What might a ban look like? Respectful discussion please...

[Comrad]

Shhhh, keep this under your hat.... I think the nuts and the criminals will ignore the new laws just like the ignore the old laws.

 

[SonnyCrockett]

I think 30 round AR-15 magazines will be banned and some sort of assault weapons ban...

x2......
I dont think with millions of mags and AR/AKs already in circulation and it being such a huge industry and job creator
there is not much they can do, the rifle represents the smallest percentage or homicides of all the calibers annually at 350 ,to me the numbers just dont add up....I think they could make NICS more stringent and harder to actually qualify for a rifle but of they really wanted to save lives they would ban the 22LR,the biggest killer of all weapons combined

 

[kbm6893]

Ban of privates sales

Magazine limit of five rounds for rifles and ten for handguns

Ban on the sale of any post 1945 military caliber ammunition.

National FOID card

Mandatory mental health checks of an arbitrary nature

Ban on sale of centerfire handguns of greater than 32 caliber

Ban on sale of handguns below a certain size

Shotgun mags restricted to two or three rounds

Ban on 12 gauge shotguns

No further production of any semiauto long guns

No transfer of current semi autos or high cap mags save MAYBE by inheritance.

Higher excise tax.on what guns and ammo are sold.

Requirement to purchase gun owners liability insurance

Mandated warrantless police inspections for safe stprage checks

Mandate a safe and that guns and ammo be locked up seperatelty. Safes must meet Federal requirements.

Gun owners must submit prints and dna for FOID card

Ban on reloading

Ban on possession of hollow point handgun ammo

TSA gun checkpoints on highways

Military orders forbidding privately owned weapons

Ban on shotgun bbls below 28 "

Ban on "sniper scopes" that covers Eotechs and the like

Min age for all firearms purchases raised to 21

Ban on private military associations...camo uniforms...body armor etc that is inclusive even of civil war reenacting

Ban on lead ammunition

Anti terror tactics being allowed to prosecute gun criminals - water boarding...trip to Gitmo...secret tribunals







Misinformation. An AR is no more dangerous than any other rifle. Stating that some new folks just cannot safely have them plays right into the hands of the antis. All standard 5.56 including GI green tip is no more - and many times less - over penetrative than common pistol rounds. Anyone smart enough to fill out their name on the forms is likely able to understand an AR manual or they can download the Army one which has even more picures.

It's not the ammo that makes the AR "more dangerous". it's the ability to fire 20 or 30 shots REALLY fast, and if you are in a HD situation, you WILL FIRE MANY shots. Sure, a .30-06 is much more powerful, but how many people work the bolt 5 times?

And while a new gun owner SHOULD read the manual or download one if they lose it, MANY DON'T, which is a personal peeve of mine. I have left TOO MANY ranges and gunstores because of the unsafe behavior of the shooters, the customers, AND the clerks! A good friend of mine who lived in Florida at the time, owned an XD9 for TWO years before I came to visit him. I asked where he kept the gun and he said "it's in my sock drawer". I told him that wasn't wise because of his young daughter and he said, "it's OK. The mag is on the top of the closet". I go to check the weapon and a live round pops out. He hadn't shot the gun in over a year. He had NO idea that the gun was still loaded if you took the mag out. Now multiply THAT by MILLIONS of other idiots who should never touch a weapon.

 

[zip777]

It's not the ammo that makes the AR "more dangerous". it's the ability to fire 20 or 30 shots REALLY fast, and if you are in a HD situation, you WILL FIRE MANY shots. Sure, a .30-06 is much more powerful, but how many people work the bolt 5 times?

Irrelevant. Nearly all semi's can do the same thing. You want all of them banned when the real problem isn't even the firearm type? Not trying to start an argument just asking the question.

 

[CoMF]

It's not the ammo that makes the AR "more dangerous". it's the ability to fire 20 or 30 shots REALLY fast...

If it could be demonstrated that some firearms can be fired and/or reloaded just as quickly as an AR, would that not throw the logic of the above statement into question? What makes such a firearm any "more dangerous" than one which does not share those characteristics when you consider that all firearms are dangerous if misused?

...and if you are in a HD situation, you WILL FIRE MANY shots.

If this statement is true, can it be substantiated with documented cases of such incidents? How do situations where only one or a few shots were necessary to "resolve" the home invasions factor in, or ones where the mere sight of a firearm was sufficient enough to make the home invader flee?

I'm not accusing you of holding these views yourself, but simply trying to demonstrate how such arguments have little basis in sound reasoning and shouldn't be relied upon by anyone who chooses to use them.

 

[2hawk]

It's not the ammo that makes the AR "more dangerous". it's the ability to fire 20 or 30 shots REALLY fast, and if you are in a HD situation, you WILL FIRE MANY shots.
...

