What might a ban look like? Respectful discussion please...

[CoMF]

You can't have it both ways.

How so? Please elaborate, as I'm uncertain what exactly the "can't have your cake and eat it too" reference is being made to.

I don't want another AWB and I hope it doesn't happen.

Neither do I, but be that as it may wishful thinking isn't going to accomplish much, unfortunately.

But if you're saying stats just support most HD situations involve only a few shots fired, then you're giving ammunition to the opposition, who continually ask "why" mags need to be over 10 rounds.

I can't say for sure one way or another whether the "stats" support either premise, but quite frankly I don't have the time to properly scrutinize the statistics bandied by either side and feel it's better spent on addressing other facets of the "debate." If studies like the one at FactCheck.org are any indication, both players appear to be guilty of "fudging the numbers."

I have an AR and love it, but the AR is FAR more capable of raining a shower of lead down on someone than a bolt or lever action gun are.

I don't shoot an AR to "spray bullets," or as one version of the old adage goes: "One hit is firepower. A hundred misses are just noise." Using it to "rain a shower of lead down on someone" not only constitutes improper use of the tool but also plays into the hands of those who seek to ban them.

You would also be surprised by the cadence at which a Lee-Enfield or Winchester 1894 can be fired in the hands of a disciplined shooter.

 

[Buffalohunter60]

Remember, the military will obey the orders they are given. As far as them turning on their own people, I would hope that they would disobey such orders. However, history has proven otherwise. An example is what happened when the US Army was ordered by Herbert Hoover against WWI veterans in Washington in 1932....and before that in 1781.

A few differences.......the military takes an oath to defend the constitution ....and its their rights as well as ours. They would be taking the rights of their children, friends and relitives and their own rights as well. I can tell you, it will not happen. There are many good men that serve this country and they are not all sheep, many also think for themselves and are not going to follow orders that go against the grain of a hugh part of this country. There are not just a few of us citizens with firearms...there are millions of us. The politicions are not going to risk the backlash that would occur when the military refuses to go along with an order that goes against the constitution, the rights of their children, friends and relitives and could start the second civil war against an armed population that numbers in the many millions. It would be a nightmare for washington and they are not going down that road. The military is made up of our sons, daughters, friends and relitives and we (the armed citizens of America) are a very large group. If you think there was dissent during the Vietnam War....that would pale in comparision to trying to take the firearms away from a large number of stubborn citizens that take our second ammendment rights very seriously. I know personally...I will never give up my right to defend myself and be at the mercy of any government....sometimes the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed with the blood of Patroits. I do not think it will come to that.......but I have lived free all my life and I am not about to change at this stage of my life. My freedom and the freedom of the future generation of Americans is precious to me. Our national cemeteries are full of men that paid the price so that I am still free and I will not let their sacrifice be invein and I will not let them down. We must never give up our right to freedom and self defence....the german people tried that and see what happened to them...history will repeat itself if we do not learn the lesson and stand firm. If we stand with the NRA...we are a force to be recognized. It gives us the political clout we need backed up by the largest armed civilan force in the history of man. We are not in a weak position.........if we ever give up our rights...we become sheep and that is unacceptable to me.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Tell me about it. It's gotten to the point that i will only go to the range on days that I KNOW there will not be anybody there. The worse the weather is, the better. Too many unsafe idiots out there. That's another battle, trying to ensure that these idiots demonstrate a BASIC level of competency before they buy a gun. Now that this has happened, you have these idiots stocking up on guns and ammo and they are dangerous.

I'll second that. I've seen young people on the range with these guns who (1) didn't know how to sight in a gun, (2) had no idea how to clean it and (2) didn't have a cleaning kit in any event. On one occasion I was shooting and caught some movement out of my eye. One of them was walking downrange to change a target while I was shooting. I packed up and left. I don't know what the answer is but I do know there are more of them all the time.

