On and off duty...
Which S&W do you trust your life with: a home and on the street?
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An official red ryder carbine action 200 shot range model air rifle.
My backup gun is a 586.
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My backup gun is a 586.
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gordon21
Member
Smoke, Mc5aw, Pmosley: I gather that none of you approve of what I did. I am not trying to start an argument, but I sincerely ask what YOU would have done in these situations. Please tell me your reaction to each incident.
2AM: Dark yard in a very rural area. Lit enough to see my neighbors dog being attacked and about 4-5 wild dogs running frantically around the old blind dog being attacked. I might have hit one, I don't know. All I know is that I stopped the attack. I really want you guys to chime in and say what YOU would have done. Let the dog get killed on the spot or???? After the first shot, they all scattered fast.
As far as the daytime incident, I assume all of you would have preferred that I immediately kill the other dog belonging to a neighbor down the road. Am I right or am I misreading your responses? I have never heard of a "Joey B", but will go Google it later. In this case, I clearly had a choice to make. Kill or scare. I chose scare. My wife or grandkids were not in the yard. It was me and dog only. So the standard response should be "kill the neighbors dog immediately"??
And for those of you that answer "kill the dog immediately", then what would you do afterwards with a dead dog in your own yard? Do you leave it there on the front lawn, go quietly dispose of the body or take it down the road to the neighbor that owns it and hand him a corpse??
2AM: Dark yard in a very rural area. Lit enough to see my neighbors dog being attacked and about 4-5 wild dogs running frantically around the old blind dog being attacked. I might have hit one, I don't know. All I know is that I stopped the attack. I really want you guys to chime in and say what YOU would have done. Let the dog get killed on the spot or???? After the first shot, they all scattered fast.
As far as the daytime incident, I assume all of you would have preferred that I immediately kill the other dog belonging to a neighbor down the road. Am I right or am I misreading your responses? I have never heard of a "Joey B", but will go Google it later. In this case, I clearly had a choice to make. Kill or scare. I chose scare. My wife or grandkids were not in the yard. It was me and dog only. So the standard response should be "kill the neighbors dog immediately"??
And for those of you that answer "kill the dog immediately", then what would you do afterwards with a dead dog in your own yard? Do you leave it there on the front lawn, go quietly dispose of the body or take it down the road to the neighbor that owns it and hand him a corpse??
G.T. Smith
US Veteran
Model 65-4 4" is the best hitting gun I have. Probably my 65 4".
peace,
gordon
peace,
gordon
gordon21
Member
Smoke, Mc5aw, Pmosley: I gather none of you approve of my actions. I am not trying to start an argument, but I really do want to know what you would have done in each incident.
2AM: Dimly lit yard in a very rural area. Neighbors old, blind dog is being attacked by 5-6 wild dogs. I fired intending to hit one. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. They all scattered. Would you have let the dog get killed on the spot??
Daytime incident: I was at my mailbox about 150' from my front door. Rottweiler comes running towards me aggressively. I start heading for the house. By the time I get half way home, the dog is within 10', growling, teeth bared and hair raised. I yell, wave my arms and the dog still keeps closing the distance. The dog is normally chained 24/7 outside 365 days a year with no shelter at the neighbors house. I had a choice to make. Kill or scare. I intentionally chose to scare to use that option first. I never heard the phrase "Joey B", but will Google it later. I can only assume you guys would have killed the dog immediately. Neither my wife nor grandkids were in the yard at the time. It was only me and the dog.
If yes, please tell me what you would have done with a dead dog. Leave in in your front yard for the neighbor to eventually discover, dispose of the body discreetly or take the dead body to the neighbors house and say here is your dead dog?
If you wouldn't have shot at all, what would your plan be with an overly aggressive dog? Just get mauled??
Smoke: You must be an EMT in great shape and can run fast since you say you wouldn't have introduced a gun. I'm 58 years old and I know I couldn't out run a 100# vicious dog those last 75'. No one else was home so if I had been attacked, no one would have known
2AM: Dimly lit yard in a very rural area. Neighbors old, blind dog is being attacked by 5-6 wild dogs. I fired intending to hit one. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. They all scattered. Would you have let the dog get killed on the spot??
Daytime incident: I was at my mailbox about 150' from my front door. Rottweiler comes running towards me aggressively. I start heading for the house. By the time I get half way home, the dog is within 10', growling, teeth bared and hair raised. I yell, wave my arms and the dog still keeps closing the distance. The dog is normally chained 24/7 outside 365 days a year with no shelter at the neighbors house. I had a choice to make. Kill or scare. I intentionally chose to scare to use that option first. I never heard the phrase "Joey B", but will Google it later. I can only assume you guys would have killed the dog immediately. Neither my wife nor grandkids were in the yard at the time. It was only me and the dog.