Got a cite for the HD, many shots remark? FBI stats seem to indicate otherwise. And as far as how fast you can shoot, just look at any action competition. A person competent with a modern arm can shoot REALLY fast.
This line of thinking will have banners after revolvers, I mean, just look at Jerry Miculek.

World Record 12 Shots In Under 3 Seconds - YouTube

 

[Buffalohunter60]

To those you you that think the military will turn on the American people....I served and I would refuse an order to take away the second ammendment rights. I have friends that serve and they would not turn on their own people, many of them hunt and love their freedom. They are the ones that pay for our freedom with their life and limbs. The military was used to prevent washington DC from being burned in the 60's and I had friends that were there in the military....different situtation. Protecting the country against civil destruction is one thing....taking away citizens rights is quite another...as they are also citizens that will lose their rights along with the rest of us. I will put my faith in my brothers that serve us so well and I have talked with many of them and also some police officers to get their take on all of this......its their rights also and history does repeat itself...it only takes one Hitler to destroy a government and it can happen here. I do trust the military, yes...some are sheep and will do what ever they are told....but many are not and will stand up for what is right when it comes to our constitutional rights, its their constitution also and their rights....and there are millions of "us" Even during the Mai lia massacure...many refused an order to murder civilans...while others did as ordered and an American officer (Thompson) landed his helicopter and put a stop to the murder of civilans. he had the courage and the guts to stop what was clearly murder. There are many good men serving and I will put my faith in them, they defend our freedom every day and I honor those that serve, they are n ot about to take away the rights of their brothers, sons, daughters, wives and relitives. There are many that serve that have the guts to put their life on the line for what they believe in and most believe in our freedom and constitutional rights. God Bless all of them.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

Putting the M1 carbine on that list is just stupid. a 70 year old weapon is an "assault weapon"?

I would like to see how they would be able to ban that weapon especially when congress passed the CMP program Title 36 U. S. Code, 0701-40733 allowing for us to own one.

James

 

[2hawk]

They'll do it if you let them.
At least join the NRA.

NRA Online Membership

and WRITE YOUR REPS!:
NRA-ILA | Write Your Reps

 

[kbm6893]

If it could be demonstrated that some firearms can be fired and/or reloaded just as quickly as an AR, would that not throw the logic of the above statement into question? What makes such a firearm any "more dangerous" than one which does not share those characteristics when you consider that all firearms are dangerous if misused?



If this statement is true, can it be substantiated with documented cases of such incidents? How do situations where only one or a few shots were necessary to "resolve" the home invasions factor in, or ones where the mere sight of a firearm was sufficient enough to make the home invader flee?

I'm not accusing you of holding these views yourself, but simply trying to demonstrate how such arguments have little basis in sound reasoning and shouldn't be relied upon by anyone who chooses to use them.

You can't have it both ways. I don't want another AWB and I hope it doesn't happen. But if you're saying stats just support most HD situations involve only a few shots fired, then you're giving ammunition to the opposition, who continually ask "why" mags need to be over 10 rounds.

I have an AR and love it, but the AR is FAR more capable of raining a shower of lead down on someone than a bolt or lever action gun are.

 

[CoMF]

You can't have it both ways.

How so? Please elaborate, as I'm uncertain what exactly the "can't have your cake and eat it too" reference is being made to.

I don't want another AWB and I hope it doesn't happen.

Neither do I, but be that as it may wishful thinking isn't going to accomplish much, unfortunately.

But if you're saying stats just support most HD situations involve only a few shots fired, then you're giving ammunition to the opposition, who continually ask "why" mags need to be over 10 rounds.

I can't say for sure one way or another whether the "stats" support either premise, but quite frankly I don't have the time to properly scrutinize the statistics bandied by either side and feel it's better spent on addressing other facets of the "debate." If studies like the one at FactCheck.org are any indication, both players appear to be guilty of "fudging the numbers."

I have an AR and love it, but the AR is FAR more capable of raining a shower of lead down on someone than a bolt or lever action gun are.

I don't shoot an AR to "spray bullets," or as one version of the old adage goes: "One hit is firepower. A hundred misses are just noise." Using it to "rain a shower of lead down on someone" not only constitutes improper use of the tool but also plays into the hands of those who seek to ban them.

You would also be surprised by the cadence at which a Lee-Enfield or Winchester 1894 can be fired in the hands of a disciplined shooter.

 

[Buffalohunter60]

Remember, the military will obey the orders they are given. As far as them turning on their own people, I would hope that they would disobey such orders. However, history has proven otherwise. An example is what happened when the US Army was ordered by Herbert Hoover against WWI veterans in Washington in 1932....and before that in 1781.

