up work?
It bothered me a small bit when I first noticed this but the thing is, the gun shoots straight. The flaws are only noticeable if you're looking for them. I've learned not to let it bother me.
Note barrel cant corresponds with correction to address poorly-machined front sight. Not only is the sight machined wider at the front than at the rear (measured at the base), it is located at an angle and not centered on the rib. How's that for some screwed-up work?
It bothered me a small bit when I first noticed this but the thing is, the gun shoots straight. The flaws are only noticeable if you're looking for them. I've learned not to let it bother me.
cass
Member
CNC Machinery is great if it is maintained, programed properly and inspected on a very regular basis. A CNC machine that produces "perfect" parts today, may well be producing junk the next week. Eliminating Quality Control steps and personnel and relaxing manufacturing tolerances does not produce a quality part. Eliminating the human factor from the manufacturing process isn't always the smartest approach. S&W is a good example.
panamint
Member
I just bought a S&W Governor a few weeks back and finally got to the range to shoot it the other day and on the second shot the trigger locked to the rear after firing the round. I am waiting for the return label to send it back. I look at it as my gun will get a once over and hopefully they will find the problem the first time and maybe spot something that could have given me a problem later on.
Sure its disappointing having to return a new gun but that's life. I have had to send a Rugar and a Mossberg 500 back for repairs. I just hope the smith that gets my gun makes sure it done right, if not they will keep getting it back no matter how many times it takes. I wouldn't pass to gun to someone else to have the same problems with, what if the next owner was defending is family and the gun wouldn't fire. That would be part my fault for trading in a gun with a known problem.
Scott
Sure its disappointing having to return a new gun but that's life. I have had to send a Rugar and a Mossberg 500 back for repairs. I just hope the smith that gets my gun makes sure it done right, if not they will keep getting it back no matter how many times it takes. I wouldn't pass to gun to someone else to have the same problems with, what if the next owner was defending is family and the gun wouldn't fire. That would be part my fault for trading in a gun with a known problem.
Scott
I agree with some of the previous posters that it's sad to read in this thread derogatory comments about somebody who is simply sharing his problems and frustration in a respectful manner. I like all my S&W revolvers but as far as I know S&W is not a religion.
Arik
Member
Dont forget many years ago there was no such thing as internet where you could complain to the world. I bet that % wise back in the day S&W had just as many lemons nation wide. Just back then most people in rural Pa wouldnt know what Joe in Moose Knuckle MN bought and what problem he might have had
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