 

[zip777]

Man am I glad our range is not like that. HIGH emphasis on safety. We have audible and visual warnings and all MUST communicate with everyone on the line and agree on flipping the switch to activate it before anyone steps even a foot down range. When the siren goes off mags are pulled. Firearms cleared of all rounds put on safety and placed on the bench hands off.

Guess I'm fortunate!

 

[StatesRightist]

A few differences.......the military takes an oath to defend the constitution ....and its their rights as well as ours. They would be taking the rights of their children, friends and relitives and their own rights as well. I can tell you, it will not happen. There are many good men that serve this country and they are not all sheep, many also think for themselves and are not going to follow orders that go against the grain of a hugh part of this country. There are not just a few of us citizens with firearms...there are millions of us. The politicions are not going to risk the backlash that would occur when the military refuses to go along with an order that goes against the constitution, the rights of their children, friends and relitives and could start the second civil war against an armed population that numbers in the many millions. It would be a nightmare for washington and they are not going down that road. The military is made up of our sons, daughters, friends and relitives and we (the armed citizens of America) are a very large group. If you think there was dissent during the Vietnam War....that would pale in comparision to trying to take the firearms away from a large number of stubborn citizens that take our second ammendment rights very seriously. I know personally...I will never give up my right to defend myself and be at the mercy of any government....sometimes the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed with the blood of Patroits. I do not think it will come to that.......but I have lived free all my life and I am not about to change at this stage of my life. My freedom and the freedom of the future generation of Americans is precious to me. Our national cemeteries are full of men that paid the price so that I am still free and I will not let their sacrifice be invein and I will not let them down. We must never give up our right to freedom and self defence....the german people tried that and see what happened to them...history will repeat itself if we do not learn the lesson and stand firm. If we stand with the NRA...we are a force to be recognized. It gives us the political clout we need backed up by the largest armed civilan force in the history of man. We are not in a weak position.........if we ever give up our rights...we become sheep and that is unacceptable to me.

Which is why the Government signed the The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, they can bring in Canadians to do their dirty work, along with the UN of course.

 

[Buffalohunter60]

Which is why the Government signed the The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, they can bring in Canadians to do their dirty work, along with the UN of course.

Ever notice that the UN is made up mostly of US soldiers. The Canadians are not about to come down here to "try" to take the weapons away from millions of citizens that are not about to roll over no more than US soldiers would go to Canada to do the same there...it wont happen, and it would also be unsucessful. We had over 500K men in vietnam trying to control the VC...and we were not very sucessful...they were a tiny force compared to the armed US citizens. No one can take our weapons from us.......if we do not give them up....the numbers are not there and the risk ourweighs the reward by alot. All we need to do is support the NRA and give them the ammo (cash) to fight the legal battle...and knowing we back them up with the resolve that we will not surrender our second ammendment rights to no force or government and taking them away from us is not going to happen. To put it simply...it would be like a mouse trying to disarm an elephant.

 

[KJM]

To those you you that think the military will turn on the American people....I served and I would refuse an order to take away the second ammendment rights. I have friends that serve and they would not turn on their own people, many of them hunt and love their freedom. They are the ones that pay for our freedom with their life and limbs. The military was used to prevent washington DC from being burned in the 60's and I had friends that were there in the military....different situtation. Protecting the country against civil destruction is one thing....taking away citizens rights is quite another...as they are also citizens that will lose their rights along with the rest of us. I will put my faith in my brothers that serve us so well and I have talked with many of them and also some police officers to get their take on all of this......its their rights also and history does repeat itself...it only takes one Hitler to destroy a government and it can happen here. I do trust the military, yes...some are sheep and will do what ever they are told....but many are not and will stand up for what is right when it comes to our constitutional rights, its their constitution also and their rights....and there are millions of "us" Even during the Mai lia massacure...many refused an order to murder civilans...while others did as ordered and an American officer (Thompson) landed his helicopter and put a stop to the murder of civilans. he had the courage and the guts to stop what was clearly murder. There are many good men serving and I will put my faith in them, they defend our freedom every day and I honor those that serve, they are n ot about to take away the rights of their brothers, sons, daughters, wives and relitives. There are many that serve that have the guts to put their life on the line for what they believe in and most believe in our freedom and constitutional rights. God Bless all of them.