If yes, please tell me what you would have done with a dead dog. Leave in in your front yard for the neighbor to eventually discover, dispose of the body discreetly or take the dead body to the neighbors house and say here is your dead dog?
If you wouldn't have shot at all, what would your plan be with an overly aggressive dog? Just get mauled??
Smoke: You must be an EMT in great shape and can run fast since you say you wouldn't have introduced a gun. I'm 58 years old and I know I couldn't out run a 100# vicious dog those last 75'. No one else was home so if I had been attacked, no one would have known
Linejudgemick
Member
I have a 20 ga. Mossberg 500... and I've had a 12 ga. Remington 870 Wingmaster for many years. I bought the Mossberg a year ago because it weighs less to carry while chasing rooster pheasants. IMO the Mossberg doesn't kick one bit less than the 12 ga., probably because it weighs less. If recoil is an issue for you - I recommend you get an auto-loader and/or shoot reduced recoil ammo, which BTW is easier to find in 12 ga.
Gordon, I think that the statement that you are now confident against people after having confronted dogs doesn't make sense to most people. I've confronted both, and they are quite different.
As for the OP's question, I am still required to carry the duty issue Glock for work. However, a 3" 657 rides night stand duty on occasion. When I hunt, the Glock is in the safe and a 657 or 629 plays ride-a-long. I trust them all. My first LE rig was a 27-3 and it is still a favorite.
As for the OP's question, I am still required to carry the duty issue Glock for work. However, a 3" 657 rides night stand duty on occasion. When I hunt, the Glock is in the safe and a 657 or 629 plays ride-a-long. I trust them all. My first LE rig was a 27-3 and it is still a favorite.
GORDON21
You NEVER shoot to scare or wound EVER. That goes for animals as well as people.
In case #1 the wild dogs, shooting to kill is a no brainer, wild dogs are dangerous especially in a pack and they could have easily changed "victims" and gone after you.
In case #2 It is fairly obvious to me that the dog wasn't coming to wish you a good day, if you shoot to kill and MISS that's one thing, but to use a firearm as a noise-maker is dangerous to everyone in the area, what happens if there is a ricochet? If you had killed the dog your next course of action should have been to the police to report the incident.
gordon21
Member
DR505: My son in law is a LEO in the states now and has done civilian police training in Afghanistan. He has told me horror stories about USA LEO's and foreign recruits who have faced situations and they hesitate or freeze. They train and train, but when it becomes a real situation, they hesitate. And as you know, that is not good.
I think the point I was trying to make but got misconstrued was that I had learned I was able to unholster a gun, aim and fire it in a situation that lasted only seconds and could have turned out very badly for my own safety (incident 2). I certainly wasn't trying to brag, but had come to the self realization that I was not one of those people who carry a gun and would never know if I could draw and fire as needed.
There was no planning like a SWAT team does. I was innocently getting my mail at a rural area mailbox right after getting home from work and literally seconds later I was afraid for my safety.
I do not have the luxury of extensive LEO or military training. I am a plain old civilian who reacted as needed and gained confidence in the process. The whole incident took less time than I spent writing the last couple sentences.
I have always asked for advice my whole life and have no issues with admitting I have done something wrong. I try to learn from my mistakes and experiences. I will be curious about what the responses will be from the people who frowned on not killing the dog.
I think the point I was trying to make but got misconstrued was that I had learned I was able to unholster a gun, aim and fire it in a situation that lasted only seconds and could have turned out very badly for my own safety (incident 2). I certainly wasn't trying to brag, but had come to the self realization that I was not one of those people who carry a gun and would never know if I could draw and fire as needed.
There was no planning like a SWAT team does. I was innocently getting my mail at a rural area mailbox right after getting home from work and literally seconds later I was afraid for my safety.
I do not have the luxury of extensive LEO or military training. I am a plain old civilian who reacted as needed and gained confidence in the process. The whole incident took less time than I spent writing the last couple sentences.
I have always asked for advice my whole life and have no issues with admitting I have done something wrong. I try to learn from my mistakes and experiences. I will be curious about what the responses will be from the people who frowned on not killing the dog.
gordon21
Member
Don73: You are completely right about not scaring or intentionally merely wounding a HUMAN. That was drilled into us during the concealed carry class. The instructor (local police chief) made it very clear. If you feel threatened enough to pull your weapon, you should be planning to kill. No ifs, ands or buts.
As far as animals were concerned, I never really considered that that should apply too. I assumed other options were available and prudent. From the comments so far, I guess I need to change my mindset.
As far as animals were concerned, I never really considered that that should apply too. I assumed other options were available and prudent. From the comments so far, I guess I need to change my mindset.
Kentucky Dave
Member
In 42 years of shooting them, I've never had a S&W Model 19 fail to shoot when it was loaded and I pulled the trigger.