A few differences.......the military takes an oath to defend the constitution ....and its their rights as well as ours. They would be taking the rights of their children, friends and relitives and their own rights as well. I can tell you, it will not happen. There are many good men that serve this country and they are not all sheep, many also think for themselves and are not going to follow orders that go against the grain of a hugh part of this country. There are not just a few of us citizens with firearms...there are millions of us. The politicions are not going to risk the backlash that would occur when the military refuses to go along with an order that goes against the constitution, the rights of their children, friends and relitives and could start the second civil war against an armed population that numbers in the many millions. It would be a nightmare for washington and they are not going down that road. The military is made up of our sons, daughters, friends and relitives and we (the armed citizens of America) are a very large group. If you think there was dissent during the Vietnam War....that would pale in comparision to trying to take the firearms away from a large number of stubborn citizens that take our second ammendment rights very seriously. I know personally...I will never give up my right to defend myself and be at the mercy of any government....sometimes the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed with the blood of Patroits. I do not think it will come to that.......but I have lived free all my life and I am not about to change at this stage of my life. My freedom and the freedom of the future generation of Americans is precious to me. Our national cemeteries are full of men that paid the price so that I am still free and I will not let their sacrifice be invein and I will not let them down. We must never give up our right to freedom and self defence....the german people tried that and see what happened to them...history will repeat itself if we do not learn the lesson and stand firm. If we stand with the NRA...we are a force to be recognized. It gives us the political clout we need backed up by the largest armed civilan force in the history of man. We are not in a weak position.........if we ever give up our rights...we become sheep and that is unacceptable to me.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Tell me about it. It's gotten to the point that i will only go to the range on days that I KNOW there will not be anybody there. The worse the weather is, the better. Too many unsafe idiots out there. That's another battle, trying to ensure that these idiots demonstrate a BASIC level of competency before they buy a gun. Now that this has happened, you have these idiots stocking up on guns and ammo and they are dangerous.

I'll second that. I've seen young people on the range with these guns who (1) didn't know how to sight in a gun, (2) had no idea how to clean it and (2) didn't have a cleaning kit in any event. On one occasion I was shooting and caught some movement out of my eye. One of them was walking downrange to change a target while I was shooting. I packed up and left. I don't know what the answer is but I do know there are more of them all the time.

 

[zip777]

Man am I glad our range is not like that. HIGH emphasis on safety. We have audible and visual warnings and all MUST communicate with everyone on the line and agree on flipping the switch to activate it before anyone steps even a foot down range. When the siren goes off mags are pulled. Firearms cleared of all rounds put on safety and placed on the bench hands off.

Guess I'm fortunate!

 

[StatesRightist]

A few differences.......the military takes an oath to defend the constitution ....and its their rights as well as ours. They would be taking the rights of their children, friends and relitives and their own rights as well. I can tell you, it will not happen. There are many good men that serve this country and they are not all sheep, many also think for themselves and are not going to follow orders that go against the grain of a hugh part of this country. There are not just a few of us citizens with firearms...there are millions of us. The politicions are not going to risk the backlash that would occur when the military refuses to go along with an order that goes against the constitution, the rights of their children, friends and relitives and could start the second civil war against an armed population that numbers in the many millions. It would be a nightmare for washington and they are not going down that road. The military is made up of our sons, daughters, friends and relitives and we (the armed citizens of America) are a very large group. If you think there was dissent during the Vietnam War....that would pale in comparision to trying to take the firearms away from a large number of stubborn citizens that take our second ammendment rights very seriously. I know personally...I will never give up my right to defend myself and be at the mercy of any government....sometimes the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed with the blood of Patroits. I do not think it will come to that.......but I have lived free all my life and I am not about to change at this stage of my life. My freedom and the freedom of the future generation of Americans is precious to me. Our national cemeteries are full of men that paid the price so that I am still free and I will not let their sacrifice be invein and I will not let them down. We must never give up our right to freedom and self defence....the german people tried that and see what happened to them...history will repeat itself if we do not learn the lesson and stand firm. If we stand with the NRA...we are a force to be recognized. It gives us the political clout we need backed up by the largest armed civilan force in the history of man. We are not in a weak position.........if we ever give up our rights...we become sheep and that is unacceptable to me.

Which is why the Government signed the The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, they can bring in Canadians to do their dirty work, along with the UN of course.

 

[Buffalohunter60]

Which is why the Government signed the The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, they can bring in Canadians to do their dirty work, along with the UN of course.

