What's happening with the S&W lifetime warranty?

[RonJon]

I just bought a brand-new 442-2 with no internal lock that was Mf'd on 11/03/2008. The Smith & Wesson Owner's Manual "Revolvers - Modern Style" that was included read like this on P. 32:

Notice the lack of the provision for the "Extended Service Policy" at he location designated by an "X" (in red) that appears in the other manuals I will show below (And, yes, I checked the rest of the manual thoroughly for the "Extended Service Policy" and it is NOT there):

(This manual was dated on the back cover as Sept. 11, 2008)

-*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-

This manual was just pulled off the S&W web site and is the most current revision of The Smith & Wesson Owner's Manual "Revolvers - Modern Style" . Notice the "Extended Service Policy" text where the "X" is located in the manual I got with my new 442:

(This manual was dated on the back cover as Jan. 13, 2009)

-*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-

This manual is from my 642-2 that I bought new in 2003 - It was Mf'd on Jun 16, 2003. Note that on P.29 there is a bold faced titled "Extended Service Policy":

(This manual was dated on the back cover as May 22, 2003)

-*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-

I have e-mailed Smith & Wesson customer service to get a clarification on exactly whether I get the "Extended Service Policy" or not on my new 442-2. And if so, I have requested that a new manual be sent to me to keep with my gun in case I ever need to use the "Extended Service Policy".

If NOT , then does it mean that S&W is no longer going to offer a "Lifetime Warranty"??

RonJon

 

[RonJon]

I just bought a brand-new 442-2 with no internal lock that was Mf'd on 11/03/2008. The Smith & Wesson Owner's Manual "Revolvers - Modern Style" that was included read like this on P. 32:

Notice the lack of the provision for the "Extended Service Policy" at he location designated by an "X" (in red) that appears in the other manuals I will show below (And, yes, I checked the rest of the manual thoroughly for the "Extended Service Policy" and it is NOT there):

(This manual was dated on the back cover as Sept. 11, 2008)

-*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-

This manual was just pulled off the S&W web site and is the most current revision of The Smith & Wesson Owner's Manual "Revolvers - Modern Style" . Notice the "Extended Service Policy" text where the "X" is located in the manual I got with my new 442:

(This manual was dated on the back cover as Jan. 13, 2009)

-*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-

This manual is from my 642-2 that I bought new in 2003 - It was Mf'd on Jun 16, 2003. Note that on P.29 there is a bold faced titled "Extended Service Policy":

(This manual was dated on the back cover as May 22, 2003)

-*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-

I have e-mailed Smith & Wesson customer service to get a clarification on exactly whether I get the "Extended Service Policy" or not on my new 442-2. And if so, I have requested that a new manual be sent to me to keep with my gun in case I ever need to use the "Extended Service Policy".

If NOT , then does it mean that S&W is no longer going to offer a "Lifetime Warranty"??

RonJon

 

[SmithNut]

I'm not sure I read this the same way as you. The "lifetime" warranty went into effect in 1989, which is borne out by the above docs. Where does it say that your new gun isn't covered? I didn't see any exclusion, except for guns used "outside" the exceptable use as defined above.
Did I miss something?

 

[RonJon]

Originally posted by SmithNut:
I'm not sure I read this the same way as you. The "lifetime" warranty went into effect in 1989, which is borne out by the above docs. Where does it say that your new gun isn't covered? I didn't see any exclusion, except for guns used "outside" the exceptable use as defined above.
Did I miss something?

Yes - The first document scan in my post is the one that came with my new gun. It does NOT mention The "lifetime" warranty that went into effect in 1989 (anywhere). It only mentions a one year warranty on P.31 (not shown here).

The other two scans DO show it, but they came with another S&W that I bought in 2003; and in the current revision given as a .PDF Owner's Manual on the S&W web site.

Ron

 

[SmithNut]

RonJon,
I see what you are referring to (now) my bad. I've not heard about any change, have you called the factory to confirm? Wonder if this is just a manual printing issue?

 

[RonJon]

SN,

Here is a link to the latest revision at the S&W web site (in .PDF format). You can read about the 'One Year' part, followed by the 'Extended' part.

I just hope that their answer is that this version supercedes the one I got with my new gun.

RonJon

Latest Version from S&W web site

 

[sheriff51]

I've nothing but good to say on the warrenty service. I recently sent in a SIGMA with a problem that to make a long story short, I was not sure was covered. I sent a letter detailing the problem and what had happened prior to. They fixed the gun free, paid the shipping, and returned it in record time. Good people, good company

 

[Kenneth L. Walters]

You noticed, I suppose, that Smith's are only covered if you ONLY use factory ammunition. That's been true for years.

I remember calling them once about a warranty problem. They said that they would look my gun over and then decide if they were going to fix it. That it was their call regardless. They did fix that gun but I've never placed much faith in their warranty service ever since.

I've got a 617 back their now. No idea what they'll do.

 

[cassml1]

The dealer where I buy my guns from gives a lifetime warranty on all new firearms purchased from him. They stamp it on the invoice.