Yeah, watch the video where they went all OO RAH on the old lady after HURRICANE KATRINA....
and all the others that were also disarmed. Someone had a video on here of that.... six minutes of abuses...... cops and Military.
The soldier that said something to the effect of he would hate to have to shoot an American... didnt say he wouldnt...
Oh... one of his Responses was "Marines follow orders"...


so, YOU may not........... don't claim to know what others would do. I just watched what happened. That spoke volumes.

If someone has that link, throw it up again. People all need to see that.

 

[KJM]

A few differences.......the military takes an oath to defend the constitution ....and its their rights as well as ours. They would be taking the rights of their children, friends and relitives and their own rights as well. I can tell you, it will not happen. There are many good men that serve this country and they are not all sheep, many also think for themselves and are not going to follow orders that go against the grain of a hugh part of this country. There are not just a few of us citizens with firearms...there are millions of us. The politicions are not going to risk the backlash that would occur when the military refuses to go along with an order that goes against the constitution, the rights of their children, friends and relitives and could start the second civil war against an armed population that numbers in the many millions. It would be a nightmare for washington and they are not going down that road. The military is made up of our sons, daughters, friends and relitives and we (the armed citizens of America) are a very large group. If you think there was dissent during the Vietnam War....that would pale in comparision to trying to take the firearms away from a large number of stubborn citizens that take our second ammendment rights very seriously. I know personally...I will never give up my right to defend myself and be at the mercy of any government....sometimes the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed with the blood of Patroits. I do not think it will come to that.......but I have lived free all my life and I am not about to change at this stage of my life. My freedom and the freedom of the future generation of Americans is precious to me. Our national cemeteries are full of men that paid the price so that I am still free and I will not let their sacrifice be invein and I will not let them down. We must never give up our right to freedom and self defence....the german people tried that and see what happened to them...history will repeat itself if we do not learn the lesson and stand firm. If we stand with the NRA...we are a force to be recognized. It gives us the political clout we need backed up by the largest armed civilan force in the history of man. We are not in a weak position.........if we ever give up our rights...we become sheep and that is unacceptable to me.

So much for Oaths huh?

Firearm confiscation Katrina - YouTube

 

[DrDyno]

Here's what's possible! (No clickey necessary.)

NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina - YouTube

 

[rwsmith]

I find this a problem, too.

Interesting that the uneducated view the .223/5.56 as a high powered ammo. The 30-06 is twice as powerful and some of the.50 cals have 10x the energy. Everyone should call their state and federal representatives and offer to help educate them. Offer to take them to a gun store or range and show them the difference. Help them to realize that they need to focus on illegal guns not the legal ones.

I think a lot of people are arguing about guns that don't really know anything about guns. And I say that most anti-gun nuts fall into that category.

 

[zip777]

After watching 5 minutes of that video I've come to a few conclusions.

- if you can stay in your home do and don't broadcast what you have
- if you have to move to another locale and surrender non-essentials do it quickly
- if asked if you have em on the way out answer is "no sir just trying to get my family to safety"

If it all goes south making the right decisions quickly is key. It really depends on what you feel you must preserve and what you are willing to give up.

In this situation the authorities were trying to squelch looting. The ones I saw on the video either showed their firearms, talked about them or were caught with them. The preacher lady stayed in her house to herself. Sounds like they tried to take hers but were not successful.

Firearms or not I'll be gone. The bank can eat my fictitious debt. Survive and protect family first....possessions last.

Just my 2 cents based on the few minutes I watched.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Regarding the video, I can see what happened then and can happen again. You take a group of (mostly young) people, put them through training similar to Marine boot camp, give them an "assault" rifle, body armor, pump them up and....send them into a civilian environment to deal with average law abiding people. That's a receipt for disaster because that's all they know, they have no training in diplomacy and dealing with civilians. Everyone is seen as a potential enemy and treated accordingly.