My experience with my Glock Model 19 I've had for about 25 or 30 years is similar.
So I guess I'll say, "Give me a Model 19!"
I've felt very comfortable carrying either over the years.
My experience with my Glock Model 19 I've had for about 25 or 30 years is similar.
So I guess I'll say, "Give me a Model 19!"
I've felt very comfortable carrying either over the years.
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cmort666
Member
I mentioned the dog because no matter what the 'hostile' is coming at you: dog, human or rabid chipmunk, using deadly force is using deadly force.
Other options are pepper spray, a big stick or a good kick in the chops.
Arik
Member
I find that a revolver is actually harder to use for "any skill level". Between the small black sights and the trigger pull ifs harder to hit accurately. I have proven that twice by letting my father and sister shoot my revolvers. Having never shot one neither of them could consistently hit the target at any range except point blank. Even at 10 ft away the shots were all over the place with the first few being close but complete misses. When switching over to semi autos they were not able to get any kind of groupings but we're able to consistently hit the chest and stomach area with only an occasional flyer.
Semi autos can sit loaded indefinitely as well, have better sights and triggers.
My carry guns have to have night sights. A revolver in the dark is not a good idea. And be reliable. I carry Glocks and HKs.
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Waywatcher
Member
This one...
...for both.
...for both.
vito
US Veteran
For home I have a Model 19 with Crimson Trace laser, loaded with 38+p Hornady. For carry, mostly a 642 loaded with the same +p. On occasion, I carry a Ruger LCP with Hornady Critical Defense 380acp.
Amp
Member
I have several and trust them all but my 640 has made more road trips than any of them by a large margin. Don't even carry extra rounds for it anymore. 
Kadonny
Member
Not really, the 20 gauge will throw less lead since it is smaller, so it can't do as much as the 12. Whether it be buck or slugs, it is not as effective IMO. I get the fit issue though, that's totally understandable.
This. If you have shot both, you soon realize the 20 gauge kicks nearly as much as the 12 and it's really more about the weight of the gun. Bottom line, if you want a shotgun for HD, you want it to throw as much lead and the largest lead possible.
For me, on the street it's either my Shield 9mm or my 642. As much as I love my Shield, someway somehow I still trust my 642 more. For HD my 4566TSW will do exactly what I will ask of it.
I know I'm echoing the others here but if you didn't intend to kill then why fire a shot at all?
Protected One
Member
Didn't he answer that question?
Once the threat was gone, first instance then stop shooting.
Yes, kill the dog immediately in the second. There is no "scare" when you pull a weapon to defend yourself. You were lucky, a lot of dogs will continue to attack even if fired upon and hit much less fired nearby.
As to what to do with it, 2 choices. Since I knew the dog and owner I'd probably call the sherif and tell him I had shot a threatening dog and then take the body over to the neighbors yard and dump it there and let the sherif deputy tell them why it was killed. Probably also ask them to replace the ammo I used. Not that I'd actually get it but the sheriff would back me up on getting ammo replaced, after all ammo is worth more than the dog at this point.
Option 2, if I didn't know the owner then I'd take the backhoe out back and bury it.
In the CCW class I took on the written test one of the scenarios included a dog coming at you along with other threats. The correct response was shoot the dog first and then shoot the others who were further away. If I draw my weapon to defend myself and make the decision to shoot you can bet I'll be doing my best to stop said attack and that means shoot center of mass no matter the threat. If that kills the attacker so be it. I did not choose to be attacked I only responded to the threat.
Yep he did. I missed it, sorry.
Protected One
Member
Some people apply that same thinking to 2 legged attackers. In both cases I think it's flawed logic.
Protected One
Member
At home, my M&P FS 9mm which has been flawless from day one.
In my car, my Sig P238 which I have come to love too. Much more accurate than I am with practically no recoil. NO malfunctions from day one.
I don't carry, but if I did would be a Shield in 9mm.
In my car, my Sig P238 which I have come to love too. Much more accurate than I am with practically no recoil. NO malfunctions from day one.
I don't carry, but if I did would be a Shield in 9mm.
I have a couple of questions about this scenario the primary one being what is a half blind geriatric dog doing being left outside to fend for himself in the middle of the night?
As for the response I certainly would have been trying to kill the wild dogs.
Can't speak for where you are but in Colorado "warning" shots are considered deadly force and you have to account for them. If the situation wasn't bad enough to justify shooting the dog it wasn't bad enough to justify bringing a gun into it at all.
Was the dog a serious threat or not? Did you really think he was going to take a chunk out of you or not? If that's really what you think you either shoot him or kick him square in the ribs or you could carry some OC spray when you're out with the dogs that would solve the problem and give the dog some much needed corrective training that he will never forget.
I don't see that anyone frowned on not killling the dog. What was frowned on was the unjustified "warning" shot.