 

[RightWinger]

I guess I'm not seeing the same thing you guys are, in the warranty paper work on the first one he scanned in it is worded different, but it clearly says after the extended service plan they will continue to fix your firearm....and that one is dated in 2009.....

 

[RonJon]

Originally posted by RightWinger:
I guess I'm not seeing the same thing you guys are, in the warranty paper work on the first one he scanned in it is worded different, but it clearly says after the extended service plan they will continue to fix your firearm....and that one is dated in 2009.....

The first one I scanned in is dated Sept. 11, 2008. That is the one that came with my new 442-2 that I just bought a week ago. It has no mention of the extended service plan.

The ones that do mention it are the one on the web site now (the second scan), and the 2003 version that I got with a 642 that I bought new in 2003 (the third scan).

Is that clearer?

RonJon

 

[Shuz]

My experience has been all good. I've sent guns back that I bought second hand as well as new, and they fixed them in record time and at no cost to me. Maybe their records indicate that I'm a "good customer"?

 

[DonD]

I know a S&W engineer. He worked the Model 500 and was a lead on their 1911s. He says S&W's warranty is lifetime.

The line highlighted by the OP sounds like legal CYA to let them off the hook if someone stuffs a case full of Bullseye into a round and grenades the gun. No different than a car manufacturer reserving the right to refuse claims on a car that was run with nitrous.

S&W and Ruger have fine warranty service. Don

 

[epj]

I bought a new 686+ within the last year. I seem to recall something about a "1 year warranty" also. I'll have to look up the owners manual to verify.

 

[5Wire]

At the risk of having my post deleted again on this subject, Smith & Wesson's One Year Warranty is NOT the same as its Extended Service Policy. The Warranty is a legal statement, the policy is a policy; it could change but it hasn't.

Links abound to both in this thread and the OP's scans are sufficient to make the distinction.

Confusion arises from the Extended Service Policy text not appearing in the particular manual revision that came with the OP's firearm. The fact it was missing does not necessarily mean it was 'deleted'. Posting as a 35- year-plus publishing professional, I can think of several explanations for the text having been 'omitted': faulty or missing copy preparation, faulty or missing proofing procedures, image preparation or assembly errors, in any combination.

I have no idea how many revisions of the manual exist but I do know the number of pages has changed, that can cause problems in allocating space, number of press runs to complete the booklet, or folding machine capabilities any of which can cause panic in copy fitting.

The current policy is clearly stated on S&W's website; it is no different than it has been since its inception about 20 years ago.

REV071001 32 pp Service Policy present
REV091108 ?? pp Service Policy Missing
REV052203 32 pp Service Policy present
REV013009 36 pp Service Policy present

 

[Careby]

I find it interesting that Ruger has no written warranty, and advertises that fact very clearly, yet every time I have ever returned a Ruger with a problem they have repaired it and sent it back to me, no charge. Different lawyers, I guess.

 

[5Wire]

Originally posted by Careby:
I find it interesting that Ruger has no written warranty, and advertises that fact very clearly, yet every time I have ever returned a Ruger with a problem they have repaired it and sent it back to me, no charge. Different lawyers, I guess.

I believe Ruger and S&W have the same policy.

Here's why Ruger has a policy instead of a warranty:

WHY NO WARRANTY CARD HAS BEEN
PACKED WITH THIS NEW RUGER FIREARM
The Magnuson-Moss Act (Public Law 93-637) does not require any
seller or manufacturer of a consumer product to give a written warranty.
It does provide that if a written warranty is given, it must be
designated as "limited" or as "full" and sets minimum standards for a
"full" warranty. Sturm, Ruger & Company, Inc. has elected not to provide
any written warranty, either "limited" or "full", rather than to
attempt to comply with the provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Act and
the regulations issued thereunder. There are certain implied warranties
under state law with respect to sales of consumer goods. As
the extent and interpretation of these implied warranties varies from
state to state, you should refer to your state statutes. Sturm, Ruger &
Company wishes to assure its customers of its continued interest in
providing service to owners of Ruger firearms.

I imagine the reasoning is the same for S&W.

 

[RonJon]

Originally posted by 5Wire:

REV071001 32 pp Service Policy present
REV091108 36 pp Service Policy Missing
REV052203 32 pp Service Policy present
REV013009 36 pp Service Policy present

You can add these to the list -
I looked through my revolver cases and found these manuals:

S&W Model 638-3 Mfg: 2/2008, Bought new on 8/3/2008:
REV091207 36 pp Service Policy Missing

My 617-4:
REV 9/98 28 pp Service Policy present

My Model 500 Mfg: 1/17/2005, Bought new on 2/10/2005:
REV101904 36 pp Service Policy present

My Model 629-6 Mtn Gun Mfg: 10/27/2002:
REV091002 32 pp Service Policy present

My S&W Model 686-6 Mfg: 5/17/2005,Bought new on 6/15/2005:
REV030905 36 pp Service Policy present

I also have a "Revolvers - Modern Style manual:
REV092203 32 pp Service Policy present

RonJon

 

[5Wire]

Originally posted by RonJon:...
You can add these to the list -
I looked through my revolver cases and found these manuals:

S&W Model 638-3 Mfg: 2/2008, Bought new on 8/3/2008:
REV091207 36 pp Service Policy Missing

My 617-4:
REV 9/98 28 pp Service Policy present

My Model 500 Mfg: 1/17/2005, Bought new on 2/10/2005:
REV101904 36 pp Service Policy present

My Model 629-6 Mtn Gun Mfg: 10/27/2002:
REV091002 32 pp Service Policy present

My S&W Model 686-6 Mfg: 5/17/2005,Bought new on 6/15/2005:
REV030905 36 pp Service Policy present

I also have a "Revolvers - Modern Style manual:
REV092203 32 pp Service Policy present

RonJon

LOL, I think they need some help in there Corporate Publishing Department, if they actually have one!

Yo! S&W, I can be had and I can help you out.

 

[big50_1]

Smith's warranty is still intact as far as I'm concerned. Bought a used 65-3 in pristine condition last year. Cylinder rotation was very, very stiff so I sent it back to the factory. Got a call that the frame was cracked and they offered me choice of several guns as replacement OR I could take the cracked-frame gun back and that would be the end of the issue. I chose a 642-2 as replacement and it was **free**. So I'm stoked about S&W.

 

[Cary]

Originally posted by big50_1:
Smith's warranty is still intact as far as I'm concerned. Bought a used 65-3 in pristine condition last year. Cylinder rotation was very, very stiff so I sent it back to the factory. Got a call that the frame was cracked and they offered me choice of several guns as replacement OR I could take the cracked-frame gun back and that would be the end of the issue. I chose a 642-2 as replacement and it was **free**. So I'm stoked about S&W.

I received a new M620 the same way about 2-3 years ago. I know the M620 has gotten a lot of flack because of the MIM parts, two piece barrel, and the internal lock but hey the price was right and it shoots great for me.
Cary

 

[duckloads]

I just got a shipping label to send my XVR back to S&W.

 

[5Wire]

I've only had to request service once, a 686-5 Mountain Gun with a push-off problem. I did it by email. The next day I got an Email reply with a FedEx shipping code and instructions. Shipped it. Got it back about three weeks letter perfectly repaired and improved, it seemed to me in pull, at no charge. I am not the original owner but I sure am a fan of S&W Customer Service. I know from this forum that mine is far from being a unique experience with a consequent feeling of loyalty.

 

[FullMonte]

The 386NG I bought new two months ago is at S&W for repair now. Terrible misfire problems. When i called, they didnt ask any info aside from my address and name, and my next day air UPS slip came in the mail.

You guys are scaring me. I hope its free!

 

[DonD]

Originally posted by FullMonte:
The 386NG I bought new two months ago is at S&W for repair now. Terrible misfire problems. When i called, they didnt ask any info aside from my address and name, and my next day air UPS slip came in the mail.

You guys are scaring me. I hope its free!

Relax, it will not cost you a cent. They'll ship it back to you UPS at their expense and I'd bet you'll be very happy with the result and I hope you are. Don

 

[jeffrey]

I just sent S&W my 629-4 MG because the hammernose snapped off. The gentleman on the phone didn't even ask me whether I was the original owner (I am not). All he wanted was the address to which he would send the UPS shipping label.

I have availed myself of S&W's warranty service maybe four other times over the years, sometimes with guns I purchased new and sometimes with used guns, and their service has always been first rate -- and totally free. S&W is the best big company that I have ever dealt with. And it has the best warranty service.

 

[KyJim]

Since Smith and Wesson gives a limited warranty for a year, they would still have to comply with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Ruger, which does not give a warranty, does not have to comply with the Act. One of the key provisions of the Act is that it requires companies to provide an informal dispute resolution system through an independent third party at no cost to the consumer.

Anyway, I think the reason for the one year cut-off is simply to give SW the right to refuse to service guns when parts become unavailable, etc.

 

[5Wire]

Originally posted by KyJim:
...Anyway, I think the reason for the one year cut-off is simply to give SW the right to refuse to service guns when parts become unavailable, etc.

If that were the case, the wording to the Extended Service Policy would not make any sense at all:

Smith & Wesson?s Extended Service Policy begins after the warranty period has expired. Smith & Wesson will repair, without charge, any handgun purchased by the original owner on or after February 1, 1989 that is found to have a defect in material or workmanship. Eligibility for this extended service policy requires returning the Product Registration Card within 30 days of purchase. The Extended Service Policy covers functional defects; it does not include the handgun?s finish, grips, magazines or sights. The Extended Service Policy is in addition to and not an extension of the Smith & Wesson Warranty.

Nothing about parts. Guns manufactured before 1989 don't meet the threshold date, so, in that sense, S&W could refuse to repair unless charges were levied for parts, labor, and shipment. That seems eminently reasonable and generous to cover, as of this date, 20 years of manufacturing beyond the year of initial purchase instead of just that one year. Additionally, the Uniform Commercial Code, if I remember correctly, stipulates that durable manufactured goods parts be available for ten years after the last date of manufacture. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I've been away from purchasing functions for a while.