Who else is caught in the pistol arm brace fiasco?

[CH4]

and since they can't possibly complete all the background checks in 88 days, they automatically will fail you since they don't have an answer yet. HOWEVER, you just sent them your name/address, finger prints, and photographic evidence that you have an unregistered SBR. Instant felony.

It's A TRAP!

do some serious research before you decide. A GOA lawyer talked to ATF agents at ShotShow and was told this would automatically trigger law enforcement action by the ATF.

It might not be the bureaucrat's intent, but the enforcement side would have to respond as required.

It's the submission date, not the completion of the BG.

 

[Cartwright Jones]

Well, I really didn't think that the ATF would have the cojones to change their minds for the fourth time and ban the use of pistol arm braces...they're legal, they're not legal, they're legal, they're not legal. Anyway, now I've got to either remove the arm brace from my SIG MPX or register it with the ATF within 120 days or basically I become a felon. I like a stock on the MPX, so I've decided that I will register it, and I have gone online and set up an account with ATF eforms. At least the AG won't make me pay the $200 tax fee! Besides, once my MPX is registered as a SBR, I can legally put on a real collapsible/folding rifle stock. I know, I'm breaking the NRA's and 2A rules to fight back, but I don't care if ATF knows that I have this one firearm. With my ATF eforms account, I can also quickly register a suppressor (or suppressors) in the future. LOL, please no hate letters! Thoughts?

Don't be too quick to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire on this. The legal challenges are just starting to line up which will include injunctive relief against doing ANYTHING while the case works its way through the system.

 

[Sistema1927]

Has it hit the Federal Register yet? Maybe the "final rule" isn't as "final" as they thought.

 

[robandrew]

Here is some historical info on SBR's from Ian of Forgotten Weapons. He knows his stuff on vintage and antique weapon history. Interesting video.



[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsE0naVApPU[/ame]

 

[ladder13]

Tons of braced pistols and new braces at the Raleigh show today. Didn't see any fire sale.

 

[locolobo56]

I don't have a dog in this fight as I lost mine in a tragic boating accident. But my son is gonna wait it out. A decision he made to remove the brace and wait it out due to recent Scotus decisions on ATF over reach.

 

[boykinlp]

On 13th this month like many others I received this notice from my gun club which made me look for more information. I tried to answer to couple of people whose questions appeared lost without answers, based on what I learned from those ATF publications. Here is that notice I got on 13th if it can help anyone else:

On January 13, 2023, the Attorney General signed ATF final rule 2021R-08F, "Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached 'Stabilizing Braces,'" amending ATF's regulations to clarify when a rifle is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. This rule is effective the date it is published in the Federal Register (likely next week).

Following are the compliance options for an individual (non-licensee) in possession of a firearm equipped with a "stabilizing brace", which is a short-barreled rifle (SBR), after the effective date of the final rule:

• Submit an ATF Form 1/EForm 1 application to register a firearm, within 120-days from the date of publication in the Federal Register, (to qualify for a free tax-stamp - normally $200).
• Permanently remove or alter the "stabilizing brace" so that it cannot be reattached and thereby removing it from regulation as a "firearm" under the National Firearms Act.
• Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm thus removing it from the provisions of the NFA.
• Turn the firearm into your local ATF office.
• Destroy the firearm. For more information go to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives - How to Properly Destroy Firearms

If you choose the third choice above, is it still legal to have the short barrel in your possession?
Larry

 

[Sistema1927]

If you choose the third choice above, is it still legal to have the short barrel in your possession?
Larry

Yes, if you have either an SBR or a pistol that it will fit on.

 

[BC38]

Yes, if you have either an SBR or a pistol that it will fit on.

...and if you don't own a legally registered SBR, or a properly configured AR pistol, then NO...

 

[CptCurl]

If it isn't an AR, not to worry.

No velcro either.

Curly

 

[zeke]

Has it hit the Federal Register yet? Maybe the "final rule" isn't as "final" as they thought.

Not according to the sight i am checking.

Federal Register
::
Agencies - Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives Bureau

And it's been over a week. Reportedly they are/were letting people apply for the exemption, before the final rule was published. Would seem to some they would publish as soon as possible.

 

[robandrew]

If it isn't an AR, not to worry.

No velcro either.

Curly

Very nice. Is that an original case? It looks old but really clean. Either way, very nice set. Your luger pic just made me realize I've got a 1920's Stevens SBR.

 

[Rodan]

And it's been over a week. Reportedly they are/were letting people apply for the exemption, before the final rule was published.

More irregularities from the ATF... imagine that.

Biggest "sting" operation ever? I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[robandrew]

1920's Stevens Target Pistol with 10" barrel and detachable shoulder stock.

Rhut Rho

 

[tlawler]

Not affecting me for anything I presently own, but I had been thinking hard about getting one of the CMMG Mk10 10mm carbines. Now I'm going to wait to see how it all plays out.

 

[scoobysnacker]

If you choose the third choice above, is it still legal to have the short barrel in your possession?
Larry

Yes, if you have either an SBR or a pistol that it will fit on.

...and if you don't own a legally registered SBR, or a properly configured AR pistol, then NO...

So the question is,

what is a properly configured AR pistol? Has that been defined?

For example- if you started your build project with a complete lower that had a brace, does that lower stay a pistol lower, or does it become a rifle now? That's if they call a braced gun a "short barreled rifle", as they propose.

If you started with a blank lower, had to add the parts kit etc, is that one still legally safe?

Now, tell me about the buffer tube required. Does it need to be a smooth pistol tube?

 

[CH4]

The world is now a much safer place…

Until the dust settles, I'll store these some place where they can't hurt anyone.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I lifted this from another forum.

........ new info keeps coming forward and now it sounds like if your IMPORTED pistol came in with a brace then it's seen as a sbr and not legal under the 922r law. Only options are to destroy or turn in to the ATF. Not sure how they would know if your Skorpion had a factory installed brace or one done at the gun store or at home.

I've seen this several places now so there must be something to it.

None of this affects me.

 

[Sistema1927]

...and if you don't own a legally registered SBR, or a properly configured AR pistol, then NO...

How does that differ from what I wrote?

 

[Sistema1927]

So the question is,

what is a properly configured AR pistol? Has that been defined?

For example- if you started your build project with a complete lower that had a brace, does that lower stay a pistol lower, or does it become a rifle now? That's if they call a braced gun a "short barreled rifle", as they propose.

If you started with a blank lower, had to add the parts kit etc, is that one still legally safe?

Now, tell me about the buffer tube required. Does it need to be a smooth pistol tube?

So, in my case, I built my pistols (5.56 and 300 BO) from stripped lowers. I completed them with bare smooth pistol buffer tubes first, and documented this fact. It was only later that I added the brace. Thus, they began life as pistols, and can be reconfigured back and forth between pistol and rifle configurations.

I did, however, purchase a complete 9mm braced pistol from PSA. It had a carbine buffer tube on it, with an adjustable brace (who were they kidding? It was a stock for all intents and purposes). For that weapon, I purchased a 16" barrel/upper, and it is now a rifle. I am guessing that in the configuration that PSA sent it to me, the ATF would claim that it was never a pistol.

The 8" 9mm upper that PSA sent me can be legally mounted on either of my AR pistols using a 9mm magwell insert, so I am still good there.

For the two pistols that I later added braces, I am now contemplating registering them as SBR's during the 120 days, but leaning towards ditching the braces and keeping them in pistol configuration. The pitfalls of going the other route are not yet known, at least to me.