Powder Burns
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+1.
I also like 125gr more than 158gr in .357.
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Which is more powerful? .45 or .357
- Thread starter kbm6893
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I also like 125gr more than 158gr in .357.
SicSemper
Member
When the .357 came out there slogon was "The .357 takes the proof out of bullet proof."
Re: OP. More powerful. It's a wash. Optimum loads in either caliber produce energy levels approximately similar to the point that any difference is irrelevant. If the issue is on target effectiveness, it depends. Some out of emotion will laud whatever they have used, seen used, etc. Experience is by many valued beyond theory advanced from any source.
Some will appeal to FBI research, which to some degree may be of worth. Some will prefer testing that is closer to that done by Thompson-LaGarde substituting goats for live cattle and human cadavers. Personally I don't know of anyone existent who has shot and killed enough men to know what they are talking about. But, there is a pool of men who have done so. That is the pool of policemen across our nation.
The very highest one shot stops are recorded for the .357 Magnum. According to Handgun Stopping Power by Marshall and Sanow, Fed. and Rem. produce 125 gr. JHP loads that penetrate 13-13.5 inches in 10% ballistic gelletin and produce 96% one shot stops. There are similar effective .45 ACP loads with penetration of up to 13.3 inches and 94% one stop shots. The difference is likely not meaningful.
Personally I've only shot game animals. I've killed and seen killed deer, hogs and various small game. I've watched heavy caliber rifles fail with good hits. I've seen deer drop like they were struck with the hammer of thor even though the round used was only a .30-30 or a .243 Winchester. I've killed a lot of deer using a plain .30-06. Not one has ever stood back up after I shot it. They all died on the spot. Does that mean the .30-06 is infallible. Of course not. It is simply my experience.
So... back to the OP... which is more powerful? Depending on how you want to weigh the evidence, factors, etc. involved, it will be the .357 Magnum... or the .45 ACP. It all depends. From my perspective, I prefer the .357 Magnum. I've seen what it can do. For that reason a 4" 66-2 occupies our bedside table loaded with 125 gr. Rem. JHP's. At across the room or down the hall distances it will doubtless live up to its 96% reputation. On the shelf underneath that nightstand is a RIA 1911 loaded with Winchester 230 gr. FMJ's. I haven't gotten around to buying a JHP load for that pistol. When I do, it will be loaded with them. And it will be on that shelf. If in a time of need it is the first thing that comes to hand, in comparison to the .357 Magnum, it will almost certainly be equally effective. Which ever comes to hand first will not be of much concern.
Some will appeal to FBI research, which to some degree may be of worth. Some will prefer testing that is closer to that done by Thompson-LaGarde substituting goats for live cattle and human cadavers. Personally I don't know of anyone existent who has shot and killed enough men to know what they are talking about. But, there is a pool of men who have done so. That is the pool of policemen across our nation.
The very highest one shot stops are recorded for the .357 Magnum. According to Handgun Stopping Power by Marshall and Sanow, Fed. and Rem. produce 125 gr. JHP loads that penetrate 13-13.5 inches in 10% ballistic gelletin and produce 96% one shot stops. There are similar effective .45 ACP loads with penetration of up to 13.3 inches and 94% one stop shots. The difference is likely not meaningful.
Personally I've only shot game animals. I've killed and seen killed deer, hogs and various small game. I've watched heavy caliber rifles fail with good hits. I've seen deer drop like they were struck with the hammer of thor even though the round used was only a .30-30 or a .243 Winchester. I've killed a lot of deer using a plain .30-06. Not one has ever stood back up after I shot it. They all died on the spot. Does that mean the .30-06 is infallible. Of course not. It is simply my experience.
So... back to the OP... which is more powerful? Depending on how you want to weigh the evidence, factors, etc. involved, it will be the .357 Magnum... or the .45 ACP. It all depends. From my perspective, I prefer the .357 Magnum. I've seen what it can do. For that reason a 4" 66-2 occupies our bedside table loaded with 125 gr. Rem. JHP's. At across the room or down the hall distances it will doubtless live up to its 96% reputation. On the shelf underneath that nightstand is a RIA 1911 loaded with Winchester 230 gr. FMJ's. I haven't gotten around to buying a JHP load for that pistol. When I do, it will be loaded with them. And it will be on that shelf. If in a time of need it is the first thing that comes to hand, in comparison to the .357 Magnum, it will almost certainly be equally effective. Which ever comes to hand first will not be of much concern.