 

[jaykellogg]

I would guess that harmful legislation could pass the US Senate, but IMO is unlikely to pass in the house. Understand, politicians like to take a public stand. If a Senator thinks that legislation is not likely to pass the house he or she may be more likely to vote for or against it. If he or she is in a "safe" seat then they vote the way they feel like Diane Feinstein. If he or she thinks there may be a primary fight or perhaps a difficult re election then it pretty much comes down to which side can deliver the votes and campaign donations. The NRA is famous for having a long memory. I am going out on a limb and suggest that Harry Ried will keep legislation bottled up to keep Senators from voting for restrictive legislation. If there is a vote in the Senate, then there will be less "moderate" senators. (I am actually sad about the loss of moderates). It seems to me that the TEA Party has (in appearance anyway) peaked. This will help the TEA Party.

I do not know what the administration can/cannot do by executive order. Perhaps ban the importation of AK-47's. If they do that then perhaps we will see AK-47's made in the USA.

In closing, to me a letter to the editor is not going to change anyone's position, but there is a LOT of inaccurate information. Keep looking at the attacks in the newspaper and respond when you see inaccuracies. Keep the replies respectful so you do not turn off people on the fence. As Mark Twain said (not original to him) "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

[Buffalohunter60]

So much for Oaths huh?

Firearm confiscation Katrina - YouTube

GunWeek.com
That was a sad day in America and It was also illegal. I know if anyone came into my home with weapons pointed at me...they would be engaged in the same manner. I doubt this will ever happen again as it was totally illegal .....sad part is...who ever made that decision should have done prison time. Its one thing to combat looters and I think that was the origonal intent but someone made a bad decision. I know I would not give my weapons up and dread the thought of engaging my countrymen more than losing my own life, but you either stand for your rights or be a victim and I will not be a victim. This life is a short one at best but I will live it as a free man, if my freedom is gone, there is no need to be here.

 

[Buffalohunter60]

What happened in waco texas was also a sad day in America when the government killed a lot of innocent people in Waco texas.....a lot of children died for nothing but ego. David Koresh could have been arrested easily by using a little common sence...like he went for a run every morning....did not have to have a big confrontation that only leads to a lot of innocent people dying. One more reason I will never give up my right to self defence. If I were still serving in the military, I also would not be any part of taking rights away from my countrymen...orders or no orders. I still have faith in our military and they are the only reason we are still free today, someone made a big mistake and a bad call and it will not be the last one they ever make.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I would LOVE to discuss this in a withering, logical and fact-based manner.

Unfortunately, political discussion is forbidden here, and under the circumstances, in no way could I be respectful of anyone who would propose such draconian and unconstitutional rubbish.

Sorry.

John

 

[StatesRightist]

GunWeek.com
That was a sad day in America and It was also illegal. I know if anyone came into my home with weapons pointed at me...they would be engaged in the same manner. I doubt this will ever happen again as it was totally illegal .....sad part is...who ever made that decision should have done prison time. Its one thing to combat looters and I think that was the origonal intent but someone made a bad decision. I know I would not give my weapons up and dread the thought of engaging my countrymen more than losing my own life, but you either stand for your rights or be a victim and I will not be a victim. This life is a short one at best but I will live it as a free man, if my freedom is gone, there is no need to be here.

I agree 100% on your sentiment on resistance.

However, we disagree on it happening again. Katrina was during Bush. Please tell me, how you can possibly think the current occupant of the White House won't do a hundred times worse when he gets a a chance. You are guilty of wishful thinking. There are plenty of non-thinking drones in the Armed Services and Police who'd take orders from anyone, we both know or have known, some of them. Though, I do think it would be evenly divided between men of honor and the goose stepping traitors.

 

[handejector]

No doubt in my mind a ban of some sort is coming. I've read everything out there from "they're going to kick in your door" to "not much will happen"...

So what do YOU think a ban will look like??

OK, asked and answered.
I don't see what purpose more speculation will serve.
I think our time is better spent fighting as hard as we can.

Get your letters and emails sent.
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