Ever notice that the UN is made up mostly of US soldiers. The Canadians are not about to come down here to "try" to take the weapons away from millions of citizens that are not about to roll over no more than US soldiers would go to Canada to do the same there...it wont happen, and it would also be unsucessful. We had over 500K men in vietnam trying to control the VC...and we were not very sucessful...they were a tiny force compared to the armed US citizens. No one can take our weapons from us.......if we do not give them up....the numbers are not there and the risk ourweighs the reward by alot. All we need to do is support the NRA and give them the ammo (cash) to fight the legal battle...and knowing we back them up with the resolve that we will not surrender our second ammendment rights to no force or government and taking them away from us is not going to happen. To put it simply...it would be like a mouse trying to disarm an elephant.

 

[KJM]

To those you you that think the military will turn on the American people....I served and I would refuse an order to take away the second ammendment rights. I have friends that serve and they would not turn on their own people, many of them hunt and love their freedom. They are the ones that pay for our freedom with their life and limbs. The military was used to prevent washington DC from being burned in the 60's and I had friends that were there in the military....different situtation. Protecting the country against civil destruction is one thing....taking away citizens rights is quite another...as they are also citizens that will lose their rights along with the rest of us. I will put my faith in my brothers that serve us so well and I have talked with many of them and also some police officers to get their take on all of this......its their rights also and history does repeat itself...it only takes one Hitler to destroy a government and it can happen here. I do trust the military, yes...some are sheep and will do what ever they are told....but many are not and will stand up for what is right when it comes to our constitutional rights, its their constitution also and their rights....and there are millions of "us" Even during the Mai lia massacure...many refused an order to murder civilans...while others did as ordered and an American officer (Thompson) landed his helicopter and put a stop to the murder of civilans. he had the courage and the guts to stop what was clearly murder. There are many good men serving and I will put my faith in them, they defend our freedom every day and I honor those that serve, they are n ot about to take away the rights of their brothers, sons, daughters, wives and relitives. There are many that serve that have the guts to put their life on the line for what they believe in and most believe in our freedom and constitutional rights. God Bless all of them.

Yeah, watch the video where they went all OO RAH on the old lady after HURRICANE KATRINA....
and all the others that were also disarmed. Someone had a video on here of that.... six minutes of abuses...... cops and Military.
The soldier that said something to the effect of he would hate to have to shoot an American... didnt say he wouldnt...
Oh... one of his Responses was "Marines follow orders"...


so, YOU may not........... don't claim to know what others would do. I just watched what happened. That spoke volumes.

If someone has that link, throw it up again. People all need to see that.

 

[KJM]

A few differences.......the military takes an oath to defend the constitution ....and its their rights as well as ours. They would be taking the rights of their children, friends and relitives and their own rights as well. I can tell you, it will not happen. There are many good men that serve this country and they are not all sheep, many also think for themselves and are not going to follow orders that go against the grain of a hugh part of this country. There are not just a few of us citizens with firearms...there are millions of us. The politicions are not going to risk the backlash that would occur when the military refuses to go along with an order that goes against the constitution, the rights of their children, friends and relitives and could start the second civil war against an armed population that numbers in the many millions. It would be a nightmare for washington and they are not going down that road. The military is made up of our sons, daughters, friends and relitives and we (the armed citizens of America) are a very large group. If you think there was dissent during the Vietnam War....that would pale in comparision to trying to take the firearms away from a large number of stubborn citizens that take our second ammendment rights very seriously. I know personally...I will never give up my right to defend myself and be at the mercy of any government....sometimes the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed with the blood of Patroits. I do not think it will come to that.......but I have lived free all my life and I am not about to change at this stage of my life. My freedom and the freedom of the future generation of Americans is precious to me. Our national cemeteries are full of men that paid the price so that I am still free and I will not let their sacrifice be invein and I will not let them down. We must never give up our right to freedom and self defence....the german people tried that and see what happened to them...history will repeat itself if we do not learn the lesson and stand firm. If we stand with the NRA...we are a force to be recognized. It gives us the political clout we need backed up by the largest armed civilan force in the history of man. We are not in a weak position.........if we ever give up our rights...we become sheep and that is unacceptable to me.

So much for Oaths huh?

Firearm confiscation Katrina - YouTube

 

[DrDyno]

Here's what's possible! (No clickey necessary.)

NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina - YouTube

 

[rwsmith]

I find this a problem, too.

Interesting that the uneducated view the .223/5.56 as a high powered ammo. The 30-06 is twice as powerful and some of the.50 cals have 10x the energy. Everyone should call their state and federal representatives and offer to help educate them. Offer to take them to a gun store or range and show them the difference. Help them to realize that they need to focus on illegal guns not the legal ones.

I think a lot of people are arguing about guns that don't really know anything about guns. And I say that most anti-gun nuts fall into that category.