Yep, we had a sweet gum tree out back and I'd use the "cuckle berries" that fell to the ground (different from dingle berries) and use them in slingshots. Hurt like hell!
m1gunner
US Veteran
My leanings are to the big chunk of lead moving at modest velocity. Muzzle energy figures make interesting conversation, as do geletin test data, but experience "shooting stuff" with both types of bullets speaks volumes.
The 36 caliber hi-tech hollow point, segmetated screamer may just fail to expand. The 230 gr 45 caliber round will always be at least .45 inches across.
The term "magnum" only refers to chamber pressure, it isn't some magical bullet property. Getting the job done with half the chamber pressure has advantages.
The 45 is known for excellent penetration (some call it excessive), but sometimes you have to shoot through something to hit your target.
A through and through will generate twice the number of "leaks" than will an entrance wound only.
The 36 caliber hi-tech hollow point, segmetated screamer may just fail to expand. The 230 gr 45 caliber round will always be at least .45 inches across.
The term "magnum" only refers to chamber pressure, it isn't some magical bullet property. Getting the job done with half the chamber pressure has advantages.
The 45 is known for excellent penetration (some call it excessive), but sometimes you have to shoot through something to hit your target.
A through and through will generate twice the number of "leaks" than will an entrance wound only.
Stu Honea
Member
Without possession of indisputable factual information,capable of being presented as an evidentiary article,which would lend credence to,or support a certain degree of accuracy,free of speculative assumption,in determining and providing a logically presumable correct answer to your question,I would decline to express a definite opinion.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Dead is Dead no matter how you get there!
Either one works fine. Shot placement is the key.
John
44wheelman
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E= 1/2 mv^2 but, the .45 has a 60% more area to deliver that energy.
So if I were shooting a skinny man, I want a 45. if I were shooting a morbidly obese man, I think I need a 357
So if I were shooting a skinny man, I want a 45. if I were shooting a morbidly obese man, I think I need a 357
OK Hog Shooter
Member
I hesitate to articulate for fear that l may deviate from the true course of rectitude... in plain English... heck if l know!
now if you want my opinion...Hog
smithman 10
US Veteran
M1gunner said, "A through and through will generate twice the number of "leaks" than will an entrance wound only."
Never thought of it that way! Bleeding out from both sides!
Never thought of it that way! Bleeding out from both sides!
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I hesitate to articulate for fear that l may deviate from the true course of rectitude... in plain English... heck if l know!
Hog
"I hesitate to articulate for fear that I may deviate from the true and given course of rectitude. In short, I am very stupid and do not know, SIR."
Boy, that brings back memories from my days as an ROTC cadet, pledging Pershing Rifles.
John
Powder Burns
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I'll take either .357 or 45 ACP when the chips were down...uinless I had a shotgun.
Stu Honea
Member
Wow if I took that stance I wouldn't even need an Internet connection!
That used to be my well rehearsed answer to smart aleck lawyers who tried to elicit opinions and trip me up on the stand. A couple of them stood there with mouths gaping open,and one superior court judge actually laughed outloud.I enjoyed it myself.I was a smart aleck,too.
hammeredbean
Member
In my opinion both are excellent. I don't know what type of areas you are able to shoot/practice etc.... but here is something a bit off topic that one might consider also. If you only practice at a range....no worries, but if you are a person (redneck like me) who dwells in rural areas and might have permission/opportunites to stop off at the neighbors pastures, gravel pits, creek banks, etc... to shoot a few rounds......the 45 at sub-sonic speeds is MUCH quieter. My family knows EXACTLY which gun I am shooting in the pasture when I have my 3" 357. They don't mind, and no harm is done, but my point is when/if targets or practice shots of opportunity arise, and you might not have time for earmuffs/plugs or you might be within a reasonable distance from neighbors...so the noise might be something to factor. I find myself not shooting at things while out in the woods with my 357 that I'd probably shoot at with a 45acp. Everyone would still here the shot with either, but it is like..."oh, someone is target shooting over yonder" compared to "holy **** that person must be close!".
Having said all of that, I don't have a 45 anymore and I carry a 3" Ruger SP101 that I love. I can shoot 38's when I want to be quieter,,,,,but I never do. I just make lots of noise and keep earplugs in my pocket
Having said all of that, I don't have a 45 anymore and I carry a 3" Ruger SP101 that I love. I can shoot 38's when I want to be quieter,,,,,but I never do. I just make lots of noise and keep earplugs in my pocket
Cocked & Locked
Member
Its a Toss Up
The ability to accurately launch eight chunks of lead from either one comforts me. I feel good to go with either.
The ability to accurately launch eight chunks of lead from either one comforts me. I feel good to go with either.
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